Trade back partners

[JosiahLee]

(Spit-ballin')

It seems to me, given "O" and "D" efficiency rankings that (9) Jacksonville (10) Cleveland (11) NY Jets could all be interested in the top wideouts in the draft, although 0-line seems more likely for Cleveland. Still, if the Jets want the pick of the litter they would have to trade up to #8.

VALUE CHART (as guide)

C: #8 = 1400 pts

J: #11 = 1250 pts

Cards could ask for:

J: #68 = 250 pts

Cards could accept:

J: #79 = 195 pts

In this scenario, Jeudy, Lamb, Ruggs or a quality OT could be off the board when the Cards pick. Cards would likely have a choice of Ruggs, one of the prospective tackles (Wills/Brown?) or perhaps turn to someone like (Kinlaw/Chaisson?) on "D". The extra #3rd could allow them to draft an O-guard of the future, John Simpson, for example.

This is the problem with trading back...Unless we trade back into the latter half of the draft we are not getting a 2nd round pick but a 3rd...And as many have already mentioned the stud players will be gone at that point. Plus the thought of giving the 9ers someone who was high on our draft board is enough to make any Cards fan puke

 

[JCSunsfan]

We are not trading down. This is a perfect opportunity to get an impact player.

 

[Solar7]

We are not trading down. This is a perfect opportunity to get an impact player.

Agreed, unless we get a bounty.

 

[Stout]

Denver is probably as far as I would trade back unless we are talking about getting future 1sts...and even then its about who is on the board.

Huh uh. Multiple 1sts in THIS draft isn't enough to trade back that far, IMO. Getting burned like we did in the past is not an option. Trading back so far we don't get top-ten impact players isn't an option. Sit tight and take a top player or, at most, trade back a few spots to pick up a pick or two.

To me trading with Denver makes the most sense assuming Denver wants its pick of the top receivers. Even if AZ doesn’t take one NYJ, Indy & Oakland figure to strip the top guys. That said I’d want their Round 2 pick, not 2 thirds. It’s very close to chart value. Keep in mind that any trade partner you suggest must have picks that fit the exchange value.

Sorry, Harry, no dice. Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Chart be damned, I don't want us trading back that far, especially not for a mere 2nd-round pick. Remember an almost similar trade back, as far as position, got us two 1sts? And remember how awful that ended up. No dice.

 

[Dr. Jones]

If Young, Simmons and Okudah are gone:
atleast 2 or 3 OT's remain
atleast 2 of 3 WR's remain

How can you not be interested in a move back of 2 to 5 picks?

 

[Stout]

If Young, Simmons and Okudah are gone:
atleast 2 or 3 OT's remain
atleast 2 of 3 WR's remain

How can you not be interested in a move back of 2 to 5 picks?

How can you consider all of those remaining players as exactly the same?

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

No No, No. We are talking about moving back to take "one of the left over good wrs or ots. Why, when staying put we have our choice of the Best. It will be awhile before we draft this high again. We need to get the very Best we can get and not settle for 2nd or 3rd best.

Sure we all want more picks, but not by passing on the cream of the crop.

 

[Lagerfilled]

Everyone seems to talk about trading back like it’s easy or a virtual certainty. While I think Keim would embrace a move down a few spots to accumulate more picks on day 2, it always takes two sides and is unlikely to happen. We should be prepared to select the best player on our board regardless of position.

If I had to guess, here’s the Cards ranking 1-8 and one of these will definitely be available when we pick save Young:

1) Chase Young (Edge) - best player in the entire class; no brainer
2) Jeff Okudah (CB) - best at a premium position; P2 clone and allows us to move on
3) Isaiah Simmons (S/ILB) - athletic freak with supreme versatility at positions of need
4) Derrick Brown (DE/DT) - smart, physical leader that loves ball; a mini Fletcher Cox
5) CeeDee Lamb (WR) - best hands & competitiveness; K1 favorite w/ O familiarity
6 Jedrick Wills (OT) - most technique sound and nasty Tackle in the draft; plug n play
7) Tristen Wirfs (OT) - physically gifted mover that can play 4 OL positions
8) Henry Ruggs III (WR) - speed merchant with alpha qualities; Tyreek Hill 2.0 potential

I had a tough time deciding between Ruggs and Jeudy as the 8th ranked, but I see JJ more as a slot and Ruggs as the better fit for our needs moving forward.

Thoughts???

 

[GuernseyCard]

Everyone seems to talk about trading back like it’s easy or a virtual certainty. While I think Keim would embrace a move down a few spots to accumulate more picks on day 2, it always takes two sides and is unlikely to happen. We should be prepared to select the best player on our board regardless of position.

If I had to guess, here’s the Cards ranking 1-8 and one of these will definitely be available when we pick save Young:

1) Chase Young (Edge) - best player in the entire class; no brainer
2) Jeff Okudah (CB) - best at a premium position; P2 clone and allows us to move on
3) Isaiah Simmons (S/ILB) - athletic freak with supreme versatility at positions of need
4) Derrick Brown (DE/DT) - smart, physical leader that loves ball; a mini Fletcher Cox
5) CeeDee Lamb (WR) - best hands & competitiveness; K1 favorite w/ O familiarity
6 Jedrick Wills (OT) - most technique sound and nasty Tackle in the draft; plug n play
7) Tristen Wirfs (OT) - physically gifted mover that can play 4 OL positions
8) Henry Ruggs III (WR) - speed merchant with alpha qualities; Tyreek Hill 2.0 potential

I had a tough time deciding between Ruggs and Jeudy as the 8th ranked, but I see JJ more as a slot and Ruggs as the better fit for our needs moving forward.

Thoughts???

Good stuff, but I don't see any O-lineman at #8 as plug-and-play. It's an investment in the future. No snot nose is going to displace a healthy Gilbert in year one. He'll be 1 of 8 dressed on game day and go to graduate school. IMO.

 

[Dr. Jones]

How can you consider all of those remaining players as exactly the same?

Not exactly, but all are top performers and early 1st rounders.

I just traded in a mock NFL draft with the Jets.

The moved from 11 to 8 and gave me their early 3rd rounder. #68ish IIRC.

Lamb, Jeudy, Wirfs, Thomas, etc.... all still on the board. No Wills or I would have stayed and drafted. The Jets took Becton.

 

[TJ]

Friendly reminder that we dont have a second round pick in this draft. Trading down a couple of spots and jumping back into round 2, or just getting an additional 3rd, is an enticing proposition.

 

[Proximo]

How can you consider all of those remaining players as exactly the same?

There are a ton of draft experts that rate them very similarly.

I have seen all 4 tackles listed to go first, and all 3 receivers listed to go first, same with the two DL for that matter.

To get a 2nd rounder, or two thirds to get a slightly inferior player is more than worth it if the additional pick pans out as a starter.

 

[FB94]

Friendly reminder that we dont have a second round pick in this draft. Trading down a couple of spots and jumping back into round 2, or just getting an additional 3rd, is an enticing proposition.

My best draft scenario would be to trade down no lower than 11, and hope someone is desperate enough to overpay with a second rounder in return. Hopefully there is another Bill O’Brien our there for the Cards to fleece.

 

[PJ1]

Don't want to trade back far. If we do trade back want a second in return. If that is not feasible than stay where you are.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Keim wants a second round pick. That's in his DNA. He likes to recoup picks. If he can trade down and still get a player he likes, he is going to do it unless an elite player is there at #8 like Simmons or Okudah.

 

[Harry]

Huh uh. Multiple 1sts in THIS draft isn't enough to trade back that far, IMO. Getting burned like we did in the past is not an option. Trading back so far we don't get top-ten impact players isn't an option. Sit tight and take a top player or, at most, trade back a few spots to pick up a pick or two.



Sorry, Harry, no dice. Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Chart be damned, I don't want us trading back that far, especially not for a mere 2nd-round pick. Remember an almost similar trade back, as far as position, got us two 1sts? And remember how awful that ended up. No dice.

I love it when people assert history is against something without the evidence to back it up. Every team has made bad deals but overall trading down has worked when done properly.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...74c904-675c-11e9-a1b6-b29b90efa879_story.html

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I love it when people assert history is against something without the evidence to back it up. Every team has made bad deals but overall trading down has worked when done properly.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...74c904-675c-11e9-a1b6-b29b90efa879_story.html

People love to point to that Suggs trade.

The issue wasn't the return it was the picks made with the return.

11 Pro Bowlers were selected between Pace and the end of round 2.

 

[Solar7]

There are a ton of draft experts that rate them very similarly.

I have seen all 4 tackles listed to go first, and all 3 receivers listed to go first, same with the two DL for that matter.

To get a 2nd rounder, or two thirds to get a slightly inferior player is more than worth it if the additional pick pans out as a starter.

I don't really like this line of thinking. Just because they're in the same grouping in mocks doesn't mean they're functionally interchangeable.

If as a GM, you can't make a decision and say "that's my guy," and go with "eh, any will do, we'll let the others pick off the top of the pile and see what's left over," I don't think you're a good GM.

 

[Stout]

People love to point to that Suggs trade.

The issue wasn't the return it was the picks made with the return.

11 Pro Bowlers were selected between Pace and the end of round 2.

Exactly! The problem was the decision maker back then...

I love it when people assert history is against something without the evidence to back it up. Every team has made bad deals but overall trading down has worked when done properly.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...74c904-675c-11e9-a1b6-b29b90efa879_story.html

...and I sure in the hell don't trust Keim to make good decisions on more picks. Stay put, take the surest thing we can, and carry on.

 

[slanidrac16]

If we traded down 2 or 3 spots( no further) and picked up a 3rd round pick we could always package a 3rd and 4th to move up into the second.

 

[AZman5103]

The thing with the OTs and WRs is that we may very well favor the 3rd OT and the 3rd WR because of their fit with us. Other teams that would trade up for Words, Behcton or Thomas are most likely looking for a LT prospect,cwhere we are simply looking for a RT.

Teams that would trade up for Jeudy or Lamb might be looking for a WR 1 , while we are looking at Ruggs as a DHop compliment.

I'm not saying I'm correct, but just something to think about. We might be in a unique position to trade down because we know we are picking a player who will go in the 11-15 range and don't want to reach

 

[Jetstream Green]

I think the Raiders are a team we have a good rapport with if they feel a need to draft a QB

 

[Brak]

Reminds me of 1985, when the Niners were picking late (should have been last as they'd just won the Super Bowl), and coveted Jerry Rice. So did Dallas. Dallas had the #16 pick. The Niners made a last-minute deal to slide into the #15 slot and took him, much to the chagrin of the Dallas war room. The rest is history.

My point? Trading back doesn't mean you can't wind up with a VERY good pick. In this case, they wound up with the best of all time at his position.. though that seems like one helluva reach for Keim, who can't seem to make a decent pick before the 3rd round. I'm hoping they do trade back and finally hit on a couple of their highest picks.

 

[GatorAZ]

If Young, Simmons and Okudah are gone:
atleast 2 or 3 OT's remain
atleast 2 of 3 WR's remain

How can you not be interested in a move back of 2 to 5 picks?

You just stated why nobody within 5 spots is trading up.

 

[Dr. Jones]

You just stated why nobody within 5 spots is trading up.

I'm in a live mock draft with a fan from every team and you are right..... It was tough to find a partner.

I picked up the Jets pick at 79 (I think) in the 3rd and we swapped spots (#8 to #11). He then picked Becton.

On the board at 11 were: All three WR's & Wirfs.

It was odd...... I think the WR's fell because everyone knows there will be more WR's in the middle of the draft so the OT's went super fast.

First 15 picks:
Bengals Joe Burrow
Redskins Chase Young
Chargers Tua Tagovailoa
Dolphins Isaiah Simmons
Dolphins Jedrick Wills Jr
Lions Jeff Okudah
Panthers Derrick Brown
Jets Mekhi Becton
Jaguars Javon Kinlaw
Browns Andrew Thomas
Cardinals Tristan Wirfs
Raiders C.J. Henderson
49ers Jerry Jeudy
Buccaneers CeeDee Lamb
Broncos Henry Ruggs

The Lions and Chargers swapped spots for some capital (A likely scenario IMO. They LOVE them some Tua)

And the Giants swapped out with Miami (Unlikely IMO) for a haul of picks that included one of their firsts this year, one next year, and a third rounder as well.