Trading Steve Nash?

[statman32]

Now before everyone goes crazy and throws out insults you have to understand why I started this thread.

1. To show people that while trading Nash would be stupid, trading Amare would be even worse.

2. To rant about how we need to switch to more of a half court offense.

I know it's unrealistic because of how much the Suns organization and fans like the guy but would anyone rather trade Steve Nash than Amare Stoudemire if you had to trade one of them?

Think about it. Steve Nash is getting older and while I still expect him to be a top 20 player I doubt he will hold the title as the best point guard at the end of the next year. I would also rather have the dominating big man who has shown improvement in every season so far. This guy has been working out since Day 1 of the off-season and I am convinced he will take back the title as the best center in the league next year.

Plus isn't a big man more important than a point guard? While Nash makes the Suns go that is because the system is based entirely around him. You switch to a half-court offense and Nash is not a MVP candidate the last three years and don't try to convince me that the SUns are better off with there offense being run & gun. It has been proven that to win a championship you need to be a primely half court offense team.

The whole teams offensive philosophy is wrong. Of course it's exciting and makes the Suns fun to watch but a championship is more important. To this date that offensive system has not shown that it could win someone a championship. You switch to a primerly half court offense with the option to run & gun where Amare is the focal point but Nash can still do his thing w/o being relied on to make as many plays and I believe the Suns could have already won a championship.

 

[HooverDam]

Sorry, your basketball analysis stinks. In what way has D'Antonis offense shown it cant win a title?

Last year an insane suspension policy showed the Suns can't win the title

Two years ago the lack of an interior presence (Amares injury) showed the Suns couldn't win the title

Three years ago no bench and a facial injury to Joe Johnson showed they couldn't win the title.

D'Antoni has FORGOTTEN more basketball than anyone on this board has every known, he's offense is fine, its the best in the game.

 

[statman32]

Sorry, your basketball analysis stinks. In what way has D'Antonis offense shown it cant win a title?

Last year an insane suspension policy showed the Suns can't win the title

Two years ago the lack of an interior presence (Amares injury) showed the Suns couldn't win the title

Three years ago no bench and a facial injury to Joe Johnson showed they couldn't win the title.

D'Antoni has FORGOTTEN more basketball than anyone on this board has every known, he's offense is fine, its the best in the game.

So what excuse will everyone make next year? If we have to keep making excuses every single year something needs to be changed.

BTW I love how you bring up D'Antonis basketball knowledge compared to the people on the board as part of your argument.

 

[cly2tw]

Agree.

Amare is the franchise player. Nash is the engine and makes mediocre appear better than they would be on average NBA teams. But he can't turn them into dominant forces in their own right. He is extremely helpful for the team to win games but won't win us a title without a bonafide dominant force on the team. And KG is not such a force.

 

[HooverDam]

So what excuse will everyone make next year? If we have to keep making excuses every single year something needs to be changed.

How are those things excuses, did they happen or not? Those things were all actually issues, not made up bologna. The Suns would've won the title this year sans suspensions and I honestly believe if they just keep the team together, use 24 and 29, and maybe sign Grant Hill, the Suns will be title favorites.

 

[Black Jesus]

Those excuses are pretty big. We went to the WCF without Amare and a player that had 17ppg broke his face in the playoffs. In all honesty, we should be a dynasty right now. And now I am going to cry because the last 3 years we have had the BEST team in the NBA.

 

[statman32]

How are those things excuses, did they happen or not? Those things were all actually issues, not made up bologna. The Suns would've won the title this year sans suspensions and I honestly believe if they just keep the team together, use 24 and 29, and maybe sign Grant Hill, the Suns will be title favorites.

Most excuses are actually issues but that doesn't mean that it's ok to keep bringing them up. Every single year we convince ourselves that we are title favorites but it's not true. Our offense needs to be changed. While productive in the regular season, it relies on Nash way too much come playoff time.

 

[HooverDam]

Most excuses are actually issues but that doesn't mean that it's ok to keep bringing them up. Every single year we convince ourselves that we are title favorites but it's not true. Our offense needs to be changed. While productive in the regular season, it relies on Nash way too much come playoff time.

Really? It does? Because the Suns put up basically the same offensive numbers in the playoffs as they did during the regular season, any category in which their numbers declined was only very slightly.

Please, tell me in what way you are more knowledgeable than Mike D'Antoni. What makes you so wise that you know how to run an NBA offense?

 

[statman32]

Those excuses are pretty big. We went to the WCF without Amare and a player that had 17ppg broke his face in the playoffs. In all honesty, we should be a dynasty right now. And now I am going to cry because the last 3 years we have had the BEST team in the NBA.

If people are going to keep making excuses nothing will ever change. We will still be the "best" team that doesn't win a championship. It's that simple.

 

[azirish]

Nash is very interesting case. He's the best playmaker in the NBA (more than Kidd) but also a first rate shooter. People keep thinking in a year or so he will self destruct like the messages in Mission Impossible.

My guess is that Nash could last almost as long as Stockton. Yes his back is a concern, but he's still one of the most efficient offensive players in the NBA. As the Suns figure out how to operate without being as dependent on him, Nash can be saved for crunch time and when a clutch shooter is needed.

 

[statman32]

Really? It does? Because the Suns put up basically the same offensive numbers in the playoffs as they did during the regular season, any category in which their numbers declined was only very slightly.

Please, tell me in what way you are more knowledgeable than Mike D'Antoni. What makes you so wise that you know how to run an NBA offense?

I don't recall ever saying I am more knowledgeable than Mike D'Antoni. History speaks for itself in regards to what kind of system is effective come playoff time and that system is not run & gun.

I am not the person to get into details about how we run a half-court offense. That is the coaches job. But it's clear to me that a change needs to be made.

 

[cly2tw]

How are those things excuses, did they happen or not? Those things were all actually issues, not made up bologna. The Suns would've won the title this year sans suspensions and I honestly believe if they just keep the team together, use 24 and 29, and maybe sign Grant Hill, the Suns will be title favorites.

Excuses or not, it's about attitude and margin for error.

Had KT played more in game 1, ...

Had DA played him more in regular season, so that he wouldn't have worn down in game 5 and 6, ...

Had we had somebody who could guard Parker, ...

Had Marion not be shut down by Parker, which freed Bowen to man handle Nash, ...

Had we used more bench players both in regular season and playoff, ...

These are things that we can control and solving any of them might have been enough to get past the Spurs, despite all the incidences people use as excuses.

 

[joshstmarie]

i dont care how good your post is...dont you EVER use those three words together again.

 

[statman32]

Nash is very interesting case. He's the best playmaker in the NBA (more than Kidd) but also a first rate shooter. People keep thinking in a year or so he will self destruct like the messages in Mission Impossible.

My guess is that Nash could last almost as long as Stockton. Yes his back is a concern, but he's still one of the most efficient offensive players in the NBA. As the Suns figure out how to operate without being as dependent on him, Nash can be saved for crunch time and when a clutch shooter is needed.

You really think that the Suns will magically figure out how to be less dependent on him? The system doesn't allow that to happen.

 

[statman32]

i dont care how good your post is...dont you EVER use those three words together again.

Why support any Amare trade talk then? Trading Amare is even worse at this point.

 

[cly2tw]

My guess is that Nash could last almost as long as Stockton. Yes his back is a concern, but he's still one of the most efficient offensive players in the NBA. As the Suns figure out how to operate without being as dependent on him, Nash can be saved for crunch time and when a clutch shooter is needed.

George, you are the stats man, please check it up for us how many minutes a game Stockton played after 33. And Horny handled the ball half of the time Stockton was the floor anyway. That's why he was so durable.

 

[HooverDam]

I don't recall ever saying I am more knowledgeable than Mike D'Antoni. History speaks for itself in regards to what kind of system is effective come playoff time and that system is not run & gun.

I am not the person to get into details about how we run a half-court offense. That is the coaches job. But it's clear to me that a change needs to be made.

All you are doing is recycling cliches, sorry. "Run and gun can't work in the playoffs, hhhrrrrr!" Why not? Please show me some numbers. Go look at the Suns offensive numbers in the playoffs they were prolific. Go tell Boston and LA in the 80s that an uptempo system can't work.

Nearly any system can win an NBA title if you have the right players and coaches for it and get a few breaks. Its the definition of ignorance just to claim that an uptempo system can't win, its just not the case.

 

[TheHopToad]

Maybe we should just trade Nash, Amare and Marion to San Antonio for Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli...

Of course, with our luck the Spurs would then repeat for the first time...

 

[azirish]

George, you are the stats man, please check it up for us how many minutes a game Stockton played after 33. And Horny handled the ball half of the time Stockton was the floor anyway. That's why he was so durable.

Actually that's what I'm advocating.

 

[Cheesebeef]

All you are doing is recycling cliches, sorry. "Run and gun can't work in the playoffs, hhhrrrrr!" Why not? Please show me some numbers. Go look at the Suns offensive numbers in the playoffs they were prolific.

actually, in the last three series in which we lost(against the eventual WC Champs), our offense was down around 8 points per game.

You can beat mediocre teams with our style no doubt, but it's yet to be proven it can be done in this era when push comes to shove, for whatever reason.

 

[elindholm]

How about Nash to the Wolves for Ricky Davis, Randy Foye, and the #7? I hear Garnett and Nash would like to play together.

 

[Rab]

How about Nash to the Wolves for Ricky Davis, Randy Foye, and the #7? I hear Garnett and Nash would like to play together.

Sounds fair, sign me up.

 

[dodie53]

How about Nash to the Wolves for Ricky Davis, Randy Foye, and the #7? I hear Garnett and Nash would like to play together.

i will be a twolves fan even though they will suck..
but with nash and KG in that team,
i think they can make the playoffs..

 

[cly2tw]

How about Nash to the Wolves for Ricky Davis, Randy Foye, and the #7? I hear Garnett and Nash would like to play together.

What really sucks is that Wolves don't have more value to make a faintly fair trade for Nash!

I would do Nash/Marion/Bell for Kobe though.

 

[Errntknght]

I firmly believe that uptempo basketball is a winning strategy but I have very grave doubts about D'Antoni's version. For instance I think the higher the tempo the deeper bench you need to have and to use. Sure, the Suns do manage to run a few opposing players in the ground but as often as not they were the ones on tired legs at the end.

Unfortunately for the Suns, Mike D'Antoni came up with his version of the offense playing and coaching in leagues with 40 minute games and less than half as many of them - and it runs into just the problems you'd expect from that. It may well be the he has forgotten more basketball than I know but the problem is that he hasn't forgotten enough of what he learned in Euroleagues.

To top it all off, he has brought only one guy to the team that is a real fit with a running team - Nash. Steve is perfect but all the other fast players he inherited. I guess Bell is okay but its more his ability to hit treys that makes him a plus for this team. But there's absolutely no reason not to have speed all the way to end of the bench. What the heck is he thinking having five guys taking up space on the bench that can't keep up? Thats no way to construct an uptempo team. Sheesh, if we'd just used our draft choices the last three years we'd have no problem having guys with foot speed.