I have a feeling the Cardinals want to add Eli Manning. He could help draw fans to Arizona and be their cornerstone as they enter a new stadium in a couple of years. What would it take to get Manning? Here is a possiblity: San Diego's number 1 (1st) overall to Arizona for their number 1 (3rd overall), 4th round pick, 1st round pick in 2005, QB Josh McCown, and OT Anthony Clement. That's probably the going rate for the top pick in the draft. Remember a few years ago the Cardinals got two players and three picks for switching positions with the Chargers.
Trade Up for Manning
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Mr. Boldin
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kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
That's a whole lot to give up to a team that doesn't want to exercise the #1 overall pick anyway.
I'm telling you: Don't give up on Anthony Clement yet. Getting rid of him would cripple the salary cap that we've worked so hard to get into good position on.
If we were the Raiders, or even a team like the Panthers or Falcons, who just needed another playmaker to catalyze the entire team, that would be a decent trade, but I think that we need high picks in both of the primary rounds. I'd rather exercize the #3 overall pick and the #35 overall pick than give up both for anything less than the next Michael Vick. Giving up a #3 and #35, not to mention a player that you view as a foundation to your franchise (Clement), you should get a player that is going to fundamentally change the way football is played. Eli Manning is a good prospect, but not that good.
I'm telling you: Don't give up on Anthony Clement yet. Getting rid of him would cripple the salary cap that we've worked so hard to get into good position on.
If we were the Raiders, or even a team like the Panthers or Falcons, who just needed another playmaker to catalyze the entire team, that would be a decent trade, but I think that we need high picks in both of the primary rounds. I'd rather exercize the #3 overall pick and the #35 overall pick than give up both for anything less than the next Michael Vick. Giving up a #3 and #35, not to mention a player that you view as a foundation to your franchise (Clement), you should get a player that is going to fundamentally change the way football is played. Eli Manning is a good prospect, but not that good.
What would the cap implications of his release be on the team?
Cardiac
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I would hate giving up on McCown at this point.
The qualifier to this would be who is our next HC. If it's Green then does he think McCown can run his style of the WC offense. Josh has the mobility that many want in a WC offense but can he make all of the reads that come with that system?
Eli should be at least a solid pro in the NFL but can the Cards afford to give that much up for him?
Is Eli that much better than Big Ben?
Will both be gone at #3?
Are their any other players worth the #3 pick if both Qb's are gone?
Could Losman or Rivers or ..... be good choices latter in rd 1 or early 2nd rd?
Can graves and the new HC actually get some of the holes in FA filled so that this team has the luxury of taking the BPA?
The qualifier to this would be who is our next HC. If it's Green then does he think McCown can run his style of the WC offense. Josh has the mobility that many want in a WC offense but can he make all of the reads that come with that system?
Eli should be at least a solid pro in the NFL but can the Cards afford to give that much up for him?
Is Eli that much better than Big Ben?
Will both be gone at #3?
Are their any other players worth the #3 pick if both Qb's are gone?
Could Losman or Rivers or ..... be good choices latter in rd 1 or early 2nd rd?
Can graves and the new HC actually get some of the holes in FA filled so that this team has the luxury of taking the BPA?
cardsfan473
In memory of a REAL Hero
While I agree that Manning is the choice to take, I think some are missing a very important issue.
That is the assumption that San Diego even wants to trade with us. The other side has to be willing to deal with you. Otherwise, its all moot anyhow.
After the Wadsworth fleecing, they may not want to deal with us.
I also worry about trying to give up too much. Manning, while nice, is not worth the moon. Also, figure how many other teams also want to trade up for Manning. I think it makes our chances slim at best, even if we wanted to make the trade. We lost our shot at Manning after Poole's catch to save the Cheese, IMO.
Hate to be a downer, that's just how I see it.
I'm starting to like the Sean Taylor idea. He was awesome in that Bowl game, and I feel you build the defense down the middle. We need 2 good tackles, a new Mike Linebacker, and Sean Taylor at safety. I feel that along with Dexter Jackson, they would make a great tandem. I'm not ready to give up on Wilson, but he has a lot of improvement to do - this might light a fire. Worse case, you end up with several options for Wilson.
I think whatever we do with the #3 pick that we take the best athlete regardless of position. Manning would be awesome though, if we could pull off a miracle - I'm for it!
That is the assumption that San Diego even wants to trade with us. The other side has to be willing to deal with you. Otherwise, its all moot anyhow.
After the Wadsworth fleecing, they may not want to deal with us.
I also worry about trying to give up too much. Manning, while nice, is not worth the moon. Also, figure how many other teams also want to trade up for Manning. I think it makes our chances slim at best, even if we wanted to make the trade. We lost our shot at Manning after Poole's catch to save the Cheese, IMO.
Hate to be a downer, that's just how I see it.
I'm starting to like the Sean Taylor idea. He was awesome in that Bowl game, and I feel you build the defense down the middle. We need 2 good tackles, a new Mike Linebacker, and Sean Taylor at safety. I feel that along with Dexter Jackson, they would make a great tandem. I'm not ready to give up on Wilson, but he has a lot of improvement to do - this might light a fire. Worse case, you end up with several options for Wilson.
I think whatever we do with the #3 pick that we take the best athlete regardless of position. Manning would be awesome though, if we could pull off a miracle - I'm for it!
We should not trade up to get him...the things we would have to give would be too great.
If we were a qb away from the Super Bowl, then maybe you give up picks and players to get him.
As much as I love Eli, and think he could have been a catalyst in turning this program around, we would get screwed in any deal we tried to do with San Diego.
Maybe he'll fall to 3...I see a 1% chance of that happening.
If we were a qb away from the Super Bowl, then maybe you give up picks and players to get him.
As much as I love Eli, and think he could have been a catalyst in turning this program around, we would get screwed in any deal we tried to do with San Diego.
Maybe he'll fall to 3...I see a 1% chance of that happening.
AnotherHOMER
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Eli isnt going past the second pick. If want him we are gonna need to trade, or get "Back to the Future" and wish for one more sack on McCown. I think there are some nice QB's out there. Eli is just the one getting the hype.
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Mr. Boldin
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Im also starting to jump on the Sean taylor bandwagon. He is a playmaker and after the FSU game showed he is worthy of a top 5 pick.
Ive seen him play for the past 2 years alot of times. He is big strong, fast, can hit, and is always around the ball. I love Wilson, but he isnt doing a whole lot at S. I wouldnt be opposed to bumping him over to corner to see what he can do.
Ive seen him play for the past 2 years alot of times. He is big strong, fast, can hit, and is always around the ball. I love Wilson, but he isnt doing a whole lot at S. I wouldnt be opposed to bumping him over to corner to see what he can do.
I honestly think that that is way to steep of a price to pay for the number one pick. Why not give them our number 1 pick (3rd overall) and give them our second round pick too. I think that is enough to entice the chargers into the trade. I think they still have confindence in drew brees.
JeffGollin
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No single player (including Manning or Roethlisberger) is good enough to turn around this team.
We have too many other holes to feel to surrender players or picks in order to trade up.
Trading away their entire draft in order to grab "the player of their dreams" (Ricky Williams) sure didn't help Ditka or the Saints. When you put all your eggs in one basket like that, you run the risk of a single player's injury, bust or holdout literally ruining your team's future.
While, conversely, I wouldn't trade down to sacrifice quality for quantity, I sure wouldn't sacrifice the players or picks we've got in order to trade up a couple of spots to get one guy who hasn't played a single down in the NFL - unless, of course, we only had to give up a marginal player or pick (like a #4) to move up one or two slots. And that ain't likely to happen.
We have too many other holes to feel to surrender players or picks in order to trade up.
Trading away their entire draft in order to grab "the player of their dreams" (Ricky Williams) sure didn't help Ditka or the Saints. When you put all your eggs in one basket like that, you run the risk of a single player's injury, bust or holdout literally ruining your team's future.
While, conversely, I wouldn't trade down to sacrifice quality for quantity, I sure wouldn't sacrifice the players or picks we've got in order to trade up a couple of spots to get one guy who hasn't played a single down in the NFL - unless, of course, we only had to give up a marginal player or pick (like a #4) to move up one or two slots. And that ain't likely to happen.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
I would trade down, if we were given a sweetheart package.
But at this point in time, no team would be able to give up what it would take to trade down.
If I were GM, I would only trade down if offered:
2 1st rounders for 2004 (not 2005). In the middle of the first round, preferably early middle like 13-15.
1 early to early middle second rounder.
If we were given the right package we would have a draft that looks like this:
1st pick, 12th overall
2nd pick 18th overall
3rd pick 34th overall
4th pick 48th overall
JeffGollin
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2 1st rounders for 2004 (not 2005). In the middle of the first round, preferably early middle like 13-15.
The only way I would do that is if our Board showed at least 13 - 15 blue chip players.
(Note - I would not include quality players like Winslow or Andrews on our board because they don't reflect our needs).
Off the top (no particular ranking) I'd list the following as potential blue chippers -
1. Manning
2. Roethlisberger
3. Clayton
4. Fitzgerald (if he can come out)
5. The other Clayton
6. Williams from USC
7. Wilfork (with reservations)
8. Harris
9. Williams (LB from Miami)
10. Gamble
11. Hall
12. Strait
13 Taylor.
If the Cardinal board looked something like this, I'd therefore only trade down as late as #13. If there were a couple of other players they rated high at positions of need, then they could maybe trade down to #15.
If they didn't rate one or two of the above players that highly, they should only trade down as late as #11.
That's how I'd do it.
(Note - No fudging or you might lose one of the guys you want - last year Graves took a calculated risk that MacDougal would still be there at #18 and (MacD vs. Pace notwithstanding) he didn't get the guy he wanted).
The only way I would do that is if our Board showed at least 13 - 15 blue chip players.
(Note - I would not include quality players like Winslow or Andrews on our board because they don't reflect our needs).
Off the top (no particular ranking) I'd list the following as potential blue chippers -
1. Manning
2. Roethlisberger
3. Clayton
4. Fitzgerald (if he can come out)
5. The other Clayton
6. Williams from USC
7. Wilfork (with reservations)
8. Harris
9. Williams (LB from Miami)
10. Gamble
11. Hall
12. Strait
13 Taylor.
If the Cardinal board looked something like this, I'd therefore only trade down as late as #13. If there were a couple of other players they rated high at positions of need, then they could maybe trade down to #15.
If they didn't rate one or two of the above players that highly, they should only trade down as late as #11.
That's how I'd do it.
(Note - No fudging or you might lose one of the guys you want - last year Graves took a calculated risk that MacDougal would still be there at #18 and (MacD vs. Pace notwithstanding) he didn't get the guy he wanted).
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
See I've seen the Cards go down the "need" route, and if I were the GM, and I traded down, I would draft best available player regardless of position.
This team needs "more" good players, at nearly any position. Guys like Shipp and McKinnon, are good, adequate players, but they could be replaced quite easily IMO. The same could be said about nearly every player on this team, except for a few (namely Boldin, Jackson, Shelton, and Davis).
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