Trevor Ariza to Washington for Kelly Oubre and Austin Rivers.

[Mr. Boldin]

From what's been rumored, the Clips are looking to trade Harris so they have the room to sign 2 max deals, i.e. Durant and Leonard. Keeping Harris on his current deal won't allow that.

Not true.

Tobias is a free agent this summer, so his salary has nothing to do with the Clippers not having room for two max slots. They can simply renounce his cap hold to free up additional cap space, which would be an ultimate last resort move.

The Clippers would be looking to move Gallinari ($22.6 mil expiring next season) and Avery Bradley ($2 mil guaranteed next year). This would leave the Clippers a few million shy of a 10 year vet max for Durant, and the 7-10 year vey max deal for Kawhi. I seriously doubt that would hold them back from signing either.

That said, the more realistic scenario is signing Kawhi to a max, and then resigning Tobias. Kawhi has been the Clippers top target for nearly two years now, this I know.

Also, I am the resident Clipper fan, and covered them for nearly four years.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Not true.

Tobias is a free agent this summer, so his salary has nothing to do with the Clippers not having room for two max slots. They can simply renounce his cap hold to free up additional cap space, which would be an ultimate last resort move.

The Clippers would be looking to move Gallinari ($22.6 mil expiring next season) and Avery Bradley ($2 mil guaranteed next year). This would leave the Clippers a few million shy of a 10 year vet max for Durant, and the 7-10 year vey max deal for Kawhi. I seriously doubt that would hold them back from signing either.

That said, the more realistic scenario is signing Kawhi to a max, and then resigning Tobias. Kawhi has been the Clippers top target for nearly two years now, this I know.

Also, I am the resident Clipper fan, and covered them for nearly four years.

Not exactly. If they are not planning to resign him, I could see them trying to trade him for other expirings and picks or other capital. I think that was the point being made.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Not exactly. If they are not planning to resign him, I could see them trying to trade him for other expirings and picks or other capital. I think that was the point being made.

It would be very, very unlikely they decide to trade Tobias, unless its a sign and trade this summer. They already offered him an extension, which he declined. It makes much more sense for the Clippers to see what happens this summer before moving on Tobias. Keep in mind, the Clippers are going to be in the playoff race all season long.

Additionally, they have already extended Lou Williams, re-signed Bradley and paid Harrell. They did all this with their cap flexibility in mind for this summer. The extension offered to Tobias was another bargain deal, which they were able to achieve with the three guys I mentioned. No reason to deal Tobias during the season unless its an offer they cant turn down, especially considering they have a clear path to one max slot already.

 

[leclerc]

How would including a guy making 8 million in salary who is not playing up to that salary help move a guy making 16 million salary earning none of it when nearly every team in the league is at or above available cap space currently.

I'll give you the answer it wouldn't. Nobody would want Jackson as is unless they could offload salary or get picks, let alone take on the most worthless 16 million dollar player in the league.

Statistically Jackson is the worst player in the league.

If you really think teams are so anxious to just take on high contract potential guys - tell me why nobody has traded for Fultz yet.

Jackson is a legit young talent. He's about 20 and did wonders last year (his first). He has not got it going this year but it's just a matter of time until he gets it. He plays with energy and he cares. His defense is great. He often makes great plays. He's about the only guy capable of throwing a lob -- but that doesn't say much. You don't quit on a guy like that in his second year. You must be able to look up and look some years down the road. Are you confusing Archie Goodwin for Josh Jackson? Are you thinking Bender and Jackson are on par, high picks, should automatically develop as NBA starters in 2 years with the current circus of changing personel in all positions?

I agree to get something good you have to give something good, and there is no doubt Jackson is something good.

 

[leclerc]

I am pessimistic about the trade. Austin is getting dealt too often. Probably a reason for this. Kelly Oubre? Meh. I don't know if there were a better trade out there for Ariza, so I am happy that they ($arver, Jones, etc) did not take any large contracts or traded away any high picks. Hope I will be pleasantly surprised and eat some crow.

 

[SirStefan32]

Jackson is a legit young talent. He's about 20 and did wonders last year (his first). He has not got it going this year but it's just a matter of time until he gets it. He plays with energy and he cares. His defense is great. He often makes great plays. He's about the only guy capable of throwing a lob -- but that doesn't say much. You don't quit on a guy like that in his second year. You must be able to look up and look some years down the road. Are you confusing Archie Goodwin for Josh Jackson? Are you thinking Bender and Jackson are on par, high picks, should automatically develop as NBA starters in 2 years with the current circus of changing personel in all positions?

I agree to get something good you have to give something good, and there is no doubt Jackson is something good.

Jackson is statistically, one of the worst players in the NBA. If I remember correctly, he was either number one or number three on the list as recently as last week. He can't shoot, he jumps without a plan (shoot, pass, etc), turns the ball over, misses shots, and makes terrible decisions. Nobody is giving anything good for that. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT saying we should declare him a bust and move on. I am just saying that right now he has about as much value as Bender and Chriss.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Jackson is statistically, one of the worst players in the NBA. If I remember correctly, he was either number one or number three on the list as recently as last week. He can't shoot, he jumps without a plan (shoot, pass, etc), turns the ball over, misses shots, and makes terrible decisions. Nobody is giving anything good for that. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT saying we should declare him a bust and move on. I am just saying that right now he has about as much value as Bender and Chriss.

One of the worst (offensive) players. The difference between him and someone like Bender for instance is that he is at least playable on one end of the floor. He just needs to be told to stop trying to do so much on offense. At least until he figures out how to be more efficient on that end.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Jackson is statistically, one of the worst players in the NBA. If I remember correctly, he was either number one or number three on the list as recently as last week. He can't shoot, he jumps without a plan (shoot, pass, etc), turns the ball over, misses shots, and makes terrible decisions. Nobody is giving anything good for that. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT saying we should declare him a bust and move on. I am just saying that right now he has about as much value as Bender and Chriss.

I think Jackson would be helped by sitting some. He needs to focus on playing well in short periods of time an build on that. When he is the third string sf, it might actually dawn on him that he does know how to play bad basketball, and he needs to unlearn it quick.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think Jackson would be helped by sitting some. He needs to focus on playing well in short periods of time an build on that. When he is the third string sf, it might actually dawn on him that he does know how to play bad basketball, and he needs to unlearn it quick.

I tend to agree. With Oubre coming over, I would limit JJ to about five minutes per game. If he does not do anything stupid, play him more. If he does his signature stupid moves, then have him join Anderson and Bender on the bench for a game or two. Trouble with Jackson is not that he is bad, but that he thinks he is good. I honestly think that in his mind, he is better than Booker. He needs to "limit" his game to his strengths. Triano did this with Len last year. He limited him to rebounding and the low post. Jackson needs to limit himself to playing defense, making simple passes on offense and cutting to the basket without the basketball. No dribbling, absolutely no jumpers off the dribble. If you are wide-open and set, take a jumper, but that's about it. That would maximize his positives while reducing his negatives. Meanwhile, he needs to pull a TJ Warren and shoot thousands of threes every single day.

 

[Sunburn]

Bickley and Marriota today said Jackson is a high IQ basketball player. Um, what?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Jackson is statistically, one of the worst players in the NBA. If I remember correctly, he was either number one or number three on the list as recently as last week. He can't shoot, he jumps without a plan (shoot, pass, etc), turns the ball over, misses shots, and makes terrible decisions. Nobody is giving anything good for that. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT saying we should declare him a bust and move on. I am just saying that right now he has about as much value as Bender and Chriss.

No way. Bender and Chriss have established over multiple seasons to be busts. JJ is a third into his second season and flashed last year and doesn’t show attitude like Chriss or timidity like bender. Same value? No way.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Jackson is statistically, one of the worst players in the NBA. If I remember correctly, he was either number one or number three on the list as recently as last week. He can't shoot, he jumps without a plan (shoot, pass, etc), turns the ball over, misses shots, and makes terrible decisions. Nobody is giving anything good for that. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT saying we should declare him a bust and move on. I am just saying that right now he has about as much value as Bender and Chriss.

According to RPM, Josh Jackson is ranked 447 out of 455. RPM is a bit cloudy over short periods, and is more reliable across multiple years. That said, he was ranked 495 out of 521 last season.

 

[1Sun]

Bickley and Marriota today said Jackson is a high IQ basketball player. Um, what?

He historically is...with the right coaching.

 

[Hoop Head]

Bickley and Marriota today said Jackson is a high IQ basketball player. Um, what?

Bickley is a fool. He makes Gambo look like Woj or Lowe. He's a homer who doesn't know the NBA or NFL from what I've heard. He may not know the NHL or MLB either but I don't follow those leagues enough to judge him. He has to be one of the worst local sports personalities.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Bickley is a fool. He makes Gambo look like Woj or Lowe. He's a homer who doesn't know the NBA or NFL from what I've heard. He may not know the NHL or MLB either but I don't follow those leagues enough to judge him. He has to be one of the worst local sports personalities.

He is not a homer. He is a Chicago style reporter that loves to complain about his home teams. His knowledge is decent but his opinions stink. If he is commending JJ you can bet it is the context ripping the team at large in some way.

 

[Mainstreet]

I am pessimistic about the trade. Austin is getting dealt too often. Probably a reason for this. Kelly Oubre? Meh. I don't know if there were a better trade out there for Ariza, so I am happy that they ($arver, Jones, etc) did not take any large contracts or traded away any high picks. Hope I will be pleasantly surprised and eat some crow.

I don't think you will be pessimistic about the Ariza trade after reading this article.

Ariza checked out mentally early in the season, according to sources. After practices would ended, he’d leave before everyone else, when that's usually an opportunity to bond.

He'd break from the team huddle before his teammates and wasn’t engaged.

So the Suns ended up making a deal for Ariza on the first day they could after working on several before he could officially be traded Dec. 15.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...d-trevor-ariza-washington-wizards/2334155002/

It sounds like the Suns will be much better off without him.

 

[Mainstreet]

Also from the same article.

Rivers and Oubre are expected to join the Suns in Boston as Phoenix is starting at five-game road trip Monday night against the New York Knicks.

"I know, we know both of them, both of those guys," Kokoskov said after Monday's shootaround. "They've been in the league for a long time. We know who they are and I think they're going to help us. We need some help. We need some NBA talent."

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...d-trevor-ariza-washington-wizards/2334155002/

 

[SirStefan32]

Heh, interesting choice of words by Igor. I think Ouchie and I had a couple of posts today about the NBA talent and the Suns.

What I think will be really interesting to see is how Igor handles the new guys vs. the guys responsible for the current level of play (possibly a three-game winning streak after tonight.)
Does he stay with Melton in the starting unit or does he go to Rivers almost immediately? Does Oubre take Ariza's minutes, or does Bridges play more minutes and then the rest are divided between Jackson and Oubre? I am a huge Igor fan, but I think he really values the experience and I am guessing he'll use the new guys more than the ones who have brought us the last two wins. I think that would be a mistake.

Also, I am really disappointed in Ariza. He's always been one of my favorite players in the league. I understand that losing is tough, but for a veteran to check out is just really disappointing, especially when the new head coach specifically said he wanted the GM to sign you to help teach the youngsters. I mean, I wish him well, but I am disappointed.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Also from the same article.



https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...d-trevor-ariza-washington-wizards/2334155002/

O my goodness. That is one of the worst written articles I have ever read from an established news outlet.

Ariza checked out mentally early in the season, according to sources. After practices would ended, he’d leave before everyone else, when that's usually an opportunity to bond.

So the Suns ended up making a deal for Ariza on the first day they could after working on several before he could officially be traded Dec. 15.

Phoenix tried to trade him back home to Los Angeles where he won an NBA title with the Lakers, but that move drew the ire of team owner Robert Sarver, after the team bought out Tyson Chandler and he wounded up there.

Rivers and Oubre are expected to join the Suns in Boston as Phoenix is starting at five-game road trip Monday night against the New York Knicks.

Ariza also said he “didn’t have anything to do with” the trade talk, but he wasn’t interested in staying in Phoenix and the feeling was mutual for the Suns.
That’s why he’s isn’t in New York getting ready to help the Phoenix beat the Knicks on Monday night despite being so “loved” in the Suns locker room.

 

[Mainstreet]

O my goodness. That is one of the worst written articles I have ever read from an established news outlet.

Ariza checked out mentally early in the season, according to sources. After practices would ended, he’d leave before everyone else, when that's usually an opportunity to bond.

So the Suns ended up making a deal for Ariza on the first day they could after working on several before he could officially be traded Dec. 15.

Plus, Los Angeles wasn’t going to part ways with any of their young core for him as part of a reported three-team deal.

Phoenix tried to trade him back home to Los Angeles where he won an NBA title with the Lakers, but that move drew the ire of team owner Robert Sarver, after the team bought out Tyson Chandler and he wounded up there.

Rivers and Oubre are expected to join the Suns in Boston as Phoenix is starting at five-game road trip Monday night against the New York Knicks.

Ariza also said he “didn’t have anything to do with” the trade talk, but he wasn’t interested in staying in Phoenix and the feeling was mutual for the Suns.
That’s why he’s isn’t in New York getting ready to help the Phoenix beat the Knicks on Monday night despite being so “loved” in the Suns locker room.

Like any article, take it for what it is worth. I think the content is close to the truth. Maybe we will find out more in the coming days.

As for the grammar, it stands for itself.

 

[Proximo]

No way. Bender and Chriss have established over multiple seasons to be busts. JJ is a third into his second season and flashed last year and doesn’t show attitude like Chriss or timidity like bender. Same value? No way.

Here is the thing though how many players that really turn out to be good still suck after a year and a half in the league?

Very few. Everybody expecting a good result from Jackson at this point is expecting the exception to the rule.

He really has no excuse at this point, he has been healthy, he is above average athletically, but he still can’t seem to understand how to play to his strengths.

 

[Mainstreet]

Heh, interesting choice of words by Igor. I think Ouchie and I had a couple of posts today about the NBA talent and the Suns.

What I think will be really interesting to see is how Igor handles the new guys vs. the guys responsible for the current level of play (possibly a three-game winning streak after tonight.)
Does he stay with Melton in the starting unit or does he go to Rivers almost immediately? Does Oubre take Ariza's minutes, or does Bridges play more minutes and then the rest are divided between Jackson and Oubre? I am a huge Igor fan, but I think he really values the experience and I am guessing he'll use the new guys more than the ones who have brought us the last two wins. I think that would be a mistake.

Also, I am really disappointed in Ariza. He's always been one of my favorite players in the league. I understand that losing is tough, but for a veteran to check out is just really disappointing, especially when the new head coach specifically said he wanted the GM to sign you to help teach the youngsters. I mean, I wish him well, but I am disappointed.

At least Igor has options now with NBA talent who want to play.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He is not a homer. He is a Chicago style reporter that loves to complain about his home teams. His knowledge is decent but his opinions stink. If he is commending JJ you can bet it is the context ripping the team at large in some way.

Yeah, unless his full name is Dan Homer Bickley, he is not a Homer. Far from it.

 

[taz02]

I don't think you will be pessimistic about the Ariza trade after reading this article.



https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...d-trevor-ariza-washington-wizards/2334155002/

It sounds like the Suns will be much better off without him.

If this was true why was he playing even starting?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Here is the thing though how many players that really turn out to be good still suck after a year and a half in the league?

Very few. Everybody expecting a good result from Jackson at this point is expecting the exception to the rule.

He really has no excuse at this point, he has been healthy, he is above average athletically, but he still can’t seem to understand how to play to his strengths.

Regardless of stats or rankings, he has done some phenomenal things since he entered the league. How many busts do that in their first 1 and a quarter seasons? And how many do that on a team that's been in disarray and has gone through 3 coaches during his short stay? And of the few this applies to, how many give full effort every night. I think he's more likely to figure it out than fail. And even if I'm wrong, what's the real cost of continuing to develop him? I would tie his minutes more closely to his performance but his growth should still be a major focus of this coaching staff.