Titans aftermath thoughts from BRR

[Shane]

All im saying is THAT play was a lucky play with a short pass that fitz nabbed up thanks to being WAY open. Not moaning about him needing to throw to fitz or about how it wasnt perfect, just denying other peoples opinion that it was some amazing throw.

There was NOTHING lucky about it. No matter how much you keep repeating it!

 

[BigRedRage]

There was NOTHING lucky about it. No matter how much you keep repeating it!

Awesome. Would you like to say yes there was no there wasnt all day?

You said your part, I said mine, were not ten and there is no need for a na uh ya huh argument all day.

 

[Garthshort]

Two things:
1. Our inept offense gained nearly 500 YARDS. Opposition about 250.
2. NJCardFan, you are absolutely correct in your description of the two Kolb plays with the second being an int. However, in the first that as you correctly said he should have completed to a wide open receiver, it looked to me that there was about 20 yards of green in front of him and I fully expected him to pull down the ball and run.

 

[PortlandCardFan]

Great vs good vs amazing vs lucky. Who cares. This thread is getting a little silly.

It was one of the bright spots in the game on offense and we feel the need to tear it apart? Warner and Fitz hooked up on many of these.

It's my fault!!! I take it all back!!!!

 

[Krangodnzr]

The Kolb hate on this board is almost as ridiculous as the lengths to which Skelton apologists go to defend a ridiculously bad QB (Skelton).

Both of our Qbs are terrible.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

It was an outstanding throw no questions asked.

This.

 

[Skumbag]

I find it easier to throw rolling left and throwing with the right, rather than rolling right while throwing with the right. *meh*

Reminded me of the luck Max Hall had for a game. Scramble... prayer... hallelujah! I'll take it, but that isn't going to continue through more than a couple games, let alone 16.

 

[PJ1]

It's my fault!!! I take it all back!!!!

That's ok...Just don't let it happen again.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Kolb hate on this board is almost as ridiculous as the lengths to which Skelton apologists go to defend a ridiculously bad QB (Skelton).

Both of our Qbs are terrible.

I think this is the prevailing position here. Kolb is experienced, costly, injury prone and has played poorly most of the time. Skelton is inexperienced, cheap, robust and has played poorly most of the time. The biggest difference between the two is that it is easier to find excuses for Skelton than Kolb. But, excuses aside, they are both terrible.

Steve

 

[Darkside]

I think this is the prevailing position here. Kolb is experienced, costly, injury prone and has played poorly most of the time. Skelton is inexperienced, cheap, robust and has played poorly most of the time. The biggest difference between the two is that it is easier to find excuses for Skelton than Kolb. But, excuses aside, they are both terrible.

Steve

I agree, and what bothers me most is we don't even have a QB on our roster able to manage games. Someone who can churn out a couple scores and not throw interceptions. The way our team is built right now, TO's on offense will just kill us. We have to play some type of ball-control and either score FG's or punt, with the occasional TD. It's not exciting, but our best units are Defense and Special Teams but that's all negated with TO's, especially if the Defense has to stay on the field.

 

[Duckjake]

I agree, and what bothers me most is we don't even have a QB on our roster able to manage games. Someone who can churn out a couple scores and not throw interceptions. The way our team is built right now, TO's on offense will just kill us. We have to play some type of ball-control and either score FG's or punt, with the occasional TD. It's not exciting, but our best units are Defense and Special Teams but that's all negated with TO's, especially if the Defense has to stay on the field.

And even our Special Teams are only half good. Our coverage units have been struggling since last season. Haven't seen all the game yet so can't really speak to last night but up until then they have been giving up returns well above average.

 

[Darkside]

And even our Special Teams are only half good. Our coverage units have been struggling since last season. Haven't seen all the game yet so can't really speak to last night but up until then they have been giving up returns well above average.

Yep, I agree with that too, coverage has been poor overall. I thought they were poor last night actually--the gunners took very deep, wide angles, leaving guys to run up the seams and middle. I just base the special teams comment on the hopes in PP returning and our guys blocking kicks and punts. And Zastadil wasn't bad and Feely actually showed a live leg last night.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree, and what bothers me most is we don't even have a QB on our roster able to manage games. Someone who can churn out a couple scores and not throw interceptions. The way our team is built right now, TO's on offense will just kill us. We have to play some type of ball-control and either score FG's or punt, with the occasional TD. It's not exciting, but our best units are Defense and Special Teams but that's all negated with TO's, especially if the Defense has to stay on the field.

I know it's heresy here but I really think it's time to move Fitz if we can find an excited suitor. We have probably the worst passing offense in the league and arguably the best wide receiver in the game (note I said arguably). He's worth his weight in gold for us off the field but if we can get a young talented offensive lineman and a couple of first round picks, he'd be worth even more to us. We are at least one QB and two Oline studs away from having an effective passing offense. IOW, we're miles away. Time to find a caretaker and start running the ball with Williams, Beanie, Powell, LSH and Smith.

Steve

 

[PJ1]

Yep, I agree with that too, coverage has been poor overall. I thought they were poor last night actually--the gunners took very deep, wide angles, leaving guys to run up the seams and middle. I just base the special teams comment on the hopes in PP returning and our guys blocking kicks and punts.

Some no name on the Titans almost broke one. Feely saved it by shoving the guy out of bounds. No they really aren't very good.

 

[Darkside]

Some no name on the Titans almost broke one. Feely saved it by shoving the guy out of bounds. No they really aren't very good.

I remember the play, can't argue. But there's more to ST's than covering kicks. We have a great kick-blocking group, good punter, great returner in PP, and Feely is hitting some distance kicks. It's not all lost. And even so, they're better than our offense.

 

[Darkside]

I know it's heresy here but I really think it's time to move Fitz if we can find an excited suitor. We have probably the worst passing offense in the league and arguably the best wide receiver in the game (note I said arguably). He's worth his weight in gold for us off the field but if we can get a young talented offensive lineman and a couple of first round picks, he'd be worth even more to us. We are at least one QB and two Oline studs away from having an effective passing offense. IOW, we're miles away. Time to find a caretaker and start running the ball with Williams, Beanie, Powell, LSH and Smith.

Steve

I agree we're a long ways away from being competent on offense. QB and line aren't something you fix in one season or one offseason or even two. But giving up Fitz, I can't fathom it. He's the one player giving us respectability both on the field and off.

 

[Darkside]

I know it's heresy here but I really think it's time to move Fitz if we can find an excited suitor. We have probably the worst passing offense in the league and arguably the best wide receiver in the game (note I said arguably). He's worth his weight in gold for us off the field but if we can get a young talented offensive lineman and a couple of first round picks, he'd be worth even more to us. We are at least one QB and two Oline studs away from having an effective passing offense. IOW, we're miles away. Time to find a caretaker and start running the ball with Williams, Beanie, Powell, LSH and Smith.

Steve

I have to also say, given what we're discussing, with ball-control and trying to shore up the Oline, that getting Floyd was simply stupid and a total over-estimation of our QB's and Oline. Wasted #1. Even if he's good, he won't see the ball. I was totally wrong about that pick. At the time, I thought Massie and Snyder would shore up the Oline and I thought Kolb and Skelton would secure the QB, so it looked good. In hindsight though it's a wasted pick, we should have used it on the Oline.

 

[JeffGollin]

What I took out of last night's game was that both QB's are closer together in effectiveness than anyone may have previously thought - the dominant variable influencing QB play being the O Line.

We won't know til we see Skelton operate behind the same OL that protected Kolb, but my gut tells me that Young/Batiste is like a light switch. Put in Young and either QB will suck. Replace him with Batiste and both QB's look much better. On? Off! On? Off! It will prove correct every time.

Not that either QB is without faults, but I think they can be fixed. What's become more and more obvious is that, the lousier our OL play, the more often we're likely to see our QBs screw up. And vice versa.

With Young no longer at LT, I have hope that both QB's will work on their deficiencies and eventually prevail (If only the progress could be quicker).

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree we're a long ways away from being competent on offense. QB and line aren't something you fix in one season or one offseason or even two. But giving up Fitz, I can't fathom it. He's the one player giving us respectability both on the field and off.

Maybe I'm overreacting but based on what we've seen this preseason, I'm not sure he's going to give us all that much on the field. He's an incredible ambassador for our team but the more we fail to get the ball to him the worse we're going to look in the national media. I would prefer to keep him and find another way to solve our problems but I just don't think they are fixable without a major overhaul. He's the one piece that we have that could bring back everything we need.

Steve

 

[Darkside]

Maybe I'm overreacting but based on what we've seen this preseason, I'm not sure he's going to give us all that much on the field. He's an incredible ambassador for our team but the more we fail to get the ball to him the worse we're going to look in the national media. I would prefer to keep him and find another way to solve our problems but I just don't think they are fixable without a major overhaul. He's the one piece that we have that could bring back everything we need.

Steve

I hear what you're saying, but I personally wouldn't do it. They were actually talking about him on Sirius today and said through his # of seasons, so far, compared to the great Jerry Rice, he has more catches, by far, at the same point in his career. No matter who throws to him, he gets his #'s. Doesn't matter if it's a craptacular QB like Dewreck or Hall or Leinart or Kolb or Skelton. A HOF player is going to make plays, no matter who's around him. I also think he gets other players to come here, you can't underestimate that. And the work he does in the community sells tickets and improves the community as a whole. I admire him as a person and player and there's no way I'd ever give him up.

Your point is valid, I just personally wouldn't do it.

 

[Cardiac]

I know it's heresy here but I really think it's time to move Fitz if we can find an excited suitor. We have probably the worst passing offense in the league and arguably the best wide receiver in the game (note I said arguably). He's worth his weight in gold for us off the field but if we can get a young talented offensive lineman and a couple of first round picks, he'd be worth even more to us. We are at least one QB and two Oline studs away from having an effective passing offense. IOW, we're miles away. Time to find a caretaker and start running the ball with Williams, Beanie, Powell, LSH and Smith.

Steve

Trading Fitz would gut this teams chemistry and belief that the organization wants to win. In a vacuum I get what you are saying but the repercussions would far out weigh any positives (IMHO).

It's preseason and we all know the coaches don't game plan and obviously don't worry about getting Fitz touches.

Once the season starts we will see Fitz being Fitz and be thrilled to still have arguably the best Cardinal ever on the team.

The performance by the Oline against the Titans would scar and scare the bravest of souls. Thing is Young will not be the starting LT this year and Batiste was at least servicable.

My biggest concern remains the QB position.

 

[Cardiac]

A reminder to all that it's preseason and what you see now on ST's is a lot of youngins getting a chance to prove they can make the team. Our coverage units will improve when the "starters" on ST's are in and actual game plans are put into place.

We struggled last year because our punter wasn't very good. This year he has his mojo back and if he keeps it we will be more than good.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Trading Fitz would gut this teams chemistry and belief that the organization wants to win. In a vacuum I get what you are saying but the repercussions would far out weigh any positives (IMHO).

It's preseason and we all know the coaches don't game plan and obviously don't worry about getting Fitz touches.

Once the season starts we will see Fitz being Fitz and be thrilled to still have arguably the best Cardinal ever on the team.

The performance by the Oline against the Titans would scar and scare the bravest of souls. Thing is Young will not be the starting LT this year and Batiste was at least servicable.

My biggest concern remains the QB position.

I love Fitz but keeping him is not a sound football decision IMO. It's like buying a Lamborghini to go off-roading. Keeping him might be the right move for all the other reasons that makes Larry such a special asset but from a purely football standpoint he has more value in trade than he does as a player IMO. Just to be clear, the reason I believe this is solely because of our inability to use him fully.

I know this is preseason but I'm really concerned by our Oline. I know that's true of all of us but I think it's even worse than most here seem to. I'm not convinced that the Oline improved all that much when Young went to the bench and I'm not convinced that this same line all of a sudden improved when Skelton replaced Kolb the week before. I think the improvement both weeks was the result of coaching decisions (theirs, not ours) rather than improved play. With Levi Brown, we had one of the worst lines in the game. Without him, we will approach historical ineptness (think 76 Bucs).

Steve

 

[Pariah]

I agree with the notion that it's kind of ridiculous to build a team around a WR as opposed to having a stud WR that compliments a QB or RB.

But, there are a ton of reasons to NOT trade Fitz. Mostly, though, this isn't basketball. We 're not going to be able to rebuild based solely on what we get from him, and even if we could, that's a long-term process.

Keeping Fitz isn't preventing us from building a good line or finding a professional QB. It's the ineptness of the Cardinals to find and coach the talent at those positions, IMO.

 

[Cardiac]

I love Fitz but keeping him is not a sound football decision IMO. It's like buying a Lamborghini to go off-roading. Keeping him might be the right move for all the other reasons that makes Larry such a special asset but from a purely football standpoint he has more value in trade than he does as a player IMO. Just to be clear, the reason I believe this is solely because of our inability to use him fully.

I know this is preseason but I'm really concerned by our Oline. I know that's true of all of us but I think it's even worse than most here seem to. I'm not convinced that the Oline improved all that much when Young went to the bench and I'm not convinced that this same line all of a sudden improved when Skelton replaced Kolb the week before. I think the improvement both weeks was the result of coaching decisions (theirs, not ours) rather than improved play. With Levi Brown, we had one of the worst lines in the game. Without him, we will approach historical ineptness (think 76 Bucs).

Steve

I almost never disagree with you Steve but I can't get behind this idea.

Fitz is a once in a lifetime player and not only the face of our franchise but one of them for the NFL as well.

The Cards need to draft a QB, OT and OLBer next year and the glaring holes are fixed.