Trey Mcbride

[Krangodnzr]

Lets use Simmons and Collins as an example. Both were drafted and there were vets in front of them. A smart team would STILL try to get the young high pick on the field. Collins is starting to play a lot better as is Simmons. Let the young guys play!

 

[BritCard]

He's getting targets. You can't really attack a receiver if they aren't getting targets, especially really early in their career.

How do you know? It's all conjecture at this point. What I see is a team that is consistently failing to use all of their weapons. Even with DHop out, the Cardinals had more good to decent receivers than an average team. There is a disconnect between GM and coach that has been present from the very first year they were together. And then their is a disconnect between coach and QB. This isn't exactly a high functioning organization at the moment.

One could argue that the smarter move would have been to let Ertz walk during free agency and draft McBride and play him in Ertz's spots. Even with McBride's struggles, he isn't as terrible a blocker as Ertz would would be meh on WR blocking scales.

@Stout on one hand says "Kyler sucks. Kliff sucks. This offense sucks" and on the other hand "McBride sucks completely independently of all my other beliefs about this offense".

 

[Russ Smith]

Likley also passes the eye test…McBride does not. Likely looked special in preseason.

Ravens knew day 1 in camp what they had on their hands.

Likely dropped like a rock in the draft because he ran a 4.8 40 at the combine. McBride ran a much faster 40 but Likely appears to be more pro ready. Many had him rated the most pro ready TE in the draft before the combine.

He looks really good I do think McBride will be good too but he hasn't done anything yet

 

[Stout]

Lets use Simmons and Collins as an example. Both were drafted and there were vets in front of them. A smart team would STILL try to get the young high pick on the field. Collins is starting to play a lot better as is Simmons. Let the young guys play!

I'm with you. I'd trade Ertz if possible and play the rook, bad play be damned. Give him the development time. This is all just a response to Brit's insistence that McBride is just fine, and everyone should be pleased with his progress attitude. He's citing maybes and shoulda wouldas and claiming all I have is "feelings" lol

 

[Stout]

@Stout on one hand says "Kyler sucks. Kliff sucks. This offense sucks" and on the other hand "McBride sucks completely independently of all my other beliefs about this offense".

lol Embarrassing stuff there. You're the one asserting McBride isn't sucking. I'm just showing you the facts. He has more penalties than receptions and more penalty yards than receiving yards. Maybe he'd be better in a different system with a different coach/QB, and maybe not. That is all pure conjecture. "Feelings," if you will.

Where I fall on him, though I think he sucks right now? He had little camp time and practice, so he has had no chance to really develop in practice. Either give him that time and let Ertz mentor him through it, or say screw it, trade Ertz, and toss the kid into the water to sink or swim.

Either way, he's not been a good 2nd-round pick thus far, and there's no argument to be made that he has been--besides your "feelings." He's had a negative net contribution and 2nd rounders need to contribute immediately.

But, go on, tell posters they aren't allowed to be displeased at 2nd-round picks not playing well for half a season. Go on, tell us how we should "feel" and chastise us for saying we'll be happy if they come good. LOL @ you trying to be the board police.

 

[Krangodnzr]

lol Embarrassing stuff there. You're the one asserting McBride isn't sucking. I'm just showing you the facts. He has more penalties than receptions and more penalty yards than receiving yards. Maybe he'd be better in a different system with a different coach/QB, and maybe not. That is all pure conjecture. "Feelings," if you will.

Where I fall on him, though I think he sucks right now? He had little camp time and practice, so he has had no chance to really develop in practice. Either give him that time and let Ertz mentor him through it, or say screw it, trade Ertz, and toss the kid into the water to sink or swim.

Either way, he's not been a good 2nd-round pick thus far, and there's no argument to be made that he has been--besides your "feelings." He's had a negative net contribution and 2nd rounders need to contribute immediately.

But, go on, tell posters they aren't allowed to be displeased at 2nd-round picks not playing well for half a season. Go on, tell us how we should "feel" and chastise us for saying we'll be happy if they come good. LOL @ you trying to be the board police.

I'd say he isn't a good 1st round pick because he isn't playing a big part of the offense right now. For whatever reason.

I'm a big believer that you give a player a few years to catch on. Some catch on sooner than others, and some only catch on in the right system and the right players around them.

Take Byron Murphy for example. He wasn't good his rookie year, but he has gotten better every year. Zach Allen as well.

 

[BritCard]

lol Embarrassing stuff there. You're the one asserting McBride isn't sucking. I'm just showing you the facts. He has more penalties than receptions and more penalty yards than receiving yards. Maybe he'd be better in a different system with a different coach/QB, and maybe not. That is all pure conjecture. "Feelings," if you will.

Where I fall on him, though I think he sucks right now? He had little camp time and practice, so he has had no chance to really develop in practice. Either give him that time and let Ertz mentor him through it, or say screw it, trade Ertz, and toss the kid into the water to sink or swim.

Either way, he's not been a good 2nd-round pick thus far, and there's no argument to be made that he has been--besides your "feelings." He's had a negative net contribution and 2nd rounders need to contribute immediately.

But, go on, tell posters they aren't allowed to be displeased at 2nd-round picks not playing well for half a season. Go on, tell us how we should "feel" and chastise us for saying we'll be happy if they come good. LOL @ you trying to be the board police.

I'm not saying he is or isn't sucking. I'm saying he's played 120 snaps with a QB playing poorly and nobody should be making assessments off that.

 

[Stout]

I'd say he isn't a good 1st round pick because he isn't playing a big part of the offense right now. For whatever reason.

I'm a big believer that you give a player a few years to catch on. Some catch on sooner than others, and some only catch on in the right system and the right players around them.

Take Byron Murphy for example. He wasn't good his rookie year, but he has gotten better every year. Zach Allen as well.

I can understand your take. I think it's frustrating, and detrimental to the team in the short run, for Keim to draft more project types high, but I am happy when they pan out. Murphy and Allen certainly have.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The context is that he's a rookie that has meaningful snaps in 5 games and has had 3 targets.

Imagine judging a pick after *checks notes* 129 snaps.

Imagine ignoring all of a players (anyone not kyler) faults in conducting analysis.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How would you know?

I mean, to support my argument I've shown him ripping off an untargeted 40 yard gain where he was wide open and stats show 4 or 5 games he's played significant snaps he's gone untargeted.

You have "feels".

Wait wait wait, now we are crediting players with “untargeted gains?” Lol. The creativity is through the roof! And hilarious.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He's getting targets. You can't really attack a receiver if they aren't getting targets, especially really early in their career.

How do you know? It's all conjecture at this point. What I see is a team that is consistently failing to use all of their weapons. Even with DHop out, the Cardinals had more good to decent receivers than an average team. There is a disconnect between GM and coach that has been present from the very first year they were together. And then their is a disconnect between coach and QB. This isn't exactly a high functioning organization at the moment.

One could argue that the smarter move would have been to let Ertz walk during free agency and draft McBride and play him in Ertz's spots. Even with McBride's struggles, he isn't as terrible a blocker as Ertz would would be meh on WR blocking scales.

And how do you account for the penalties and missed blocks?

 

[DVontel]

I see Simmons is playing well so the wolves are out for another to jump on with the bust tag

Yea, how dare fans got frustrated after their 8th overall pick was playing bad for 2+ seasons.

He’s playing great now, & I’m happy because of it, but this post is just not it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

@Stout on one hand says "Kyler sucks. Kliff sucks. This offense sucks" and on the other hand "McBride sucks completely independently of all my other beliefs about this offense".

It is possible that they all suck.

 

[kerouac9]

The bottom line is that (1) TEs are not really a premium position in the NFL (quick -- who were the starting tight ends in the super bowl) and (2) they're nearly impossible to project from college. Drafting one in the first two days is basically a fool's errand. You'd get more production through the first half of the contract at almost any other position.

Sign free agent TEs, not free agent running backs.

 

[reebokalone2001]

The context is that he's a rookie that has meaningful snaps in 5 games and has had 3 targets.

Imagine judging a pick after *checks notes* 129 snaps.

IMHO, the context is that he isn't good, which resulted in him not getting meaningful snaps and targets, not vice versa. Simmons' and Collins' first season was the same. I am glad to see they played better, but they were busts in their rookie season and did not match their draft position.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The bottom line is that (1) TEs are not really a premium position in the NFL (quick -- who were the starting tight ends in the super bowl) and (2) they're nearly impossible to project from college. Drafting one in the first two days is basically a fool's errand. You'd get more production through the first half of the contract at almost any other position.

Sign free agent TEs, not free agent running backs.

expecting them to be a contributor in season 1 is an even bigger fool's errand. as was expecting Max "Mr. Glass" Williams to actually be healthy.

I can only chuckle at those who can't admit they were just laughably wrong about going into the season "with one of the better TE rooms in the league." Max's injuries were beyond predictable, as was a rookie TE struggling, not to mention Ertz is merely a good TE and not a great one.

 

[SteveKeimFan]

Mcbride is 6'3 and slow.

His career was over before it even started.

 

[kerouac9]

expecting them to be a contributor in season 1 is an even bigger fool's errand. as was expecting Max "Mr. Glass" Williams to actually be healthy.

I can only chuckle at those who can't admit they were just laughably wrong about going into the season "with one of the better TE rooms in the league." Max's injuries were beyond predictable, as was a rookie TE struggling, not to mention Ertz is merely a good TE and not a great one.

Yes. I mean, in August when Maxx Williams was making a miracle comeback, it seemed like maybe we would. But in June it was ridiculous.

Harry saying look out for McBride as a potential #2 receiving option was also deeply hilarious. As was expecting we'd be running a bunch of 2TE sets.

Just predictions across the board about this team were off-base. You don't suddenly change up everything you're doing in Year 4.

 

[Dayman]

I'm not saying he is or isn't sucking. I'm saying he's played 120 snaps with a QB playing poorly and nobody should be making assessments off that.

Kyler has nothing to do with McBride drawing a penalty every 30 snaps when he's on offense.

 

[Arz101]

Keim could have selected a run stuffer to play on 1st and 2nd downs, but selected a TE who needs two years of seasoning and then Keim Bois here are like "just saying, Keim pics are starting to look real good" in his year 3

 

[TheCardFan]

@BritCard - can we get some video of McBride running routes please? Is he open or not?

 

[Chopper0080]

Yes. I mean, in August when Maxx Williams was making a miracle comeback, it seemed like maybe we would. But in June it was ridiculous.

Harry saying look out for McBride as a potential #2 receiving option was also deeply hilarious. As was expecting we'd be running a bunch of 2TE sets.

Just predictions across the board about this team were off-base. You don't suddenly change up everything you're doing in Year 4.

Yup. Another good decision in a vacuum but bad decision as part of a whole plan.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yes. I mean, in August when Maxx Williams was making a miracle comeback, it seemed like maybe we would. But in June it was ridiculous.

Harry saying look out for McBride as a potential #2 receiving option was also deeply hilarious. As was expecting we'd be running a bunch of 2TE sets.

Just predictions across the board about this team were off-base. You don't suddenly change up everything you're doing in Year 4.

The irony is that's part of what turned around Kliff's first season here. He realized his empty sets and 4 WR sets were not working, teams were teeing off on Murray with no threat to run so he changed to playing lots of 2 TE sets and the offense improved dramatically.

I was hoping when we picked McBride that was the plan again. More 2 TE sets with the threat to run, especially with D Hop out for 6 games. But didn't really happen in part because McBride was behind due to his back injury but in larger part because it appears Kliff doesn't like to play 2 TE's and Kyler doesn't like to throw to the 2nd TE.

Also McBride is not a good blocker yet so you lose that part of the 2 TE deal that we had the first year.

At this point I'm praying for Hollywood coming back, lots of Hop, Hollywood and Rondale with Ertz and a RB. It seems unlikely to me the 2 TE stuff is going to work this year

 

[BritCard]

@BritCard - can we get some video of McBride running routes please? Is he open or not?

It's tough to go through and find individual players. Very time consuming. But there were some in the Seahawks thread and there is one in the interceptions thread.

I believe someone posted one of the TV footage earlier in the season of McBride being wide open for a TD. I can't remember which game. Rams maybe?

 

[BritCard]

The irony is that's part of what turned around Kliff's first season here. He realized his empty sets and 4 WR sets were not working, teams were teeing off on Murray with no threat to run so he changed to playing lots of 2 TE sets and the offense improved dramatically.

I was hoping when we picked McBride that was the plan again. More 2 TE sets with the threat to run, especially with D Hop out for 6 games. But didn't really happen in part because McBride was behind due to his back injury but in larger part because it appears Kliff doesn't like to play 2 TE's and Kyler doesn't like to throw to the 2nd TE.

Also McBride is not a good blocker yet so you lose that part of the 2 TE deal that we had the first year.

At this point I'm praying for Hollywood coming back, lots of Hop, Hollywood and Rondale with Ertz and a RB. It seems unlikely to me the 2 TE stuff is going to work this year

Through the last 3 seasons we average 23% 12 personnel.

Looking at the snap counts this year it looks the same if not higher. Ertz is playing 85% of snaps. McBride is averaging around 34% the last 5 games as was Maxx Williams before that.

So were probably playing 2 TE's somewhere between 25-30% of the time.

McBride has run 45 routes on his 129 snaps but only had 3 targets.

Ertz has run 291 routes on 505 snaps and had 60 targets. or all the talk of "Why haven't we targeted Ertz this half" which is true, he does go weird spells without a target, he's actually had a 20% target share when running a route.