TNF: Denver vs. Carolina

[Dback Jon]

I don't like either team, but this board would be in meltdown if Carson was taking the hits to the head that Cam took last night. That was embarrassing for the league.

We would be melting down if BA called those plays for Palmer...

 

[SO91]

We would be melting down if BA called those plays for Palmer...

Well yeah. Who wants to see old ass Carson Palmer trying to be a running QB.

 

[MrYeahBut]

I don't like either team, but this board would be in meltdown if Carson was taking the hits to the head that Cam took last night. That was embarrassing for the league.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17500234/nfl-blame-officials-panthers-failing-protect-cam-newton

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well yeah. Who wants to see old ass Carson Palmer trying to be a running QB.

I would have liked to see it in our last game against Carolina.

 

[nashman]

Hits to the head happen, Carolina should be held accountable too for leaving him in the game when he was clearly shaken. Most players in the sideline getting concussion protocol, it was a complete joke they left him in just trying to win with no regard to his saftey! With that said if he didn't act like an ass so much rubbing in teams faces with his bs superman crap maybe teams wouldn't be trying to knock the piss out of him. Denver was clearly not favored in this matchup and played tough enough to get the win, and for a QB making his first start simien did not look bad at all very poised under duress many times. As someone else said looks better than Stanton, and way more accurate throwing the bal lol. Denver is still their division winner IMO.

 

[jbeecham]

The last hit on Cam was pretty intentional, but a lot of the earlier hits didn't look bad.

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[nashman]

The last hit didn't even look like head hunting, was that guy going to light him up...sure but can lobbed a throw away at no one and sort of lowered himself into the head contact IMO. If he remained upright it would have been a hard hit to his shoulder at worse. But it happens especially when you try to hit the guy low and miss all the time. He was just teed up there to get smoked and he knew it so threw it away and tried to brace unfortunately downward which resulted in a tough shot.

 

[Russ Smith]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17500234/nfl-blame-officials-panthers-failing-protect-cam-newton

I googled the rule this mornign and there's nothing in there that says the refs can not call it if they think the guy threw the ball to avoid getting hit with a cheapshot. It actually says outside the tackles throws ball away under imminent threat of being tackled , the ball has to reach or cross the LOS when it lands(to account for out of bounds) and it has to be uncatchable. That play his throw was all of that, uncatchable, under imminent threat, didn't reach the LOS. By rule it's grounding.

The rule could be changed but if they do that they better account for what Newton and Wilson do all the time when near the sideline, just throw the ball out of bounds forward so it crosses the LOS. That violates the spirit of the rule just as much IMO.

There is no perfect solution.

And yes the writer is 100% right, the panthers should be fined for letting Newton stay in the game.

 

[SO91]

Hits to the head happen, but QBs are treated differently. Some may not like it, but it's the reality of the game today. Those were hit to the helmet that are typically flagged. A D-Lineman's hand can barely touch the QBs helmet and it gets called.

 

[crisper57]

And yes the writer is 100% right, the panthers should be fined for letting Newton stay in the game.

Not the Panthers call. The NFL has an independent neurologist that can call for a player to undergo the protocol at any time. This individual can supersede a team keeping a player in the game. They did not do that. I would like to know why.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

The last hit didn't even look like head hunting, was that guy going to light him up...sure but can lobbed a throw away at no one and sort of lowered himself into the head contact IMO. If he remained upright it would have been a hard hit to his shoulder at worse. But it happens especially when you try to hit the guy low and miss all the time. He was just teed up there to get smoked and he knew it so threw it away and tried to brace unfortunately downward which resulted in a tough shot.

Do you mean the launching by #26? That was definitely a headhunting foul - defensive player launches off the ground and upward towards the head, if Cam didn't lower as much, he might have taken it on the chin. You don't tackle someone by going up on their shoulder.

It was a reckless play by #26, should be a hefty fine. The LB did the same - left his feet on an upward trajectory towards Cam. Should be a hefty fine and if the officials don't reel in this type of headhunting by Denver - then all their talk of player safety is a farce.

 

[Russ Smith]

Do you mean the launching by #26? That was definitely a headhunting foul - defensive player launches off the ground and upward towards the head, if Cam didn't lower as much, he might have taken it on the chin. You don't tackle someone by going up on their shoulder.

It was a reckless play by #26, should be a hefty fine. The LB did the same - left his feet on an upward trajectory towards Cam. Should be a hefty fine and if the officials don't reel in this type of headhunting by Denver - then all their talk of player safety is a farce.

agreed and the talk is a farce, if it wasn't, cam Newton wouldn't have been allowed to stay in that game.

he would have been on the sideline answering how many fingers is this and proving he didn't have a concussion.

That the NFL is saying an independent expert had time to evaluate him, without being down on the field, and concluded he was ok is preposterous.

They might be right, he might not have a concussion, but they didn't have anywhere near enough time or access to make that conclusion.

 

[SO91]

Do you mean the launching by #26? That was definitely a headhunting foul - defensive player launches off the ground and upward towards the head, if Cam didn't lower as much, he might have taken it on the chin. You don't tackle someone by going up on their shoulder.

It was a reckless play by #26, should be a hefty fine. The LB did the same - left his feet on an upward trajectory towards Cam. Should be a hefty fine and if the officials don't reel in this type of headhunting by Denver - then all their talk of player safety is a farce.

Yep. I don't know what game or replay that dude was watching, but those were clear as day. Should have been flagged and ought to be fined. I'm unsure on the rule, but on that last questionable hit, can you tackle a guy low and high like Denver did, when out of the pocket?

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[Kel Varnsen]

Not the Panthers call. The NFL has an independent neurologist that can call for a player to undergo the protocol at any time. This individual can supersede a team keeping a player in the game. They did not do that. I would like to know why.

IIRC, Collinsworth said the opposite was true.

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[crisper57]

IIRC, Collinsworth said the opposite was true.

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Here is what the NFL said:

“There was communication between medical personnel on the Carolina sideline, including the unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant, and the two independent certified athletic trainer spotters in the booth,” the league said in a statement. “During stoppage in play while on-field officials were in the process of administrating penalties, the unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant and team physician requested video from the spotters and reviewed the play. They concluded there were no indications of a concussion that would require further evaluation and the removal of the player from the game.”

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Yep. I don't know what game or replay that dude was watching, but those were clear as day. Should have been flagged and ought to be fined. I'm unsure on the rule, but on that last questionable hit, can you tackle a guy low and high like Denver did, when out of the pocket?

I think the low/high tackling is legal (low/high blocks on linemen are illegal under certain circumstances, but I don't know specifics)

Sadly - Von Miller's head shot, which appears to be incidental as he is trying to make a play - gets lumped in with the two dirty shots. Actually a good example of the difference of a dirty head shot versus playing intensely.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Here is what the NFL said:

“There was communication between medical personnel on the Carolina sideline, including the unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant, and the two independent certified athletic trainer spotters in the booth,” the league said in a statement. “During stoppage in play while on-field officials were in the process of administrating penalties, the unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant and team physician requested video from the spotters and reviewed the play. They concluded there were no indications of a concussion that would require further evaluation and the removal of the player from the game.”

Was that in response to a question about who has the final decision-making authority?

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[Brian in Mesa]

Seems like Cam has matured some since last year...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/panthers/2016/09/09/cam-newton-hits-head-helmet/90110158/

Newton said he didn’t feel he was being targeted and dodged a question about whether he received fair and adequate protection from Steratore’s crew. “It’s not my job to question the officials,” Newton said. “I really like this officiating crew. So, it wasn’t something that I know they did intentionally. But it’s not fun getting hit in the head.”

“I try to warn the refs every time I do get hit in the head. But if the flag is not called, then it’s OK,” Newton said. “We just have to find ways to move the ball and not stay so stagnant for so long periods of time.”

 

[crisper57]

Was that in response to a question about who has the final decision-making authority?

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The question was why he didn't undergo testing right then. The NFL says the medical staff didn't see a reason for him to be evaluated.

The rule is a bit muddy. Essentially, 2 certified athletic trainers (spotters) and an independent neurologist can call for a player to undergo the protocol testing if they deem it appropriate. However, the onus is on the teams to pull the player from the game once they are informed that a player should be evaluated. If they don't they can face punishments including fines and loss of draft picks.

The Panthers were never informed by medical professionals to evaluate Newton.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/213596/faq-detailing-the-nfls-concussion-protocol

 

[jbeecham]

IIRC, Collinsworth said the opposite was true.

Collinsworth said that the team's medical staff has the final say on whether or not the player can go back into the game, but the decision to check on if a player has a concussion is made by an independant party.

 

[ajcardfan]

The question was why he didn't undergo testing right then. The NFL says the medical staff didn't see a reason for him to be evaluated.

The rule is a bit muddy. Essentially, 2 certified athletic trainers (spotters) and an independent neurologist can call for a player to undergo the protocol testing if they deem it appropriate. However, the onus is on the teams to pull the player from the game once they are informed that a player should be evaluated. If they don't they can face punishments including fines and loss of draft picks.

The Panthers were never informed by medical professionals to evaluate Newton.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/213596/faq-detailing-the-nfls-concussion-protocol

They blew it. The NFL neurologist did, and the Panthers did. It's not like it wasn't replayed over and over while they discussed the flags. If they really expect the public to believe the game is getting much safer, they cannot screw up like that.

It wasn't as horrible as the Michigan QB who could barely stand after a blow to the head and stayed in the game two years ago, but it was seen by a much bigger audience.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

So Cam took a hit, or two. Big deal, it's football and things like that happen. I don't think any of it was intentional. These guys are moving at high speed and the slightest change of Newton's body/head level can cause a hit to the head.

 

[Mitch]

So Cam took a hit, or two. Big deal, it's football and things like that happen. I don't think any of it was intentional. These guys are moving at high speed and the slightest change of Newton's body/head level can cause a hit to the head.

Yes...but also when QBs are a runner the way Cam Newton is---and tough runner to pull down---refs are less likely to throw flags than they are with strictly passing QBs who typically elect to slide.

 

[Russ Smith]

They blew it. The NFL neurologist did, and the Panthers did. It's not like it wasn't replayed over and over while they discussed the flags. If they really expect the public to believe the game is getting much safer, they cannot screw up like that.

It wasn't as horrible as the Michigan QB who could barely stand after a blow to the head and stayed in the game two years ago, but it was seen by a much bigger audience.

Yep. I just watched Concussion over the 3 day weekend too. The NFL has to quit talking out the side of their mouth either protect the players or protect the money. I get that Newton is a great player and wouldn't want to come out but if by staying in that game he took another big hit and got seriously injured, would that really be worth it to him and the NFL?

I don't know what the actual rule is but IMO either the Panthers should be fined, or the NFL should come out and say we screwed up, he should have been pulled and evaluated, we dropped the ball.

 

[Mitch]

The key to the Broncos' win, imo, was Gary Kubiak drafting and inserting a FB (rookie Andy Janovich from Nebraska), which enabled RB C.J. Anderson just enough of a crease and wiggle room to make big plays. Did anyone see the FB isolation block Janovich made on LB Thomas Davis that sprung Anderson on a 10 yard run which All-World LB Luke Keuchly had to chase from behind? Wow. It was textbook power football. And with a young QB like Trevor Siemian, getting key yards on the ground versus the Panthers' front 7 was huge!

Plus, Kubiak having the cajones to go for it on 4th and 1/2 a yard at the 2 yard line. Anderson stuck the run right in there and scored the go-ahead TD moments later.

Interestingly, Cris Collinsworth pointed out that Kubiak wasn't able to insert a FB last year because Peyton Manning didn't want one. Sound familiar? Well, who was PM's first QB coach? BA. And hopefully BA saw last night's game and realized that if there was ever a time to use a FB it is versus stout front 7's like the Panthers' and their in particular because of how lights-out Keuchly and Davis are when you don't send direct blockers after them.