Winning a championship? That roster won a total of 23 games last season. So if NY fails to win a championship with their current roster, you consider that a failure?
Trading Nash
- Thread starter Kolo
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That wasn't what you said. You said the system was Nash, which clearly it was not.
cly2tw
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I didn't get your point. Sorry. I agree. Nash made it look seemless, but ultimately it's the trackmeet mentality that makes it success. When everybody is tired, more defensive mistakes happen to allow higher scoring and shift the battle ground a little to the area of athletic potential. If you don't run from start to end the whole game, selective runs won't do the trick in DA's sense. Probably that explains why Nash has been much less effective with his dribbles, besides his own age-induced slowing-down. The more we have reason to stop be nostalgic of wanting to go back to the System's glory days.
Now THAT is a realistic deal. As a Lakers fan, I want no part of Portland getting better. Outlaw and Batum have been very impressive to me this season.
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yeah, I guess I'd take Bayless and expirings in two years, although I'd still like to get rid of Diaw in such a deal. Otherwise we're really just bending over for Portland.
cly2tw
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I don't think Blazers would want Nash. They are not contending in at least 2 years when Nash retires. They'd rather build on their young cores.
Under trade threads, I proposed Nash/LB for Billups/Smith as a win-win for both teams.
Under trade threads, I proposed Nash/LB for Billups/Smith as a win-win for both teams.
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And, as a matter of fact, Nash was the System!
Actually, D'Antoni brought his system to Phoenix and Nash was the spark-plug (so to speak) chosen to run it. However, I know what you are saying. Nash and D'Antoni's system became almost indistinguishable.
nowagimp
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Whats my point? It fell on deaf ears by a guy who doesnt understand the nuances of the pick and roll(hint: spacing needed).
You trade Nash you give up on the season IMO. I am sorry but there is no other tier 1 PG that anybody is going to trade. If you trade Nash, you might as well rid yourself of Diaw's contract while your at it. Then you almost have to trade Shaq as well. He is not going to be part of a rebuild.
So, you trade Nash, Diaw and Shaq. Start rebuilding...season over.
So, you trade Nash, Diaw and Shaq. Start rebuilding...season over.
nowagimp
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I dont blame porter at all for using this team in a way it was not built for. He is just Kerrs yes man. Steve Kerr will take the blame or the credit for what this team does, as the personnel need to be matched to the strategy.
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When the Suns sent D'Antoni packing and brought in a cheaper ($$) coach in Porter, I think the Suns essentially threw in the towel. Someone would have a very hard time convincing me Porter is a better coach than D'Antoni. This is why I am so frustrated. With D'Antoni the Suns always had a winning system to fall back on to keep the Suns competitive while still having the possibility of a Championship within sight. Maybe the Suns wouldn't have won a Championship under D'Antoni, but after only four full seasons Suns fans will never know.
After some talk among Bell and Nash, I can't help but wonder if Porter is on the verge of losing control of the team. It wouldn't take much for the veterans on this team to nosedive. Amare, Shaq, Bell and Nash are very opinionated. Did the Suns get rid of D'Antoni only to rebuild? If so this is a long way to fall.
nowagimp
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If the suns rebuild, I would expect amare to sign elsewhere when his contract is up. Im sure he will get offers from teams that are more competitive.
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The Suns roster would look like the stock market.
I don't agree with that. I think the Suns honestly felt this team just needed a competant defensive coach to get over the top. I think they felt with a PG like Steve that he could keep some of the offensive identity. I don't think this was about the Suns saving money.
I think this was about a Coach who's ego was to big to take suggestions on how to coach. I think this was about a coach who felt offense (using alot of small ball at times) would be enough to win a title....even though it's never been done.
I am not one of the beleivers that felt we could win a title under D'Antoni. We were closer? With the makeup and players we have on this team....you might be right we were closer with D'Antoni. However, that doesn't mean that with the right players Portor isn't just as good. This is still basically D'Antonis team with a different coach. That usually doesn't pan out to well and why most coaches bring in their own guys.
Maybe with a couple trades we can get closer to what Porter needs?
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SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
I agree. Nash is a great player in any system. My problem with Nash is that he is not acting like a commanding officer. He needs to get over the fact that he is not carrying the team on his back and just do what he needs to do under Porter.
mojorizen7
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Nash needs to convert his thinking from Most Valuable Player to Team Player....basically.
This isn't an offense that requires a playmaking PG IMO.
The decisions should be primarily made out of the post with Amare,Shaq,Diaw and let the perimeter guys either cutting to the rim or finding spots to get open looks out of the double teams in the post. At least thats my interpretation of what Porter wants to do thus far.
Nash "could" help the system work IMO.
This isn't an offense that requires a playmaking PG IMO.
The decisions should be primarily made out of the post with Amare,Shaq,Diaw and let the perimeter guys either cutting to the rim or finding spots to get open looks out of the double teams in the post. At least thats my interpretation of what Porter wants to do thus far.
Nash "could" help the system work IMO.
I can't think of a single reason why Portland would let Fernandez go anywhere nor why they would want Nash.
Nash and his brutal turnovers and defensive incompetence are ours to live with this season.
Nash and his brutal turnovers and defensive incompetence are ours to live with this season.
cly2tw
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Well, unfortunately, very often you just can't get any space. You don't want to tell me that our failure with Nash/Amare PnR vs Spurs and Hornets were all due to our perimeter guys not spacing properly!
cly2tw
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Blame for what? That we will never win a NBA title with Nash? Were we to with DA as headcoach or someone else as GM anyway? He has to take the risk to give us a little hope. I haven't lost my faith yet. Despite all my critics to Nash, I still believe he'd relent and concede that a Stockton-like role will be all he gets on a championship team featuring Amare and Shaq!
cly2tw
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You guys are on the same wavelength with me. Nash as SG for example would still be a good player. And as a Stockton imitation would be still a HOFer. I believe he just has hard time coping with the downgrade from 2xMVP to Stockton-like aslo-runs, but sooner or later will relent under demand for winning. Actually, he did it at times under DA to acclimate Shaq by not handling the ball for long stretches. Only then, DA was on his side anytime he wanted the assurance, no such certainty and comfort zone with Porter anymore.
Black Jesus
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I think incorporating Shaq is more important than Nash... i need to spend some time on ESPN trade machine. haha
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the Pistons are the perfect example of a team that knows when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. Even though they won 58 games last year and everyone thought they were the second best team in the league, losing again in the Conference Finals, Dumars knew that team was ultimately going nowhere and so he started rebuilding by getting rid of his heart and soul and adding another contract to that. I wish Kerr was smart enough to realize the same is true of this team, which is not only older than the Pistons but NEVER had the same level of success the Pistons did.
the run's over. start the rebuilding while you can and hope that you've done enough by 2008 to either keep amare and give reason for a FA to come here. the only problem is I don't even know what Nash will fetch us at this point. He's 35, last year looked like he was slowing down and whether it's the system or not, he looks even worse this year. And before anyone starts in with a "that's ridiculous. you're totally undervaluing Nash!" let me remind you that Marion, still in his prime was only able to nab a completely over-the-hill Shaq who Miami was desperate to deal and no one else would.
the run's over. start the rebuilding while you can and hope that you've done enough by 2008 to either keep amare and give reason for a FA to come here. the only problem is I don't even know what Nash will fetch us at this point. He's 35, last year looked like he was slowing down and whether it's the system or not, he looks even worse this year. And before anyone starts in with a "that's ridiculous. you're totally undervaluing Nash!" let me remind you that Marion, still in his prime was only able to nab a completely over-the-hill Shaq who Miami was desperate to deal and no one else would.
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I am not 100% denying that there are some good ideas in this thread, but try to look at it this way.
6-3 is there record yet we are complaining.
What if the Suns were 8-1 by beating Chicago, and showing up against Houston or vice versa (hornets). There wouldn't be a whole lot of trade/team's done threads and posts.
Now don't give me the IF complaint because it's true, because it's 9 GAMES INTO THE SEASON. If it were 20-30 games in, and the team showed the same thing they're showing now, then talk imo. But for now...why bother?
6-3 is there record yet we are complaining.
What if the Suns were 8-1 by beating Chicago, and showing up against Houston or vice versa (hornets). There wouldn't be a whole lot of trade/team's done threads and posts.
Now don't give me the IF complaint because it's true, because it's 9 GAMES INTO THE SEASON. If it were 20-30 games in, and the team showed the same thing they're showing now, then talk imo. But for now...why bother?
French Fries
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because it's an interesting topic. you don't have to agree nor disagree. talking like experts is what the fans do
back to the topic, i have a crazy idea. get a defensive minded playmaking pg then move nash to 2, just to alleviate the pain, so to speak. i believe i've said it before but nash imo is the most valuable sniper in the league. lots of pure shooters around the league don't play defense either anyway...
Exactly.
Although I'm pretty sure Nash would bring back a hell of a lot in a trade. Oklahoma City has a point guard who would be good in Porter's system (Watson), extra draft picks (including ours in 2010), and a ton of cap space this offseason ($30 million +). They'd be stupid not to try to trade for him.
And people that want Nash as a sniper, why not just trade for Jason Kapono? Nash is the best playmaking point guard in basketball, by a huge margin. His value to a team that is athletic and runs and does pick-and-rolls all day is far greater than his value to us. The whole point behind trading him hinges on the fact that he's simply a bad fit in Porter's system.
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