Today’s Thought - Hopkins

[Dr. Jones]

Yea, I ain’t on that boat of thinking we’re not drafting Will Anderson.

I'm with you...... I just have no reason to trust them right now. I'll be ok if we draft Carter, but if we have either on the board and and don't one, I'll be screaming Levi Brown from the rooftops.

 

[BritCard]

So should we just shut down the entire board until the season starts? Or is the board only limited to exaltations and thumbs up over signing a plethora of camp bodies, some of which are the worst in the league?

Alternatively, when can dissenting opinions be raised if you don’t want the board shut down until the season starts?

The options aren't shut down the board or rage and complain about absolutely everything.

There are dozens, if not hundreds of people here being patient and understanding that there is going to be some pain before success. Which is completely understandable given that you got exactly what you asked for.

And then there is about a 10 person minority being ridiculous and moaning about every tiny thing. Let's not pretend it's reasonable behavior and there is no other option.

 

[Stout]

The options aren't shut down the board or rage and complain about absolutely everything.

There are dozens, if not hundreds of people here being patient and understanding that there is going to be some pain before success. Which is completely understandable given that you got exactly what you asked for.

And then there is about a 10 person minority being ridiculous and moaning about every tiny thing. Let's not pretend it's reasonable behavior and there is no other option.

Okay, at this point you have to be deliberately lying to insult people. Folks have repeated themselves dozens of times to assert that they are fine with the pain of a lousy 2023 because they know it has to be done. Just because they don't like how the team is doing it doesn't mean they are whining about "getting what they asked for." Stop trying (sadly) to deliberately misrepresent what people are saying. Just because they disagree with how the team's approach is being handled--and just because we disagree with you, specifically, doesn't mean you get to just make up a bunch of crap about folks.

Speak to your own opinion, @BritCard. Don't lie about ours.

 

[BritCard]

Okay, at this point you have to be deliberately lying to insult people. Folks have repeated themselves dozens of times to assert that they are fine with the pain of a lousy 2023 because they know it has to be done. Just because they don't like how the team is doing it doesn't mean they are whining about "getting what they asked for." Stop trying (sadly) to deliberately misrepresent what people are saying. Just because they disagree with how the team's approach is being handled--and just because we disagree with you, specifically, doesn't mean you get to just make up a bunch of crap about folks.

Speak to your own opinion, @BritCard. Don't lie about ours.

This is nonsense. You are assuming your position is the same as their position. It isn't. You might be fine with some pain but many of them have expressed that 2023 doesn't have to be a painful year.

I have specifically mentioned you a number have times and that you are realistic about 2023 so it's odd that you would lump yourself in with people that have expressed very different views.

There are a whole bunch of people complaining over nothing. The Ertz/Conner thing they are 100% wrong about. The restructures and June 1st's they are 100% wrong about. Complaining about guys signed for vet min with no guarantees that might have upside is completely futile. And attacking Monti based on this poor foundation is just ridiculous.

So yeah, wasn't really referring to you. Not sure why you felt the need to defend some people that haven't expressed the same views as you.

 

[Stout]

This is nonsense. You are assuming your position is the same as their position. It isn't. You might be fine with some pain but many of them have expressed that 2023 doesn't have to be a painful year.

I have specifically mentioned you a number have times and that you are realistic about 2023 so it's odd that you would lump yourself in with people that have expressed very different views.

There are a whole bunch of people complaining over nothing. The Ertz/Conner thing they are 100% wrong about. The restructures and June 1st's they are 100% wrong about. Complaining about guys signed for vet min with no guarantees that might have upside is completely futile. And attacking Monti based on this poor foundation is just ridiculous.

So yeah, wasn't really referring to you. Not sure why you felt the need to defend some people that haven't expressed the same views as you.

I have read maybe 1 or 2 people on this board talking about 2023 doesn't have to be a painful year. The overwhelming majority of those dissatisfied with Monti and Co's approach know that 2023 is going to suck and that it was unavoidable. I'm glad you aren't lumping me in with unrealistic expectations in 2023, but I'm curious as to who you think, other than one are two, have those unrealistic expectations.

 

[BritCard]

I have read maybe 1 or 2 people on this board talking about 2023 doesn't have to be a painful year. The overwhelming majority of those dissatisfied with Monti and Co's approach know that 2023 is going to suck and that it was unavoidable. I'm glad you aren't lumping me in with unrealistic expectations in 2023, but I'm curious as to who you think, other than one are two, have those unrealistic expectations.

If they aren't talking specifically about competing in 2023 they are talking about making moves that make no sense or that the moves that have been made make no sense.

There's hundreds of posts on Conner and Ertz or cap moves being used to criticise the FO (already) which are completely wrong. People are arguing we should have brought in a RT at $20m a year who's been dog **** in the NFL because he's young. They are complaining about bringing in guys like Daley and Collier on vet min deals with no guarantees to see if we might be able to squeeze something more out of them.

Even if they expect 2023 to be a wash these people are painting it as if we can't even tank right. It's just negativity for the sake of negativity.

You yourself was complaining we hadn't brought in players that don't exist (young, cheap, good, long term) and when I asked you which players that covered you didn't reply.

It's one thing to say you don't like something. It's something else to fill every thread on every topic with over the top negativity to the point people are already saying the GM won't last until 2024.

If there were people here being over the top positive saying we were going to win the superbowl in 2023 you would call it out as nuts. This is just the opposite of that. The negativity from some has been massively over the top.

 

[Dr. Jones]

It's just negativity for the sake of negativity.

Dude. You may think you know, but as usual you have zero clue. We've had 11 playoff seasons in NFL history. Not the super bowl era. NFL HISTORY. That places us 4th just ahead of the Jags, Texans, and Panthers. All three are the most recent expansion teams while we are the LONGEST RUNNING NFL FRANCHISE IN LEAGUE HISTORY. Source

Many here are long time forum posters. Are insanely dedicated to this team. And have done irrational things to prove their love of the franchise. Hell..... I have TWO Beanie Wells Jerseys in my closet and a Thomas Jones somewhere that doesn't fit anymore. We have every right to use our historical perspective if we realize that we want this more than our owner does. It's really that simple to me. You can say what you want, hurl all the rainbows and unicorns you want, and even...... even....... LIE to prove your points. It won't make one difference to me. I know what I am looking at and can diagnose **** when I smell it.

They don't need to do it my way. They don't even need to tank IMO.

What they need to do is pick a lane and stick to it. I'm fine with a tank..... if you want to gather resources, fix your cap, and plan towards 2024 then fine. Do it. Gardeck and others probably should be released.

If you want to win, or atleast try to win, fine. Then do it. Just use your dollars wisely. Let's start with a contract for Murphy, Allen, and possibly Isaiahs extension.

Pick a lane. Be honest about it. And do it. That's all I ask. I'll have fun at the games with my friends regardless. And I met most of them on this board and will meet the rest at some point. So lay off about peoples intentions, or fandom's please.

 

[PJ1]

The options aren't shut down the board or rage and complain about absolutely everything.

There are dozens, if not hundreds of people here being patient and understanding that there is going to be some pain before success. Which is completely understandable given that you got exactly what you asked for.

And then there is about a 10 person minority being ridiculous and moaning about every tiny thing. Let's not pretend it's reasonable behavior and there is no other option.

Why do you believe it is your job to tell people what to post? Who are you to call people ridiculous? So reasonable behavior is agreeing with you? If you don’t like a posters opinion state yours and move on. That would define reasonable behavior.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Dude. You may think you know, but as usual you have zero clue. We've had 11 playoff seasons in NFL history. Not the super bowl era. NFL HISTORY. That places us 4th just ahead of the Jags, Texans, and Panthers. All three are the most recent expansion teams while we are the LONGEST RUNNING NFL FRANCHISE IN LEAGUE HISTORY. Source

Many here are long time forum posters. Are insanely dedicated to this team. And have done irrational things to prove their love of the franchise. Hell..... I have TWO Beanie Wells Jerseys in my closet and a Thomas Jones somewhere that doesn't fit anymore. We have every right to use our historical perspective if we realize that we want this more than our owner does. It's really that simple to me. You can say what you want, hurl all the rainbows and unicorns you want, and even...... even....... LIE to prove your points. It won't make one difference to me. I know what I am looking at and can diagnose **** when I smell it.

They don't need to do it my way. They don't even need to tank IMO.

What they need to do is pick a lane and stick to it. I'm fine with a tank..... if you want to gather resources, fix your cap, and plan towards 2024 then fine. Do it. Gardeck and others probably should be released.

If you want to win, or atleast try to win, fine. Then do it. Just use your dollars wisely. Let's start with a contract for Murphy, Allen, and possibly Isaiahs extension.

Pick a lane. Be honest about it. And do it. That's all I ask. I'll have fun at the games with my friends regardless. And I met most of them on this board and will meet the rest at some point. So lay off about peoples intentions, or fandom's please.

lol I just recently (finally) donated my Kolb jersey

 

[DVontel]

I think I’m the only one that doesn’t count history prior to Arizona lol

 

[BirdGangThing]

I think I’m the only one that doesn’t count history prior to Arizona lol

Nah I'm with you on that Cardinals never existed before Arizona

 

[Jetstream Green]

This is certainly the positive view of the situation. Last year's draft day trades of AJ Brown and Hollywood show that these deals don't need to get done during FA.

Another option is that the FO overplayed its hand while other teams filled their WR vacancies, and now they have significantly less leverage than they anticipated. They could just run DHop out there with Colt McCoy to start the season, but messing with a disgruntled star like that is a dangerous game if you want to attract top-end talent in the future.

I think this is twofold. Yes, it can possibly affect the attraction level of a top tier free agent signing with the Cardinals, but it can also set a precedent for a franchise which can also deter players from pushing demands too far once under contract. I think a majority of the contract problems when under Keim was not just the money, but the fact Keim did not respect the players and probably did lie to Peterson and others. I know we try on this forum to be respectful, but Keim was an alcoholic, an addict, and addicts lie constantly even when not aware
Running an NFL team I imagine is a complex demanding job. I know as a professor in a classroom, one sets objectives which have to be equal for all but each student is their own individual and you have to treat their characters differently to reach them and even get mutual respect. Then you have a guy like Keim who is fighting these demons of his and eventually probably was missing totally in action which has been said as much by reports
I think holding onto a player because you want more for him in a trade, also shows the player that you think he has immense worth and though he might want to be moved, there is personal respect in that. This falls apart though when the GM is scatterbrained and does this in a manner which is dysfunctional, were his past stance on a player changes and there is no trust

 

[oaken1]

I think I’m the only one that doesn’t count history prior to Arizona lol

I like History. But with a sports team a ten year rolling window seems to make more sense to me.
I am also a Raiders fan... The Silver and Black has a case full of Lombardi trophies.... but they suck ass, and have fielded a bottom three defense for 12 years straight. What Jim Plunkett did has zero bearing on anything they do today.
Dallas... boy it sure was nice when those guys finally stopped bragging about super bowls.
Chicago, St Louis, and Phoenix mean nothing in regards to the Arizona Cardinals. At this point the team Denny Green built that Whis took to the Super Bowl also means nothing.

 

[BritCard]

Dude. You may think you know, but as usual you have zero clue. We've had 11 playoff seasons in NFL history. Not the super bowl era. NFL HISTORY. That places us 4th just ahead of the Jags, Texans, and Panthers. All three are the most recent expansion teams while we are the LONGEST RUNNING NFL FRANCHISE IN LEAGUE HISTORY. Source

Many here are long time forum posters. Are insanely dedicated to this team. And have done irrational things to prove their love of the franchise. Hell..... I have TWO Beanie Wells Jerseys in my closet and a Thomas Jones somewhere that doesn't fit anymore. We have every right to use our historical perspective if we realize that we want this more than our owner does. It's really that simple to me. You can say what you want, hurl all the rainbows and unicorns you want, and even...... even....... LIE to prove your points. It won't make one difference to me. I know what I am looking at and can diagnose **** when I smell it.

They don't need to do it my way. They don't even need to tank IMO.

What they need to do is pick a lane and stick to it. I'm fine with a tank..... if you want to gather resources, fix your cap, and plan towards 2024 then fine. Do it. Gardeck and others probably should be released.

If you want to win, or atleast try to win, fine. Then do it. Just use your dollars wisely. Let's start with a contract for Murphy, Allen, and possibly Isaiahs extension.

Pick a lane. Be honest about it. And do it. That's all I ask. I'll have fun at the games with my friends regardless. And I met most of them on this board and will meet the rest at some point. So lay off about peoples intentions, or fandom's please.

How dedicated you are doesn't absolve people being nuts. Going on multi page rants about how the FO sucks for not cutting Conner and Ertz when it loses us money is just manufacturing grievance. People writing Monti off already when they it's a week into FA and we can't see 5% of what is going on is just irrational. People are complaining about roster construction when there's probably 20 moves left to go. They barely started.

Constantly finding uninformed reasons to bag on the team you support is not dedication to anything but moaning.

They have a lane. What they are doing seems pretty clear and consistent to me. Moves like cutting Gardeck or trading Ertz would come after the draft and Allen and Murphy have a say in where they sign and didn't want to hang around for another losing season.

You accept that we are tanking, but you can't see why Allen and Murphy might not want to do that?

 

[BritCard]

I like History. But with a sports team a ten year rolling window seems to make more sense to me.
I am also a Raiders fan... The Silver and Black has a case full of Lombardi trophies.... but they suck ass, and have fielded a bottom three defense for 12 years straight. What Jim Plunkett did has zero bearing on anything they do today.
Dallas... boy it sure was nice when those guys finally stopped bragging about super bowls.
Chicago, St Louis, and Phoenix mean nothing in regards to the Arizona Cardinals. At this point the team Denny Green built that Whis took to the Super Bowl also means nothing.

Yup. The constant wallowing in ancient history is boring and pointless.

The Rams sucked for a good 10 years before McVay got there. Do people think the 10 Rams fan that exist were bringing that up when they were winning divisions and superbowls?

I think even a 10 year window is too much in the NFL. You can go from garbage to the Superbowl in 3 years.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Really don't get it. Did people really expect Monti to come in and just be taller Steve Keim? Blow all the cap on bandaids. Do nothing to sort out the dire mess the roster is in?

Did they think he was going to wave his magic wand and just put everything right with no pain?

This board is historically full of hot takes and bad takes. There's nothing to even judge yet to render a take, yet here we are...

 

[Dr. Jones]

I like History. But with a sports team a ten year rolling window seems to make more sense to me.
I am also a Raiders fan... The Silver and Black has a case full of Lombardi trophies.... but they suck ass, and have fielded a bottom three defense for 12 years straight. What Jim Plunkett did has zero bearing on anything they do today.
Dallas... boy it sure was nice when those guys finally stopped bragging about super bowls.
Chicago, St Louis, and Phoenix mean nothing in regards to the Arizona Cardinals. At this point the team Denny Green built that Whis took to the Super Bowl also means nothing.

Yup. The constant wallowing in ancient history is boring and pointless.

The Rams sucked for a good 10 years before McVay got there. Do people think the 10 Rams fan that exist were bringing that up when they were winning divisions and superbowls?

I think even a 10 year window is too much in the NFL. You can go from garbage to the Superbowl in 3 years.

Sounds good.

Last 10 years: We are 15th in total wins tied with the Bengals & Panthers.
Seahawks: 3rd. Rams 12th. Niners 1 game behind us in wins but tied for 19th.

Last 5 years: We are 26th in total wins tied with Houston and Washington.
Rams are 6th. Seahawks are 7th. Niners are 12th.

Last 20 years we are 23rd in total wins.
Rams are 24th. Hawks are 6th and Niners are 20th.

One thing has remained the same from year one to now. The name Bidwill.

I'll continue to root for this team and be fired up for this team and be insanely pumped in the good times, but my expectations of that are becoming less and less as I age.

I mean..... The data doesn't lie my friends. And this data has a clear and recognizable pattern.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

God, please teleport me to April 27th 2023 at 7 pm CST. This is sooooo exhausting.

 

[PACardsFan]

Yes. signing the cheapest Cardinals available and some of the worst players in the league definitely builds a good culture.

This is straight 2003 “build the belly of the beast” stuff that littered the board back then.

What has damaged this team down the stretch each of the last 3 seasons was a lack of depth when injuries came & crappy coaching on both sides of the ball. Hopefully, the Gannon regime fixes the coaching failures & building a higher floor helps to avoid being completely derailed due to injuries, because injuries always happen. Better coaching, better depth & better drafting are the key. If we don’t draft significantly better, then it’s all for nothing.

 

[phillycard]

Dude. You may think you know, but as usual you have zero clue. We've had 11 playoff seasons in NFL history. Not the super bowl era. NFL HISTORY. That places us 4th just ahead of the Jags, Texans, and Panthers. All three are the most recent expansion teams while we are the LONGEST RUNNING NFL FRANCHISE IN LEAGUE HISTORY. Source

Many here are long time forum posters. Are insanely dedicated to this team. And have done irrational things to prove their love of the franchise. Hell..... I have TWO Beanie Wells Jerseys in my closet and a Thomas Jones somewhere that doesn't fit anymore. We have every right to use our historical perspective if we realize that we want this more than our owner does. It's really that simple to me. You can say what you want, hurl all the rainbows and unicorns you want, and even...... even....... LIE to prove your points. It won't make one difference to me. I know what I am looking at and can diagnose **** when I smell it.

They don't need to do it my way. They don't even need to tank IMO.

What they need to do is pick a lane and stick to it. I'm fine with a tank..... if you want to gather resources, fix your cap, and plan towards 2024 then fine. Do it. Gardeck and others probably should be released.

If you want to win, or atleast try to win, fine. Then do it. Just use your dollars wisely. Let's start with a contract for Murphy, Allen, and possibly Isaiahs extension.

Pick a lane. Be honest about it. And do it. That's all I ask. I'll have fun at the games with my friends regardless. And I met most of them on this board and will meet the rest at some point. So lay off about peoples intentions, or fandom's please.

*tear shed* This is epic level posting my brother.

 

[imaCafan]

I think we keep DHop and figure out how to make him happy and good for us too.

 

[CardNots]

Constantly finding uninformed reasons to bag on the team you support is not dedication to anything but moaning.

people need to vent, better they do it here

 

[PACardsFan]

I think we keep DHop and figure out how to make him happy and good for us too.

Hop is going to be 31. He’s trying to max out his money haul, win a SB, and pave his way to the HOF. That’s not happening in AZ. There’s no middle ground available between him and the Cardinals that will satisfy his needs at this stage in his career. Time for both parties to move on. This is going to happen. The only question is when.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Fact check - just making sure here

Was reading some old stuff and ran across this little tidbit

"Hopkins — who led the team in receiving yards with 717 in only nine games in 2022 — is signed through the 2024 season and has a full no-trade clause, so he has control on where he plays next year."

the piece later goes on to mention the suspension so are we 100% on Dhop losing his no trade clause due to said suspension?

Report: Arizona Cardinals' Monti Ossenfort to meet with DeAndre Hopkins

Cardinals GM Monti Ossenfort and DeAndre Hopkins plan to sit down and discuss the WR's future with the franchise, Ian Rapoport reported.

arizonasports.com

 

[Dayman]

Fact check - just making sure here

Was reading some old stuff and ran across this little tidbit

"Hopkins — who led the team in receiving yards with 717 in only nine games in 2022 — is signed through the 2024 season and has a full no-trade clause, so he has control on where he plays next year."

the piece later goes on to mention the suspension so are we 100% on Dhop losing his no trade clause due to said suspension?

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ld-be-on-new-teams-via-trade-as-cap-casualty/

The no-trade clause in Hopkins' contract voided when he was suspended for the first six games of the 2022 season because of violating of the league's performance enhancing substances policy.