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Stout

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And no credit for making up narratives that are not there.

Credit for trying? WTF are you talking about?

The question here is simple:
Would you have preferred Monti to make more even contract and used up the cap already?

Or

Do you like the flexibility Monti has created to add more player or try to trade for someone?

Just answer your preference?
Oh, spend the cap and bring in the players, every time. Saving the money you need for rookies/injury pool, use your damned resources If you want to use them to extend a player that actually needs extended? That's fine, so long as you're using it up. Unless you absolutely have one in the pocket, a trade you are quite certain will happen, it makes no sense not to.

As to your "WTF" am I talking about? I highlighted it for you. You don't think it's a bad idea for our GM to set aside resources for moves that never happen. You're good with him sitting on a pile of cap space for...nothing at all, because he thought he could do something but didn't pull it off. Don't "WTF" me. You knew exactly what I was talking about. It's the same with the OG he tried to sign. He doesn't get credit for identifying a need and then not filling it adequately (note that he still has time to fill the hole). He doesn't get credit merely for trying to sign the guy, and he can't possibly get credit for setting money aside for a big trade if he never makes a big trade. That's crazy land logic.
 
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Keim = cap space hell & lots of dead money.
MO = too much cap space not used & very little dead money.

I know which one I prefer.
 

Stout

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Keim = cap space hell & lots of dead money.
MO = too much cap space not used & very little dead money.

I know which one I prefer.
Yeah, not a binary discussion. We could have:

GM = utilizes cap well and minimizes dead money.

You do realize your boy Monti pushed money into the future with deals this offseason, just to save some of this cap space for...checks notes...keeping his powder dry?
 

football karma

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the Cards are in a really good cap situation -- space, not a ton of free agents coming up, pretty low voidable season overhang in the future.

its also pretty easy to get in a really good cap situation if you are ok with not winning very many games for a couple seasons

the real test will be keeping the key pieces of the roster together IF they get the roster to regular playoff appearances without totally hamstringing yourself cap wise.

Keim could never consistently draft well enough to do that --
 

kerouac9

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the Cards are in a really good cap situation -- space, not a ton of free agents coming up, pretty low voidable season overhang in the future.

its also pretty easy to get in a really good cap situation if you are ok with not winning very many games for a couple seasons

the real test will be keeping the key pieces of the roster together IF they get the roster to regular playoff appearances without totally hamstringing yourself cap wise.

Keim could never consistently draft well enough to do that --
Also it’s worth remembering that two of our three best players (Conner and Budda) are on the backside of their prime years and the third (McBride) was drafted by the previous guy.
 

BigDavis75

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Also it’s worth remembering that two of our three best players (Conner and Budda) are on the backside of their prime years and the third (McBride) was drafted by the previous guy.

I wouldn’t expect the best players on a team to have two years or less of experience re: Montis drafts. Also, all three players you mentioned were extended by Monti.
 

Cheesebeef

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Keim = cap space hell & lots of dead money.
MO = too much cap space not used & very little dead money.

I know which one I prefer.
Cub, to be fair, you consistently defended Keim and are predisposed to prefer any modus operendi a Cards GM sees fit until after they’re fired.

And you present the above as the only two possible options. What about a GM who uses the cap to the most of it’s possibilities AND minimizes dead money.
 

PDXChris

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Here is some high level analysis on cap space from 2024 season ending to now, plus rookie pool. It is ordered by current cap space.

There is sure to be more spending on post draft FA and extensions, but you can spending all of your cap doesn't mean a winning team. When you look at the bottom 16 here who spent more, 8 made the playoffs and 8 missed. For the teams that spent less, 6 made the playoffs and 10 missed. Of those 10 that missed, 5 are rebuilding.

The two best records in each conference are polar opposites too. Chiefs near the bottom and the Lions at the top.

My conclusion? The cap is meaningless and players matter.

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kerouac9

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I wouldn’t expect the best players on a team to have two years or less of experience re: Montis drafts. Also, all three players you mentioned were extended by Monti.

Really? You wouldn't expect two top 10 draft picks to be in the top handful of players for a team that started out 8-26?
 

BigDavis75

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I'd include Kyler on that list. Then... Josh Sweat and Froholdt? How far do you have to get before you land on a Monti draftee?
Williams is the best one, I’d put him over Conner. Pjj is a top 5-10 player as well on the team. The team is pretty devoid of talent at the top so I would be disappointed if a few of his draftees don’t move into the top 5/top 10 this next year.
 

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Come on… I’m not a Monti Cheerleader, but PJJ is better than Froholdt.
PJJ has more positional value, to be sure. Missed three games, played pretty mid in the second half of the season.

I don't put a lot of stock in it, but PJJ had an Approximate Value of 7 last season; Froholdt's was 8. Availability probably matters more than anything else when it comes to OL.
 

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Williams is the best one, I’d put him over Conner. Pjj is a top 5-10 player as well on the team. The team is pretty devoid of talent at the top so I would be disappointed if a few of his draftees don’t move into the top 5/top 10 this next year.
Ha! Williams is a part time player. He was ceding snaps to Starling Thomas V. Cmon, man.
 

BigDavis75

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Ha! Williams is a part time player. He was ceding snaps to Starling Thomas V. Cmon, man.

He plays in the slot, we’ve had this conversation a million times on this board, he’s an excellent player. If you think Conner is better I don’t know what to tell you.
 

BACH

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Oh, spend the cap and bring in the players, every time. Saving the money you need for rookies/injury pool, use your damned resources If you want to use them to extend a player that actually needs extended? That's fine, so long as you're using it up. Unless you absolutely have one in the pocket, a trade you are quite certain will happen, it makes no sense not to.

As to your "WTF" am I talking about? I highlighted it for you. You don't think it's a bad idea for our GM to set aside resources for moves that never happen. You're good with him sitting on a pile of cap space for...nothing at all, because he thought he could do something but didn't pull it off. Don't "WTF" me. You knew exactly what I was talking about. It's the same with the OG he tried t sign. He doesn't get credit for identifying a need and then not filling it adequately (note that he still has time to fill the hole). He doesn't get credit merely for trying to sign the guy, and he can't possibly get credit for setting money aside for a big trade if he never makes a big trade. That's crazy land logic.
I can WTF you all that I want... Just like you can make up narritives out of thin air in order to call people sycophants.

So let me say it again. WTF are you talking about??? Where in this discussion is it about giving credit for trying.

It's very simple. Do you want the team to have the option to add better players. Yes or no.

Judging from your response, it seems you would prefer that Monti had structured the deals evenly and used up all the cap space already. Adding a veteran G or CB - Not possible. Trying to trade for players post draft or in season - not possible. And that is the moronic position that you prefer?? Seriously? WTF?

Year after year of complaining about not spending enough to better the team. This year the team is top 3-ish in spending (was #6 before McBride) and Monti creating more space to spend even more and you do a 180 and said that he shouldn't create space to have the possibility to better the team.

Even if Monti decide to add ZERO players it's a good idea.
1. The team has the same amount of cap space next year with less needs to fill.
2. You seem to have this belief that unused cap space goes into a black hole and disappears - saving Bidwill money. That is not the case. This enables Monti to spend more Cash than cap space.
3. Monti uses the unused cap space. Last season the unused cap space was used to moved the garanteed money for Budda, Conner and Froholdt to 2024 instead of taking cap space in future years. So if Monti doesn't trade or sign someone, it's just right pocket - left pocket money. Zero impact.
 
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PDXChris

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PJJ has more positional value, to be sure. Missed three games, played pretty mid in the second half of the season.

I don't put a lot of stock in it, but PJJ had an Approximate Value of 7 last season; Froholdt's was 8. Availability probably matters more than anything else when it comes to OL.

Harry said PJJ hurt his knee agianst the Seahawks and was playing hurt the second half. Once they were eliminated, they shut him down.
 

BACH

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Here is some high level analysis on cap space from 2024 season ending to now, plus rookie pool. It is ordered by current cap space.

There is sure to be more spending on post draft FA and extensions, but you can spending all of your cap doesn't mean a winning team. When you look at the bottom 16 here who spent more, 8 made the playoffs and 8 missed. For the teams that spent less, 6 made the playoffs and 10 missed. Of those 10 that missed, 5 are rebuilding.
BINGO!

Guess which team has paid out the most money over the last 4 years - manipulated the cap and spend the actual most cash from the owner's pocket?

The Cleveland Browns
 
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Stout

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I can WFT you all that I want... Just like you can make up narritives out of thin air in order to call people sycophants.

So let me say it again. WHF are you talking about??? Where in this discussion is it about giving credit for trying.

It's very simple. Do you want the team to have the option to add better players. Yes or no.

Judging from your response, it seems you would prefer that Monti had structured the deals evenly and used up all the cap space already. Adding a veteran G or CB - Not possible. Trying to trade for players post draft or in season - not possible. And that is the moronic position that you prefer?? Seriously? WFT?

Year after year of complaining about not spending enough to better the team. This year the team is top 3-ish in spending (was #6 before McBride) and Monti creating more space to spend even more and you do a 180 and said that he shouldn't create space to have the possibility to better the team.

Even if Monti decide to add ZERO players it's a good idea.
1. The team has the same amount of cap space next year with less needs to fill.
2. You seem to have this belief that unused cap space goes into a black hole and disappears - saving Bidwill money. That is not the case. This enables Monti to spend more Cash than cap space.
3. Monti uses the unused cap space. Last season the unused cap space was used to moved the garanteed money for Budda, Conner and Froholdt to 2024 instead of taking cap space in future years. So if Monti doesn't trade or sign someone, it's just right pocket - left pocket money. Zero impact.
The only response this deserves is, I think you mean WTF :biglaugh:
 

BACH

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Come on… I’m not a Monti Cheerleader, but PJJ is better than Froholdt.
PJJ has a higher ceiling and will potentially/hopefully develop into a better player.

Last season PJJ was ranked #12 among OTs.
Froholdt #6 at C. PFF put him on their all-pro team (which I do not agree with)
 
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PDXChris

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Ha! Williams is a part time player. He was ceding snaps to Starling Thomas V. Cmon, man.
5th most snaps isn't a part time player. Williams also missed a game.

Garrett - 48.8 snaps a game
STV - 48.2 snaps a game

Garrett played the most snaps per game of any CB.

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