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Gambo: Let’s go back, Robert. Let’s start with last year, because that’s really when everybody started talking about Joe and Joe hitting restricted free agency. Last year, you bypassed the opportunity to sign Joe. What were some of the reasons why you elected not to sign him to an extension when you had exclusive rights to him?
Sarver: The main reason is I’d just bought the team. We committed a lot of money up front and we hadn’t really proven yet how successful the team was going to be, and I was reluctant to lock in the starting five, all with big contracts, with a team that we didn’t know was going to be that successful. At the beginning, having some flexibility was worth something. It really wasn’t anything to do with Joe because everybody liked Joe and everyone thought Joe was a good player. It was just not knowing how successful our format was going to be. I mean, everybody was predicting us to do a lot worse than we did. You know, we weren’t even predicted to make the playoffs last year.
Ash: We’ve said this all along… and I remember back in that day, even John and I were saying, “I don’t know if Joe is worth a big, $50 million contract,” because we just didn’t know. In hindsight now, it’s very easy to look back and say that it would have been great to get Joe for six years and $50 million. At the time, Robert, did you ever think that Joe Johnson would become a max type player, or that he would receive a max type offer the following year?
Sarver: You know, I thought he was going to make more money. I remember I saw him in L.A. at the Clippers game right afterwards and I said, “Joe, I feel bad. You’re a great guy. Everybody loves you here. Go out and have yourself a helluva year. You’re going to make more money. I hope you end up in a Phoenix Suns jersey. But right now, I just couldn’t lock in the future.”
I don’t think I thought I he was going to be a max player. I don’t think anyone thought he was going to be a max player. I don’t think anyone thought the Suns were going to be as successful as they were. I don’t think anyone thought Steve Nash was going to be able to help the team as much as he did. I just don’t think anyone predicted the whole season.
Gambo: You know, this was the first year where Joe became like a star player, a really good player. Even last year, like Ash said, me and Ash both thought that the Suns were doing the right thing in not signing Joe to the extension, because you still had the right to match any offer. It’s not like Joe was getting unrestricted free agency. It was just restricted free agency, so you could still match any offer he had. You had another year to evaluate him as a player. During the season, Robert… Joe is a pretty quiet guy. We’ve had him on the show a bunch of times and we never really saw an indication… did you or anybody in the organization see an indication that Joe was unhappy?
Sarver: Not really. I mean, there are things that come up from time to time with players, about a game or about this or that, but that’s pretty much typical. We thought Joe was pretty happy in Phoenix.
Gambo: Was there a point in the season, maybe when you guys started to have all those sellouts or when you realized you were going to be a playoff team, or maybe after you had a lot of home playoff games that built in some more revenue, what point in the season did you realize that you fully intended to sign Joe to a contract and keep him in a Suns uniform?
Sarver: Oh, I would say before the season was kind of half way over, we knew we had a successful format. When we got off to like 20-4 or something, I said “Hey, this looks good.” I remember we had a series where we beat Miami and Indiana back to back in Phoenix and that’s when I said, “Geez, we’re really good.”
But as I told Jerry and everyone back then, I’d much rather pay more for something that I know is going to work than pay less for something that’s not going to work. So I didn’t have any problem paying Joe Johnson more money.
Ash: The season ends, obviously not exactly what you guys wanted, but a very successful season nonetheless…
Sarver: It was better than we wanted. I mean, of course we wanted to farther, but I mean, I was so proud with the way the team played.
Ash: Oh, absolutely. And you had to be proud and I think everyone was, but now the offseason. There were questions about what was going to happen and you guys made the statement that your No. 1 priority – you said it or Bryan (Colangelo) said it, as well, I think – was bringing back Joe Johnson. So at that point, when the season ended, there was no question about it. No matter what he was going to get, you guys were bringing back Joe, correct?
Sarver: Right.
Ash: The offseason, going into it, you guys made a couple of moves. Did you realize, or at what point did you realize, that maybe that six years, $50 million wasn’t going to quite cut it? And maybe you had to make some moves to get a little bit more financial room to make that deal?
Sarver: Yeah, we kind of knew that. I mean, I didn’t really know. But this turned out to be a great year for Joe and for the two-guards. I mean, this was kind of the year of the two-guards. They all got a bunch of money. Obviously, Ray Allen is the star, marquee player in Seattle, Michael Redd is the draw in Milwaukee, and Joe had a team that was willing to pay him a bunch of money. So good for Joe.
Gambo: I think what Ash is getting at, you guys made some moves. Was part of the reason that you traded Q (Richardson), and released the $2 million on Jake (Voskuhl)’s salary to give yourself a stronger position to make sure you keep Joe Johnson?
Sarver: Yeah, part of it was that. And also part of it was we thought we could get quicker by releasing Q. You know, Q is a great shooter and he gets the ball off quick, but I think you’ll see with Raja Bell out there, we’re a faster team than with Q out there. And also defensively…
Ash: Well, and Kurt Thomas. You wanted a center for Amaré (Stoudemire) and Kurt fit the bill perfectly.
Sarver: Yes, we needed help rebounding and as you guys saw, we need people that could stop these guys from making lay-ups down the middle on us. We need someone to stop Manu Ginobili. We needed some defensive toughness and we wanted to stay quick. Raja Bell and Kurt Thomas just answered both of those (needs).
Gambo: You go out there and you offer Joe, initially, six years, $60 million…
Sarver: Well, kinda. I mean, we tried to go meet with him first. The first thing, we had a meeting – Amaré and I, Bryan and Jerry (Colangelo), and Mike D’Antoni – had set up a meeting. We were going to fly out to Arkansas to meet with Joe. We found out the second day of the time you could meet that he had planned on being in L.A… so we made arrangements to meet in Los Angeles at their house. We were going to go there and talk about trying to get a deal, with the idea of coming away with a deal just like we did with Steve Nash (last summer). We got a call a day later that said it was cancelled, “Joe’s busy. He’s got other things to do with his buddies. He’s going to spend the weekend with his buddies.” He’s not meeting with us and not only that, they don’t really have any reason to meet.
Gambo: I had spoken with a few of the players on the team, I guess, three or four weeks ago and the indication that I got from those players was that Joe wanted to leave. Joe didn’t want to be here. Joe wanted to be an All-Star in Atlanta and he didn’t think he could be an All-Star here playing with Amaré and Steve and Shawn (Marion). And that he wanted to be the cornerstone of a team, not the fourth wheel. Me and Ash reported that about three weeks ago. I think some people thought we were crazy when we first mentioned that Joe wanted to play in Atlanta, but that was the truth. At what point… was it when that meeting was cancelled that you started to get an indication that Joe really didn’t want to be a Sun anymore?
Sarver: Kinda, but I didn’t really think that was the case. I just said, “Okay, they’re posturing. This is how business is. They want to get as much money as they can.” But we kept asking, “When can we meet? When can we meet?” And they kept saying, “We don’t want to meet. It’s all about the money. Send the money. Give us an offer. We don’t want you to tell us how much you love him. Just send us the money. Tell us how much it is.” We got on the phone with Joe that night and we said, “Joe, we want to meet with you? We love you. We want you in Phoenix. What will it take to make you a Sun?” His agent said, “Max offer.” Well, you know, we probably weren’t prepared to do that right away because we had the right to match a max offer anyway.
Then about a week later, we decided, okay let’s give him an offer. So we looked around. Well, Steve Nash got $66 million over six years. Manu Ginobili signed for $53 million over six. I thought that wasn’t a bad comp. Manu’s a pretty good player. And so we said, “Okay, you want an offer? Here’s an offer. $60 million. Come back to us.” They came back to us and said, “You know, we’re just not interested.” We asked, “Do you have a counter?” and they said, “No, we’re just going to pursue different options.” So we didn’t get anywhere.
We just kept calling and calling. “Can we meet? Can we meet?” We knew they were looking at a deal with Atlanta, and with all the frustration, I finally told Jerry, “Maybe I’ll just get on a plane and go find the guy. I mean, how hard… I can’t get ahold of him. Maybe I’ll just go find him. I’ll fly into Little Rock.” Jerry said, “Well, maybe we ought to call first, so I called and spoke to his mom, trying to get a call back. I said, “I’m coming in tomorrow, give me 45 minutes, an hour to meet with you,” and I got a call back from his agent’s secretary saying, “He’s busy. He can’t meet.” Then he cancelled two other meetings. Finally, we got a telephone call set up and that’s when I spoke to him last Thursday, and that’s when he validated that he really was preferring to be in Atlanta.
Ash: We had heard the Atlanta offer, five years, $70 million, front loaded, a lot of money up front. At that point, when you heard the five and $70, you still as the Phoenix Suns with the rights to Joe Johnson. When you first heard it, was there any question in your mind… this is before he told you he didn’t want to be a Sun… was there any question in your mind, “We’re matching this offer.”
Sarver: Yeah, there are questions as to how much money it is and that it’s pretty expensive, but the decision was to match. The decision was still wanted Joe Johnson as a Sun and I just kept looking for some encouragement from him that, “Hey, I want to be back in Phoenix.” Then I spoke to him and we had a good candid conversation, 25 minutes probably, and I walked away from there saying, “Oh my goodness. This is more than I thought.”
Gambo: We reported a couple weeks ago that money wasn’t the issue. The Phoenix Suns had determined that they could afford $70 million for Joe Johnson. Sure there would be some ramifications down the road, but did it get to that point where you were going to be able to match the $70 million, where it wasn’t a question of being able to come up with that kind of cash?
Sarver: We were going to match! As a matter of fact, Bryan went to his agent and said, “Would you consider $75 million over six years?”
Gambo: And what was their response?
Sarver: None. Zero. Zippo.
Gambo: So the Suns actually spoke to his agent about a six year, $75 million deal and you got no response from Joe Johnson?
Sarver: Zippo.
Gambo: So there were many indications from your point of view that told you that Joe didn’t want to be here?
Sarver: That’s right. And listen, I’m not trying to throw Joe under the bus. I mean, Joe has worked his tail off. He deserves the right to say what he wants and try to do what he wants. Joe’s a great guy. He contributed to our success. I love Joe. I wish Joe would say he loved us. But at the end of the day… you know, I talked to the guy for 25 minutes. I know a lot of people in the paper are saying it’s all about money, it’s a smoke screen and all that. But that is just B.S. We spent two minutes talking about the fact that he was frustrated that we didn’t come out of the box and offer him a max contract this time. He was frustrated, okay. But that was two minutes out of 25 minutes. The other 23 minutes were his reasons why he didn’t want to come to Phoenix. At the end of the conversation, I said, “Joe, this isn’t money anymore. We know what your contract is. Are you telling me you don’t want me to match this offer?” And he said, “Absolutely. I don’t want you match it.”
Gambo: It’s unbelievable. It’s hard for us to fathom why he would want to play for Atlanta over Phoenix.
Sarver: And I think that’s why so many people are saying, “Sarver, you’re full of B.S.” They can’t comprehend the fact that a guy would want to go from Phoenix to Atlanta, but he does!
Gambo: That’s pretty much where we’ve been all along, that he wants to play for Atlanta, and you can’t fault the Suns for not signing a guy that doesn’t want to be here. But was there ever a point where you said, “Screw it. You don’t want to be here, but I’ve got control of you. I’m going to match the offer, pay you the $70 million and you’re going to remain a Sun even though you don’t want to be here.” Did you guys ever discuss that?
Sarver: Yeah, I told him that on the phone when we were done. I said, “Joe, you say it’s all about business, I’m telling you it’s all about business. If you sign that offer with Atlanta, it’s getting matched. If you want that bad to get out of Phoenix and you want to be in Atlanta, then you better get them on the phone and have them call Bryan Colangelo and make us a deal that gets us fair compensation.” I told him.
Gambo: So you told him flat out that if he signed the offer, you’re matching the offer and keeping him here in Phoenix?
Sarver: Exactly.
Gambo: And that would have been the case, right? If he would have signed an offer sheet with Atlanta, you would have signed him?
Sarver: And you know what? That’s still the case.
Ash: We’re hearing all this stuff (re: Atlanta’s “procedural issue”)… I know you can’t get into it…
Sarver: I can’t get into any of that. I can’t get into any of that.
Ash: I get that. But at this point, if there’s ever a moment where he signs an offer sheet, you plan on matching? Can you answer that?
Sarver: Absolutely! I mean, I’m going to tell you, it scares me to sign a $70 million contract for a guy that says he doesn’t want to be there. I hope some of the (listeners) can understand that, but…
Ash: Can you talk about the financial ramifications down the road? Is it safe to say if you do sign Joe and you match that offer, five years, $70 million, and it’s front loaded and all that, somewhere down the road, whether it’s two years or three years, you’re going to have to pay the piper, if you know what I mean. You’re going to have to do some things because this team will be well over the luxury tax threshold?
Sarver: Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, there’s no doubt about it. If we don’t have Joe Johnson we have more flexibility. If we do have Joe Johnson we have less flexibility. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t be one of the lower priced ticket teams and have one of the higher payrolls. That doesn’t work.
I think we give our fans a great product. I think we’re exciting to watch. I think we’re fun to watch. Our tickets are cheaper than the Clippers, they’re cheaper than the Lakers, they’re cheaper than the Kings in our division. They’re a little bit more expensive than Golden State, but I think we’ve got a better show and a better team than everybody. But at some point in time, you can’t get too upside down and you can’t lose too much money. It just becomes too difficult.
Gambo: Robert, there was a story on ESPN.com, where Joe basically said that “I can put this behind me. If the Suns match, I’ll put this behind me.” Do you think that’s true? Do you think Joe could have put it behind him?
Sarver: I don’t know if it’s true or not. I really don’t. I think he had to say that, because he’s got to protect himself in case we match the contract and he’s got to come back. So I wouldn’t have expected him to say anything different. Whether he meant it or not, I don’t know.
I think at the end of the day, Joe’s a good person. I think Joe’s a competitor. I think Joe loves to play basketball. And I would think that if he does come back to Phoenix, that he will put it behind him, but I can’t be guaranteed, and that’s a big risk to take with $70 million. Plus, when the contract is front-end loaded, you can’t trade him. That’s another thing that some of your genius colleagues have been writing. “Well, you keep him for a year and then if it doesn’t work, you get rid of him.” You can’t. If you front-end load, you’ve got him for three or four years whether it works or doesn’t work.
Ash: Do you think this is all Joe Johnson, Robert, or do you think he’s getting bad advice?
Sarver: My honest opinion is he’s getting bad advice. I have no idea where it’s coming from. I don’t know where it is, whether it’s buddies, friends, advisors, agents, whatever. I Don’t really know… He’s very young. A good young man. Not real mature. Hasn’t been around the block a lot. And he’s getting a lot of advice from a lot of people and I think some of it’s probably not good. But in his own mind right now, he thinks Atlanta is best for him. But Shawn Marion told him it’s not. Steve Nash told him it’s not.
You’ve got to understand, our whole team, our coaches, everybody has been trying to get Joe Johnson. We put a beautiful book together we sent to him, that cost us about $10,000 to make, showing what the future is with him, projecting him in the Ring of Honor, projecting him as an All-Star. Our coaches went to his charity event, I donated money to it, the team donated money to it. Mike’s been trying to call him. I mean, we’ve had a full court pressure for Joe Johnson. It’s just a shame. It just boggles me. It really does.
Gambo: Do you feel comfortable in the back-up plan that you guys have put together in case you do lose Joe Johnson, as far as putting a competitive team on the court and trying to win a championship next year?
Sarver: Absolutely. I think we’re going to have a great team and I think we’re going to have a good run, not just next year, but for the next three or four or five years. The biggest way we’re going to get better, and the biggest way we’re going to be able to win a championship is Amaré Stoudemire. And the more he grows and the more he develops, the more that helps us.
Ash: Last question before we let you go… when this saga is all said and done, is that Amaré thing your main goal, to get that thing finished, lock him up?
Sarver: Absolutely.
Ash: Because you know some fans are now scared that Amaré may not…
Sarver: No, no, no, no. I’ve had plenty of conversations with Amaré. Amaré loves playing in front of Phoenix. He likes the team. He likes where we’re at. He recognizes the value of playing with Steve Nash and Shawn Marion. I think Amaré is happy. Amaré is doing two-a-day workouts on his own right now. Amaré is coming out with fire next year. That man is on a mission and that mission is to win a title. He’s going to get us there with or without Joe Johnson.
Gambo: So in a nutshell, the Suns were willing to go up to $75 million on a contract with Joe. They were willing to match the offer for Joe. This wasn’t a financial decision that the Suns couldn’t afford Joe. It had to do with a player that wasn’t committed to the cause. And that’s why you guys decided, at that point, that if you were going to lose him, you were going to get something for him.
Sarver: Those are the facts. I was all over Joe Johnson. I told him on the phone, “Joe, you’re killing me. If you don’t come back to Phoenix, my wife is going to kill me, my kids are going to be balling, and all of the fans are going to be ready to kill me. You’re killing me. Are you sure you don’t want to win a championship, Joe? C’mon, we’re close to winning a championship and you’ll make the same amount of money.” He said, “Winning a championship would be great, but it’s more important for me to be happy. And I’ll be happier in Atlanta.”
Gambo: Let’s go back, Robert. Let’s start with last year, because that’s really when everybody started talking about Joe and Joe hitting restricted free agency. Last year, you bypassed the opportunity to sign Joe. What were some of the reasons why you elected not to sign him to an extension when you had exclusive rights to him?
Sarver: The main reason is I’d just bought the team. We committed a lot of money up front and we hadn’t really proven yet how successful the team was going to be, and I was reluctant to lock in the starting five, all with big contracts, with a team that we didn’t know was going to be that successful. At the beginning, having some flexibility was worth something. It really wasn’t anything to do with Joe because everybody liked Joe and everyone thought Joe was a good player. It was just not knowing how successful our format was going to be. I mean, everybody was predicting us to do a lot worse than we did. You know, we weren’t even predicted to make the playoffs last year.
Ash: We’ve said this all along… and I remember back in that day, even John and I were saying, “I don’t know if Joe is worth a big, $50 million contract,” because we just didn’t know. In hindsight now, it’s very easy to look back and say that it would have been great to get Joe for six years and $50 million. At the time, Robert, did you ever think that Joe Johnson would become a max type player, or that he would receive a max type offer the following year?
Sarver: You know, I thought he was going to make more money. I remember I saw him in L.A. at the Clippers game right afterwards and I said, “Joe, I feel bad. You’re a great guy. Everybody loves you here. Go out and have yourself a helluva year. You’re going to make more money. I hope you end up in a Phoenix Suns jersey. But right now, I just couldn’t lock in the future.”
I don’t think I thought I he was going to be a max player. I don’t think anyone thought he was going to be a max player. I don’t think anyone thought the Suns were going to be as successful as they were. I don’t think anyone thought Steve Nash was going to be able to help the team as much as he did. I just don’t think anyone predicted the whole season.
Gambo: You know, this was the first year where Joe became like a star player, a really good player. Even last year, like Ash said, me and Ash both thought that the Suns were doing the right thing in not signing Joe to the extension, because you still had the right to match any offer. It’s not like Joe was getting unrestricted free agency. It was just restricted free agency, so you could still match any offer he had. You had another year to evaluate him as a player. During the season, Robert… Joe is a pretty quiet guy. We’ve had him on the show a bunch of times and we never really saw an indication… did you or anybody in the organization see an indication that Joe was unhappy?
Sarver: Not really. I mean, there are things that come up from time to time with players, about a game or about this or that, but that’s pretty much typical. We thought Joe was pretty happy in Phoenix.
Gambo: Was there a point in the season, maybe when you guys started to have all those sellouts or when you realized you were going to be a playoff team, or maybe after you had a lot of home playoff games that built in some more revenue, what point in the season did you realize that you fully intended to sign Joe to a contract and keep him in a Suns uniform?
Sarver: Oh, I would say before the season was kind of half way over, we knew we had a successful format. When we got off to like 20-4 or something, I said “Hey, this looks good.” I remember we had a series where we beat Miami and Indiana back to back in Phoenix and that’s when I said, “Geez, we’re really good.”
But as I told Jerry and everyone back then, I’d much rather pay more for something that I know is going to work than pay less for something that’s not going to work. So I didn’t have any problem paying Joe Johnson more money.
Ash: The season ends, obviously not exactly what you guys wanted, but a very successful season nonetheless…
Sarver: It was better than we wanted. I mean, of course we wanted to farther, but I mean, I was so proud with the way the team played.
Ash: Oh, absolutely. And you had to be proud and I think everyone was, but now the offseason. There were questions about what was going to happen and you guys made the statement that your No. 1 priority – you said it or Bryan (Colangelo) said it, as well, I think – was bringing back Joe Johnson. So at that point, when the season ended, there was no question about it. No matter what he was going to get, you guys were bringing back Joe, correct?
Sarver: Right.
Ash: The offseason, going into it, you guys made a couple of moves. Did you realize, or at what point did you realize, that maybe that six years, $50 million wasn’t going to quite cut it? And maybe you had to make some moves to get a little bit more financial room to make that deal?
Sarver: Yeah, we kind of knew that. I mean, I didn’t really know. But this turned out to be a great year for Joe and for the two-guards. I mean, this was kind of the year of the two-guards. They all got a bunch of money. Obviously, Ray Allen is the star, marquee player in Seattle, Michael Redd is the draw in Milwaukee, and Joe had a team that was willing to pay him a bunch of money. So good for Joe.
Gambo: I think what Ash is getting at, you guys made some moves. Was part of the reason that you traded Q (Richardson), and released the $2 million on Jake (Voskuhl)’s salary to give yourself a stronger position to make sure you keep Joe Johnson?
Sarver: Yeah, part of it was that. And also part of it was we thought we could get quicker by releasing Q. You know, Q is a great shooter and he gets the ball off quick, but I think you’ll see with Raja Bell out there, we’re a faster team than with Q out there. And also defensively…
Ash: Well, and Kurt Thomas. You wanted a center for Amaré (Stoudemire) and Kurt fit the bill perfectly.
Sarver: Yes, we needed help rebounding and as you guys saw, we need people that could stop these guys from making lay-ups down the middle on us. We need someone to stop Manu Ginobili. We needed some defensive toughness and we wanted to stay quick. Raja Bell and Kurt Thomas just answered both of those (needs).
Gambo: You go out there and you offer Joe, initially, six years, $60 million…
Sarver: Well, kinda. I mean, we tried to go meet with him first. The first thing, we had a meeting – Amaré and I, Bryan and Jerry (Colangelo), and Mike D’Antoni – had set up a meeting. We were going to fly out to Arkansas to meet with Joe. We found out the second day of the time you could meet that he had planned on being in L.A… so we made arrangements to meet in Los Angeles at their house. We were going to go there and talk about trying to get a deal, with the idea of coming away with a deal just like we did with Steve Nash (last summer). We got a call a day later that said it was cancelled, “Joe’s busy. He’s got other things to do with his buddies. He’s going to spend the weekend with his buddies.” He’s not meeting with us and not only that, they don’t really have any reason to meet.
Gambo: I had spoken with a few of the players on the team, I guess, three or four weeks ago and the indication that I got from those players was that Joe wanted to leave. Joe didn’t want to be here. Joe wanted to be an All-Star in Atlanta and he didn’t think he could be an All-Star here playing with Amaré and Steve and Shawn (Marion). And that he wanted to be the cornerstone of a team, not the fourth wheel. Me and Ash reported that about three weeks ago. I think some people thought we were crazy when we first mentioned that Joe wanted to play in Atlanta, but that was the truth. At what point… was it when that meeting was cancelled that you started to get an indication that Joe really didn’t want to be a Sun anymore?
Sarver: Kinda, but I didn’t really think that was the case. I just said, “Okay, they’re posturing. This is how business is. They want to get as much money as they can.” But we kept asking, “When can we meet? When can we meet?” And they kept saying, “We don’t want to meet. It’s all about the money. Send the money. Give us an offer. We don’t want you to tell us how much you love him. Just send us the money. Tell us how much it is.” We got on the phone with Joe that night and we said, “Joe, we want to meet with you? We love you. We want you in Phoenix. What will it take to make you a Sun?” His agent said, “Max offer.” Well, you know, we probably weren’t prepared to do that right away because we had the right to match a max offer anyway.
Then about a week later, we decided, okay let’s give him an offer. So we looked around. Well, Steve Nash got $66 million over six years. Manu Ginobili signed for $53 million over six. I thought that wasn’t a bad comp. Manu’s a pretty good player. And so we said, “Okay, you want an offer? Here’s an offer. $60 million. Come back to us.” They came back to us and said, “You know, we’re just not interested.” We asked, “Do you have a counter?” and they said, “No, we’re just going to pursue different options.” So we didn’t get anywhere.
We just kept calling and calling. “Can we meet? Can we meet?” We knew they were looking at a deal with Atlanta, and with all the frustration, I finally told Jerry, “Maybe I’ll just get on a plane and go find the guy. I mean, how hard… I can’t get ahold of him. Maybe I’ll just go find him. I’ll fly into Little Rock.” Jerry said, “Well, maybe we ought to call first, so I called and spoke to his mom, trying to get a call back. I said, “I’m coming in tomorrow, give me 45 minutes, an hour to meet with you,” and I got a call back from his agent’s secretary saying, “He’s busy. He can’t meet.” Then he cancelled two other meetings. Finally, we got a telephone call set up and that’s when I spoke to him last Thursday, and that’s when he validated that he really was preferring to be in Atlanta.
Ash: We had heard the Atlanta offer, five years, $70 million, front loaded, a lot of money up front. At that point, when you heard the five and $70, you still as the Phoenix Suns with the rights to Joe Johnson. When you first heard it, was there any question in your mind… this is before he told you he didn’t want to be a Sun… was there any question in your mind, “We’re matching this offer.”
Sarver: Yeah, there are questions as to how much money it is and that it’s pretty expensive, but the decision was to match. The decision was still wanted Joe Johnson as a Sun and I just kept looking for some encouragement from him that, “Hey, I want to be back in Phoenix.” Then I spoke to him and we had a good candid conversation, 25 minutes probably, and I walked away from there saying, “Oh my goodness. This is more than I thought.”
Gambo: We reported a couple weeks ago that money wasn’t the issue. The Phoenix Suns had determined that they could afford $70 million for Joe Johnson. Sure there would be some ramifications down the road, but did it get to that point where you were going to be able to match the $70 million, where it wasn’t a question of being able to come up with that kind of cash?
Sarver: We were going to match! As a matter of fact, Bryan went to his agent and said, “Would you consider $75 million over six years?”
Gambo: And what was their response?
Sarver: None. Zero. Zippo.
Gambo: So the Suns actually spoke to his agent about a six year, $75 million deal and you got no response from Joe Johnson?
Sarver: Zippo.
Gambo: So there were many indications from your point of view that told you that Joe didn’t want to be here?
Sarver: That’s right. And listen, I’m not trying to throw Joe under the bus. I mean, Joe has worked his tail off. He deserves the right to say what he wants and try to do what he wants. Joe’s a great guy. He contributed to our success. I love Joe. I wish Joe would say he loved us. But at the end of the day… you know, I talked to the guy for 25 minutes. I know a lot of people in the paper are saying it’s all about money, it’s a smoke screen and all that. But that is just B.S. We spent two minutes talking about the fact that he was frustrated that we didn’t come out of the box and offer him a max contract this time. He was frustrated, okay. But that was two minutes out of 25 minutes. The other 23 minutes were his reasons why he didn’t want to come to Phoenix. At the end of the conversation, I said, “Joe, this isn’t money anymore. We know what your contract is. Are you telling me you don’t want me to match this offer?” And he said, “Absolutely. I don’t want you match it.”
Gambo: It’s unbelievable. It’s hard for us to fathom why he would want to play for Atlanta over Phoenix.
Sarver: And I think that’s why so many people are saying, “Sarver, you’re full of B.S.” They can’t comprehend the fact that a guy would want to go from Phoenix to Atlanta, but he does!
Gambo: That’s pretty much where we’ve been all along, that he wants to play for Atlanta, and you can’t fault the Suns for not signing a guy that doesn’t want to be here. But was there ever a point where you said, “Screw it. You don’t want to be here, but I’ve got control of you. I’m going to match the offer, pay you the $70 million and you’re going to remain a Sun even though you don’t want to be here.” Did you guys ever discuss that?
Sarver: Yeah, I told him that on the phone when we were done. I said, “Joe, you say it’s all about business, I’m telling you it’s all about business. If you sign that offer with Atlanta, it’s getting matched. If you want that bad to get out of Phoenix and you want to be in Atlanta, then you better get them on the phone and have them call Bryan Colangelo and make us a deal that gets us fair compensation.” I told him.
Gambo: So you told him flat out that if he signed the offer, you’re matching the offer and keeping him here in Phoenix?
Sarver: Exactly.
Gambo: And that would have been the case, right? If he would have signed an offer sheet with Atlanta, you would have signed him?
Sarver: And you know what? That’s still the case.
Ash: We’re hearing all this stuff (re: Atlanta’s “procedural issue”)… I know you can’t get into it…
Sarver: I can’t get into any of that. I can’t get into any of that.
Ash: I get that. But at this point, if there’s ever a moment where he signs an offer sheet, you plan on matching? Can you answer that?
Sarver: Absolutely! I mean, I’m going to tell you, it scares me to sign a $70 million contract for a guy that says he doesn’t want to be there. I hope some of the (listeners) can understand that, but…
Ash: Can you talk about the financial ramifications down the road? Is it safe to say if you do sign Joe and you match that offer, five years, $70 million, and it’s front loaded and all that, somewhere down the road, whether it’s two years or three years, you’re going to have to pay the piper, if you know what I mean. You’re going to have to do some things because this team will be well over the luxury tax threshold?
Sarver: Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, there’s no doubt about it. If we don’t have Joe Johnson we have more flexibility. If we do have Joe Johnson we have less flexibility. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t be one of the lower priced ticket teams and have one of the higher payrolls. That doesn’t work.
I think we give our fans a great product. I think we’re exciting to watch. I think we’re fun to watch. Our tickets are cheaper than the Clippers, they’re cheaper than the Lakers, they’re cheaper than the Kings in our division. They’re a little bit more expensive than Golden State, but I think we’ve got a better show and a better team than everybody. But at some point in time, you can’t get too upside down and you can’t lose too much money. It just becomes too difficult.
Gambo: Robert, there was a story on ESPN.com, where Joe basically said that “I can put this behind me. If the Suns match, I’ll put this behind me.” Do you think that’s true? Do you think Joe could have put it behind him?
Sarver: I don’t know if it’s true or not. I really don’t. I think he had to say that, because he’s got to protect himself in case we match the contract and he’s got to come back. So I wouldn’t have expected him to say anything different. Whether he meant it or not, I don’t know.
I think at the end of the day, Joe’s a good person. I think Joe’s a competitor. I think Joe loves to play basketball. And I would think that if he does come back to Phoenix, that he will put it behind him, but I can’t be guaranteed, and that’s a big risk to take with $70 million. Plus, when the contract is front-end loaded, you can’t trade him. That’s another thing that some of your genius colleagues have been writing. “Well, you keep him for a year and then if it doesn’t work, you get rid of him.” You can’t. If you front-end load, you’ve got him for three or four years whether it works or doesn’t work.
Ash: Do you think this is all Joe Johnson, Robert, or do you think he’s getting bad advice?
Sarver: My honest opinion is he’s getting bad advice. I have no idea where it’s coming from. I don’t know where it is, whether it’s buddies, friends, advisors, agents, whatever. I Don’t really know… He’s very young. A good young man. Not real mature. Hasn’t been around the block a lot. And he’s getting a lot of advice from a lot of people and I think some of it’s probably not good. But in his own mind right now, he thinks Atlanta is best for him. But Shawn Marion told him it’s not. Steve Nash told him it’s not.
You’ve got to understand, our whole team, our coaches, everybody has been trying to get Joe Johnson. We put a beautiful book together we sent to him, that cost us about $10,000 to make, showing what the future is with him, projecting him in the Ring of Honor, projecting him as an All-Star. Our coaches went to his charity event, I donated money to it, the team donated money to it. Mike’s been trying to call him. I mean, we’ve had a full court pressure for Joe Johnson. It’s just a shame. It just boggles me. It really does.
Gambo: Do you feel comfortable in the back-up plan that you guys have put together in case you do lose Joe Johnson, as far as putting a competitive team on the court and trying to win a championship next year?
Sarver: Absolutely. I think we’re going to have a great team and I think we’re going to have a good run, not just next year, but for the next three or four or five years. The biggest way we’re going to get better, and the biggest way we’re going to be able to win a championship is Amaré Stoudemire. And the more he grows and the more he develops, the more that helps us.
Ash: Last question before we let you go… when this saga is all said and done, is that Amaré thing your main goal, to get that thing finished, lock him up?
Sarver: Absolutely.
Ash: Because you know some fans are now scared that Amaré may not…
Sarver: No, no, no, no. I’ve had plenty of conversations with Amaré. Amaré loves playing in front of Phoenix. He likes the team. He likes where we’re at. He recognizes the value of playing with Steve Nash and Shawn Marion. I think Amaré is happy. Amaré is doing two-a-day workouts on his own right now. Amaré is coming out with fire next year. That man is on a mission and that mission is to win a title. He’s going to get us there with or without Joe Johnson.
Gambo: So in a nutshell, the Suns were willing to go up to $75 million on a contract with Joe. They were willing to match the offer for Joe. This wasn’t a financial decision that the Suns couldn’t afford Joe. It had to do with a player that wasn’t committed to the cause. And that’s why you guys decided, at that point, that if you were going to lose him, you were going to get something for him.
Sarver: Those are the facts. I was all over Joe Johnson. I told him on the phone, “Joe, you’re killing me. If you don’t come back to Phoenix, my wife is going to kill me, my kids are going to be balling, and all of the fans are going to be ready to kill me. You’re killing me. Are you sure you don’t want to win a championship, Joe? C’mon, we’re close to winning a championship and you’ll make the same amount of money.” He said, “Winning a championship would be great, but it’s more important for me to be happy. And I’ll be happier in Atlanta.”
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