Trading Nash

[Kolo]

I don't think we've seen nearly enough to know whether Kerr's plan (and Porter's coaching) will work in the end. The system is so radically different--and we've had a few games where we've played great--that any talk of overhauling the roster and/or starting over is premature.

But I think I've seen enough to know that even if the system is run as efficiently as it can be, Steve Nash will not be a significant difference maker, at least not nearly as much as he could be on other teams. The point guard in Porter's system doesn't routinely create shots for others. In facilitating the half-court offense and shooting threes when his defender collapses on Shaq or Amare, Nash is great--but he gives up so much defensively that his real impact is limited. In our best games this year, Nash has not put up great numbers (except New Jersey, and even then he wasn't running the team so much as joining everybody else who couldn't miss).

We should obviously trade Nash only if we get a good return--a point guard who's a good defender and a good fit in the offense and a young player with potential and/or a draft pick. I would think teams like Golden State or Memphis or Oklahoma City would give up a ton to get Nash (Earl Watson/Jeff Green? Al Harrington/Brandan Wright/picks? Kyle Lowry/Crittenton/Hakim Warrick/picks?) As disgusted as it makes me to think about, I'd imagine Portland would give up some of the young talent it's going to have to renounce to compete in this summer's free agent market for Nash. I think we'd be as good or better this year, and we'd make up for some of the stupid decisions we've made recently relative to the draft and have a better foundation for the future.

 

[Cheesebeef]

if this were to happen, Portland would absolutely be the team I'd target but we'd need expiring contracts, picks and Rudy Fernandez for me to be happy about it.

I thought before the season that this team was relatively hopeless title wise so nothing about tearing it down and building it back up makes me all that sick. Besides, if we do keep Nash and this entire club, we're gonna be even worse next year, probably miss the playoffs AND we wouldn't have our own lotto pick. Might as well make the future now, really suck this year getting a lotto pick, Fernandez and other picks from Portland so that we have an Amare/Fernandez and, ugh whatever else to offer to entice FA in 2010.

 

[nowagimp]

No question that Nash is of reduced value in Porters system. His shooting percentage, assists, and shots taken are way down. But the suns biggest defensive weakness, the pick and roll, is not just about nash, its about the suns bigs, who dont play the pick and roll well at all. When you get screened, there has to be a switch sometimes, not always fighting through. Byt the way, dragic also sucks on D when he is screened, he actually is easier to screen than nash. the suns have some big problems with implementing porters style, and the players who are not suited to the style include: Barbosa, Bell, Nash, Barnes, Diaw. these players have never produced in the slow down game. And Hill has scored 0 points in the last two games. Trading nash is like putting a bandaid on a stab wound for this team.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think we've seen nearly enough to know whether Kerr's plan (and Porter's coaching) will work in the end. The system is so radically different--and we've had a few games where we've played great--that any talk of overhauling the roster and/or starting over is premature.

I do not have any confidence in Porter so any trades should be made strictly to improve the team's talent. Certainly any player can be traded but for the record, Nash is part of the answer and not part of the problem. The Suns had an excellent coach in D'Antoni and have thrown it away for mediocrity.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Trading nash is like putting a bandaid on a stab wound for this team.

trading Nash as far as I'm concerned isn't about getting better now, but starting to rebuild, which we should have last off-season. No one likes the thought of that, but if we keep him, we're going the way of the late '90's Utah Jazz or the Webber/Bibby Kings, or hell, even the mid-90's Suns. Jerry saw immediately that one year after we lost to the Rox again that he had to trade Barkley. That time has come for Nash. This era is over, without another title sadly and the sooner management swallows that pill, the sooner we can start making that horribly feeling, arduous trek back up the mountain.

 

[abomb]

if this were to happen, Portland would absolutely be the team I'd target but we'd need expiring contracts, picks and Rudy Fernandez for me to be happy about it.

I thought before the season that this team was relatively hopeless title wise so nothing about tearing it down and building it back up makes me all that sick. Besides, if we do keep Nash and this entire club, we're gonna be even worse next year, probably miss the playoffs AND we wouldn't have our own lotto pick. Might as well make the future now, really suck this year getting a lotto pick, Fernandez and other picks from Portland so that we have an Amare/Fernandez and, ugh whatever else to offer to entice FA in 2010.

Do you really think Portland would entertain Nash for Fernandez?

Not being confrontational, just askin'.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Do you really think Portland would entertain Nash for Fernandez?

Not being confrontational, just askin'.

if that team had a true PG, I think they'd probably be unstoppable.

 

[Mainstreet]

Maybe the Suns should have just drafted Fernandez.

 

[Ninjafish]

I think it would be extremely stupid to give up one of the best shooters and passers in the league.

The system is what needs to be tweaked to be more friendly towards Nash.

Defensive is not the problem right now. It's not good but it would be bearable if our offense was strong.

 

[joshstmarie]

if this were to happen, Portland would absolutely be the team I'd target but we'd need expiring contracts, picks and Rudy Fernandez for me to be happy about it.

I thought before the season that this team was relatively hopeless title wise so nothing about tearing it down and building it back up makes me all that sick. Besides, if we do keep Nash and this entire club, we're gonna be even worse next year, probably miss the playoffs AND we wouldn't have our own lotto pick. Might as well make the future now, really suck this year getting a lotto pick, Fernandez and other picks from Portland so that we have an Amare/Fernandez and, ugh whatever else to offer to entice FA in 2010.

THIS! I told my roomate the same exact thing 2 weeks ago... lets get rid of barbosa while we're at it.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think it would be extremely stupid to give up one of the best shooters and passers in the league.

The system is what needs to be tweaked to be more friendly towards Nash.

Defensive is not the problem right now. It's not good but it would be bearable if our offense was strong.

The system went to NY.

 

[Ninjafish]

The system went to NY.

There has to be some way of balancing between this "Give it to Shaq every time" predictable crap style that doesn't benefit anyone but Shaq and D'antoni's style which benefited everyone but Shaq, doesn't there?

Even Porter is agreeing that they need to run more. Everyone seems to be on the same page as far as that's concerned. The system as it is now isn't close to being right.

 

[Cheesebeef]

actually, the best the Suns could probably do in trading Nash is to get some picks and also be able to unload Boris and his horrific contract. If we were able to get a couple firsts for Nash/Boris, I'd do it in a heartbeat and really start the rebuilding process. The problem would then be... it would be Kerr who's rebuilding us and I think he's an idiot as far as his GM prowess is concerned.

bottom line, I think this team is in deep dog doodoo for years whether they trade Nash or don't.

 

[cly2tw]

The system went to NY.

And, as a matter of fact, Nash was the System!

 

[mjb21aztd]

man were 6-3 it is going to take more than 9 games for this team to figure out porters system give it some time before we talk about trading away our best players....

 

[Kolo]

Do you really think Portland would entertain Nash for Fernandez?

Not being confrontational, just askin'.

I don't think they'd trade Fernandez for anybody on the Suns except Amare.

Portland would make some sense, though. One of Chad Ford's articles suggested that if Portland wants the cap space to compete in the free agent market this summer, it'll have to renounce Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw, Channing Frye and Ike Diogu--and Ford wrote in a recent article that they're as willing as anybody to trade right now. I'm not interested in Blake, but Nash for Outlaw, Frey or Diogu, and Jerryd Bayless would get us three good young players and a good base to build on. Portland trades away only one guy (Bayless) who would be on their team after this summer, and a lineup of Nash, Roy, Fernandez, Aldridge and Oden, with Blake, Martell Webster, Batum and Pryzbilla off the bench would be unstoppable.

 

[atikiN]

I thought it was common knowledge among posters here that this team would struggle during the early part of the season due to the system change and the time needed to adjust? Everyone on this team besides Shaq and the rookies have been on a run and gun offense for the past few seasons so why is it so hard to understand that it will take more than 9 games for the to get used to a half court system? We have a much better start to this season than the last one. Lets stop with the doom and gloom and focus on some positives, like Shaq playing well and Barnes putting up solid numbers.

 

[cly2tw]

There has to be some way of balancing between this "Give it to Shaq every time" predictable crap style that doesn't benefit anyone but Shaq and D'antoni's style which benefited everyone but Shaq, doesn't there?

Even Porter is agreeing that they need to run more. Everyone seems to be on the same page as far as that's concerned. The system as it is now isn't close to being right.

Porter is agreeing because he wouldn't want it to be a public fallout with the 2xMVP. They don't need to do 'give it to Shaq' everytime. Nash just has to innerly accept a lesser role of the Stockton's to Malone. Besides, if predictable happens to be unstoppable. Then you do it too! Nash/Amare p-n-r was predictable, stoppable only against good teams like Spurs and Hornets.

 

[Kolo]

I thought it was common knowledge among posters here that this team would struggle during the early part of the season due to the system change and the time needed to adjust? Everyone on this team besides Shaq and the rookies have been on a run and gun offense for the past few seasons so why is it so hard to understand that it will take more than 9 games for the to get used to a half court system? We have a much better start to this season than the last one. Lets stop with the doom and gloom and focus on some positives, like Shaq playing well and Barnes putting up solid numbers.

I agree we need to give it time before trying a new approach--but in Porter's system, which isn't at all unique, Nash lacks the opportunity to dominate a game like he has for the past three years. If we do turn it around and win a title, it won't be because Nash takes us there.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

And, as a matter of fact, Nash was the System!

Yeah New York is doing awful at around 110 a game.

 

[atikiN]

If we do turn it around and win a title, it won't be because Nash takes us there.

How do you know this? Last season Nash shot 50% FG and 47% from the 3. Any players with these kind of numbers have the ability to dominate a game under any system. The offense is no longer entirely on Nash's shoulders but make no mistake about it, he is still the commanding officer of this team. This team will find a balance and will be a contender for the title before the seasons end.

 

[nowagimp]

Porter is agreeing because he wouldn't want it to be a public fallout with the 2xMVP. They don't need to do 'give it to Shaq' everytime. Nash just has to innerly accept a lesser role of the Stockton's to Malone. Besides, if predictable happens to be unstoppable. Then you do it too! Nash/Amare p-n-r was predictable, stoppable only against good teams like Spurs and Hornets.

LOL, such a simplistic view of the pick and roll, good thing you are not the coach. the hornets pick and roll, a very good one, actually depends on Mo Pete and Peja to ensure spacing. the outside shooters punish the help defense for collapsing into the lane on the pick and roll. Most opponents decided to let at least some the suns shooters shoot and just clog the lane. You dont think the spurs and hornets keep all those guys in the lane to hold hands do you?

 

[cly2tw]

LOL, such a simplistic view of the pick and roll, good thing you are not the coach. the hornets pick and roll, a very good one, actually depends on Mo Pete and Peja to ensure spacing. the outside shooters punish the help defense for collapsing into the lane on the pick and roll. Most opponents decided to let at least some the suns shooters shoot and just clog the lane. You dont think the spurs and hornets keep all those guys in the lane to hold hands do you?

Well, careful coaches learned from how Spurs and Hornets killed Nash and our pnr with Amare, or Nash's age caught up on him to be able to deliver the proper passes he used too. What's your point? The System doesn't work anymore. But Nash has a hard time coping with reality. What else is new?

 

[cly2tw]

Yeah New York is doing awful at around 110 a game.

Exactly, great show leading to no chance of winning a championship as we witnessed in Phoenix the past 4 years.

 

[atikiN]

Exactly, great show leading to no chance of winning a championship as we witnessed in Phoenix the past 4 years.

Better than no show at all.