Tom Brady

[Arizona's Finest]

I said it 3 years ago, and I'll say it again: when it's all said and done, Brady will be an all-time top 5 QB, maybe even top 3.

LOL - what exactly is left to measure with Brady? Longevity?

There are a lot of times in sports we rush to annoit some one "the next..." or "the greatest..." and its just lack of perspective.

This is not one of those times.

Brady is the GOAT.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I completely agree.

I think I was counting to 200 everytime the guy dropped back to pass. He got hurried/sacked once.

How about New England's OL is the best of all time. I can buy that.

And since I am hating on the Pats, do they every call anything on the Pats unless it is a personal foul on Harrison, cause I guess holding doesn't apply to them.

I saw some plays that if the Cardinals were out there every ref would have thrown a flag and went in the back to get more to throw on the ground.

That all being said.

The Pats are scary good. And there is no denying it.

Ridiculous. This is one subject where I cannot handle other "opinions".

Brady is a system QB? I agree to this degree - He came into the perfect situation with the right coaches (Bill and Weis) and offensive system, and team. But since the first Super Bowl its been every thing HE has done.

I will say it once and I will say it again. I represent all the teams that are Arizona. I pretty much hate every other team for this reason.

But if you don't respect Brady and Derek Jeter (when they are not playing your team of course) its plain and simple.

You're just a hater.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Best QB of the modern era? Hard to argue with. Best QB ever? NO! That would be....drumroll please...

Otto Graham

In the era of football where the run reigned supreme, this is what Otto Graham did:

He compiled a whopping 105-17-4 record with the Browns in his career. IN TEN SEASONS. His team made the championship game EVERY YEAR, and won SEVEN CHAMPIONSHIPS. He had a career QB rating of over 85...when his career went from 1946 to 1955. He threw for 174 TDs in that era, or 17.4 a season IN THE FORTIES AND FIFTIES. He threw for 364 yards in his NFL debut. I cannot find the stats on this, but I saw in a special that he had a cazy number of 300 yd passing games.

I say Otto Graham is the best QB ever.

Never saw Otto play. I will have to defer to your opinion.

I will say this though. Otto wasn't playing against 280 lb players who run 4.3 40's and against defenses called the "Cover 2" and "Zone Blitz".

But to each his own.

 

[jmt]

Still, it's all going to be for naught when they lose to Indianapolis next week.

Hahahahahahaha!

 

[Gizmo Williams]

I said it 3 years ago, and I'll say it again: when it's all said and done, Brady will be an all-time top 5 QB, maybe even top 3.

Way to go out on a limb. What is your prediction for yesterday's Powerball numbers? I think Brady has cemented his place in the top 5. The only question is if he is the greatest of all-time. He is certainly well on his way to make it a open and shut case with the way he has played...especially in the playoffs.

Last nights game...he executed perfectly on pretty much every snap. His throws were on target to the right receivers. His fake worked great. He played a perfect game. He took what the Jags defense gave. Chance are if the Jags played differently....Brady and the Pats would have just beat them another way...such as to Moss with the deep ball.

 

[Gizmo Williams]

Not to take away from Brady, but I was really impressed with David Gerrard. If Northcutt caught that ball down at the goal line we could be talking about a different ball game right now.

I agree...final score would have been 38-24. The Jags played well....but they needed to play perfectly to keep pace. They could not stop the Pats offense.The Pats might as well have deactivated Hanson...the only time he was needed was when the Pats chose to run the ball 3 times to eat the clock late in the game. Other than that and the Gostkowski miss, the Pats put points on the board.

The Garrard fumble seemed to be the turning point. Other than that mistake...they were able to keep pace until late in the game. However, against the Pats the one mistake was enough to turn the game.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Way to go out on a limb. What is your prediction for yesterday's Powerball numbers? I think Brady has cemented his place in the top 5. The only question is if he is the greatest of all-time. He is certainly well on his way to make it a open and shut case with the way he has played...especially in the playoffs.

Perfect.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Not to take away from Brady, but I was really impressed with David Gerrard. If Northcutt caught that ball down at the goal line we could be talking about a different ball game right now.

Oh I completely agree. Everyone wants to give Jack Del Rio all this love for going to Garrard this season - but really shouldn't he have done it earlier.

I remember a couple years ago a young Garrard coming in to play us against for an injured Leftwich and thinking at the time "Damn - that kid is ALOT better then Byron Leftwich" Of course the Jags won that game BTW.

I was even more impressed last night. Like you mentioned - two Northcutt drops looked to be the difference in the game. He has great mobility but truly is a passer first. And what a passer. Remains to see what he does this off-season but he is well on his way.

 

[Duckjake]

I will say it once and I will say it again. I represent all the teams that are Arizona. I pretty much hate every other team for this reason.

But if you don't respect Brady and Derek Jeter (when they are not playing your team of course) its plain and simple.

You're just a hater.

That's me. If the guy doesn't play for the Cardinals or Titans or isn't a former Longhorn I "hate" 'em.

 

[TheCardFan]

26 of 28, 3 TDs, 0 Ints. 141 QB rating. In New England in January.

Wow.

I don't know where to rank him among all time QBs but he already has 3 SB rings. Just sick.

And to think he may never have been given the chance to play if Bledsoe wasn't hurt.

Makes you wonder...have there been other "Brady's" who never saw the field?

 

[40yearfan]

I agree...final score would have been 38-24. The Jags played well....but they needed to play perfectly to keep pace. They could not stop the Pats offense.The Pats might as well have deactivated Hanson...the only time he was needed was when the Pats chose to run the ball 3 times to eat the clock late in the game. Other than that and the Gostkowski miss, the Pats put points on the board.

The Garrard fumble seemed to be the turning point. Other than that mistake...they were able to keep pace until late in the game. However, against the Pats the one mistake was enough to turn the game.

Speaking of Gostkowski, he missed a chip shot when the game was still on the line. According to thinking by some on this board, NE should release him and get a better kicker. Missing a chip shot when the game is on the line only happens to bad kickers.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Speaking of Gostkowski, he missed a chip shot when the game was still on the line. According to thinking by some on this board, NE should release him and get a better kicker. Missing a chip shot when the game is on the line only happens to bad kickers.

Just a little bit different. Namely this:

Cards 31 SF 37 in OT

Pats 31 Jags 20

 

[Crazy Canuck]

There is one thing those guys don't have that the Pats have as well ...

Being caught cheating, is why I hate the patriots and everything to do with them.

BB should have been suspended this year.

Operative word being "caught".

Further: the taping was irrelevent to the game played against the Jets, any benefit would have come in the NEXT game against the Jets.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

That's me. If the guy doesn't play for the Cardinals or Titans or isn't a former Longhorn I "hate" 'em.

no you don't have to like them. Personally they can all jump off a cliff if they are playing my squad. And that goes for my own family members. But I can't understand why any sports fan wouldn't RESPECT them unless your Giselle Bundchen's ex boyfriend.

The don't get in trouble, are classy off the field, don't oversaturate themselves with endorsements, they are both terrific in the clutch, are all about winning and team, and are a couple good looking guys with game for the ladies to boot.

Unless there is some kind of personal vendetta i have yet to hear a good reason (that isn't rife with your own insecurity) for not liking these two.

T.O., Randy Johnson, AROD, Barry Bonds, etc I can all understand. But those two do things the RIGHT way

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Ridiculous. This is one subject where I cannot handle other "opinions".

Then stop talking about it.

Kinda stupid for a person to post something on a forum if he doesn't want to hear other people's opinions on things. What do you expect ? For us all to agree and proclaim you the all knowing wizard of all sports.

And where does it say I don't respect Tom Brady ? I respect him, but I definately don't think he what the media makes him out to be. Furthermore, I admitting I was "hating" in my post. Try reading before you make assumptions about what I have to say on something, and especially if you gonna label things on me as well.

By your reasoning if Tom Brady is a top 3 QB then you better put Terry Bradshaw in the Top 5 as well. And Bradshaw, did what he did, with much less on the offensive side of the ball. And I love you how no one is allowed to have an opinion on this matter yet you have no idea who Otto Graham is. If you are so in love with what Tom Brady has done then go check out the streak Otto Graham put together.

And on that subject:

I will say this though. Otto wasn't playing against 280 lb players who run 4.3 40's and against defenses called the "Cover 2" and "Zone Blitz".

But to each his own.

Yeah, and Brady is currently playing in a time where there is a "roughing the passer" penatly where you can't even fart on a QB without being penalized, and plays in an age where you can't touch a WR after being 5 yards down field.

Otto played where kicking the cr@p out of the QB constantly was the norm, and mugging the WR's all the way down the field was fair game. You didn't need zones when you could just knock the WR on his butt 40 yards down the field.

And as for forty times....they didn't have them back then. But to say there were not as fast is a HUGE assumption on something you already admit you have no knowledge about.

Then you go on to say "To each his own". Didn't you just tell me you won't handle other's opinions on the subject?

This is just stupid you are just looking to pick fights. Drop it cause your are not making an valid case for your original OPINION on Tom Brady.

BUT at least we can agree on one thing. They all suck when they are playing against the Cardinals.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Speaking of Gostkowski, he missed a chip shot when the game was still on the line. According to thinking by some on this board, NE should release him and get a better kicker. Missing a chip shot when the game is on the line only happens to bad kickers.

Sorry 40.

Rackers has to go. He had the worst kicking percentage in the entire NFL last year. AND missed a huge chip shot to keep us in the playoff hunt.

It is quite a valid point to cut Rackers. If not for missing some of the most important kicks for the current Cardinals team over the last few year, then for being the worse kicker in the NFL last year.

You can go to NFL.com to check it.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Then stop talking about it.

Kinda stupid for a person to post something on a forum if he doesn't want to hear other people's opinions on things. What do you expect ? For us all to agree and proclaim you the all knowing wizard of all sports.

And where does it say I don't respect Tom Brady ? I respect him, but I definately don't think he what the media makes him out to be. Furthermore, I admitting I was "hating" in my post. Try reading before you make assumptions about what I have to say on something, and especially if you gonna label things on me as well.

By your reasoning if Tom Brady is a top 3 QB then you better put Terry Bradshaw in the Top 5 as well. And Bradshaw, did what he did, with much less on the offensive side of the ball. And I love you how no one is allowed to have an opinion on this matter yet you have no idea who Otto Graham is. If you are so in love with what Tom Brady has done then go check out the streak Otto Graham put together.

And on that subject:


Yeah, and Brady is currently playing in a time where there is a "roughing the passer" penatly where you can't even fart on a QB without being penalized, and plays in an age where you can't touch a WR after being 5 yards down field.

Otto played where kicking the cr@p out of the QB constantly was the norm, and mugging the WR's all the way down the field was fair game. You didn't need zones when you could just knock the WR on his butt 40 yards down the field.

And as for forty times....they didn't have them back then. But to say there were not as fast is a HUGE assumption on something you already admit you have no knowledge about.

Then you go on to say "To each his own". Didn't you just tell me you won't handle other's opinions on the subject?

This is just stupid you are just looking to pick fights. Drop it cause your are not making an valid case for your original OPINION on Tom Brady.

BUT at least we can agree on one thing. They all suck when they are playing against the Cardinals.

Look, there is no one singular, Holy Grail Top "whatever" listing of QB's that serves as the end all be all... All of us, as well as former and current players and the media have our own ways of assessing what makes a QB a top QB...
That said, I really have a hard time understanding how anyone who says they understand the game of football, would somehow feel it's appropriate to diminish what Brady has done over his career... The numbers all speak for themselves. Numbers that less than a handful of QB's have ever put up. And again, Brady is doing this in an era that many "experts" believe makes his accomplishments all the more amazing...
And for those that say that Brady is nothing more than a "system" QB (a phrase that always makes me laugh), this would then suggest that Brady would not do well on other teams. This then also means that you have not been paying attention to his career, as since he became a starter in 2001, he's won at an astonishing rate, with a variety of teams, players, talents... The "system" thinking would also suggest that you believe many other QB's would have been able to match Brady's performances had they been in his shoes...
I simply can't imagine more ludicrous and ridiculous thinking... You can argue whether Brady is Top 3, Top 5 or Top 10... But, the rest of this debate is bordering on shear stupidity...

 

[TheHopToad]

Saying that Tom Brady is a system QB is like saying Steve Nash is a system point guard. Perhaps the system is tailored to them, but the players still have to execute and make the plays.

Nobody else can do what Brady does. He has ice water in his veins. Nothing phases him. Even Peyton Manning dances around in a panic when he can't find an open guy and the defense is coming at him.

Of course it helps that Brady has all day to look, but he still has to make the precision throw, and he does it every time. In the game last night, both of his incompletions were drops.

 

[SuperSpck]

Every QB who played for Walsh was automatically a better QB.

Brady could be experiencing something similar in NE.

Offensive line blocking was mentioned and is always under-appreciated.

Also worth noting is that the QB's themselves are well protected by over officiating and defenses have never been more hamstrung by rules designed to increase scoring.
The greatest quarterbacks will never be able to emerge from this era because it's a disservice to the guys who played with real targets on them.

 

[Duckjake]

Unless there is some kind of personal vendetta i have yet to hear a good reason (that isn't rife with your own insecurity) for not liking these two.

I already gave you the only reason I need. They don't play for one of my teams.

I like to take the Bob Gibson approach to opponents.

 

[Ronin]

I know where to rank him. #1 of all time.

Might not even be close. 50 TD season. Lead greatest offense ever. 16-0. MVP. and on his way to his fourth title.

This is before you take into account that he already has three rings and two Super Bowl MVP's.

Who else is even in the discussion?

Marino? No rings
Elway? 2 rings but no where near the numbers
Montana? Close with rings (4) but no where near the numbers
Favre? Maybe if he takes a ring from Brady this year - but thats not likely.
Peyton Manning? Even if he beats Brady next week - its not even close.

Brady = Greatest QB of all time.

Montana has 3 Superbowl MVPS also.

TOM BRADY.

Super Bowl
XXXVI

2002, New Orleans
Patriots 20, Rams 17
Brady: 16-27, 145 yards
1 TD, 0 INT
86.2 rating
MVP: Brady.
Super Bowl
XXXVIII

2004, Houston
Patriots 32, Panthers 29
Brady: 32-48, 354 yards
3 TDs, 1 INT
100.5 rating
MVP: Brady.
Super Bowl
XXXIX

2005, Jacksonville
Patriots 24, Eagles 21
Brady: 23-33, 236 yards
2 TDs, 0 INT
110.2 rating
MVP: Deion Branch
JOE MONTANA.

Super Bowl
XVI

1982, Pontiac
49ers 26, Bengals 21
Montana: 14-22, 157 yards
1 TD, 0 INT
100.0 rating
MVP: Montana.
Super Bowl
XIX

1985, Stanford
49ers 38, Dolphins 16
Montana: 24-35, 331 yards
3 TDs, 0 INT
127.2 rating
MVP: Montana.
Super Bowl
XXIII

1989, Miami
49ers 20, Bengals 16
Montana: 23-36, 357 yards
2 TDs, 0 INT
115.2 rating
MVP: Jerry Rice.
Super Bowl
XXIV

1990, New Orleans
49ers 55, Broncos 10
Montana: 22-29, 297 yards
5 TDs, 0 INT
147.6 rating
MVP: Montana

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2005/02/07/SPGG1B74KE1.DTL

 

[Ronin]

Now let's get down to brass tacks huh? Joe Montana was the greatest Super Bowl QB period. The numbers don't lie people. In four Super Bowls Montana was perfect, figuratively and literally. Montana is either first or second in every major Super Bowl passing category including most career yards, touchdowns, completions, and passer rating. If that wasn't enough Montana threw 11 touchdowns with 0 interceptions and was the MVP 3 times, yeah that's right 3 TIMES!!! But what's most impressive about Montana's Super Bowl run wasn't how he performed but who he outperformed. Montana faced the best of his time including two Hall of Famers in Marino and Elway. Not only did he outdo them, he destroyed them and their teams. Let me hit you with some knowledge my friends. Montana averaged 285.5 yards per game and 2.75 touchdowns per game. Now lets compare that to his opponents who averaged 217.5 yards per game, .75 touchdowns per game, and 1.75 interceptions per game. That's an average of 68 yards and 2 tds more that Montana threw over his opponents. How's that for domination? Montana was best under pressure and in the big game; he thrived like no one before or since.--
Aaron Keel

 

[TheHopToad]

Still, it's all going to be for naught when they lose to Indianapolis next week.

Or not.

We'll get to see what a banged up Charger team can do on the road at New England, outside in January, against the best team in the league possibly ever.

Can't wait to see what the spread is now.

 

[sportznutt]

LOL - what exactly is left to measure with Brady? Longevity?

There are a lot of times in sports we rush to annoit some one "the next..." or "the greatest..." and its just lack of perspective.

This is not one of those times.

Brady is the GOAT.

What's left?

Brady is 28th all-time in TD pass thrown.
Brady is 49th all-time in passing yards.
Brady is 11th all-time in Completion %.

He's not the best yet, but he's well on his way.

 

[DoTheDew]

Sorry 40.

Rackers has to go. He had the worst kicking percentage in the entire NFL last year. AND missed a huge chip shot to keep us in the playoff hunt.

It is quite a valid point to cut Rackers. If not for missing some of the most important kicks for the current Cardinals team over the last few year, then for being the worse kicker in the NFL last year.

You can go to NFL.com to check it.

Rayner and Mare both had worse percentages and kicked fewer 50+ yarders. Another Interesting thing about Rackers is that he kicked 95.5% from the middle and missed nearly every kick from the left or right side
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=2300
Perhaps if we lined his kicks up before making him take the most 50+ yarders and most from the left or right hashmark, he wouldn't look so bad.