Turnover stat

[Captain America]

I havent seen this posted anywhere, but I looked up the turnover stats for the suns over the last 8 games. Since Shaq has hit the floor with the Suns, they have had 136 turnovers.

The worst part of that is that the turnovers have lead to 159 points for the other team.

They are averaging 17 turnovers a game and it is leading to 19.8 points off turnovers per game.

This has been the biggest problem for the Suns and why they have been losing these games lately. I have to believe that as the team gets more time to gel, that these will go down. If not, the Suns are screwed.

 

[MiamiHeat]

shaq is averaging like 4-5 turnovers a game with the Suns....this is because he is trying really hard to morph his game to fit the Suns. passing out of the postup, fastbreak outlet passes, etc........and it's not working.

this doesnt even count the offensive fouls he would be getting if he was posting up 15 times a night

 

[Captain America]

shaq is averaging like 4-5 turnovers a game with the Suns....this is because he is trying really hard to morph his game to fit the Suns. passing out of the postup, fastbreak outlet passes, etc........and it's not working.

this doesnt even count the offensive fouls he would be getting if he was posting up 15 times a night

I'm not talking about Shaq. I am talking about the Suns as a whole. They are playing stupid basketball all the way around.

 

[cly2tw]

Nash dribble-penetration is always prone to turnovers. Back then, with our speed running opponents out of the gym, they couldn't force them due to lack of energy and good counter measure. On the other side, the opponents commit even more turnovers for the same reasons. This season, everything just changed. See my other analysis at
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=108019

 

[MiamiHeat]

I'm not talking about Shaq. I am talking about the Suns as a whole. They are playing stupid basketball all the way around.

shaq is a big reason with those 4-5 turnovers a night from the -CENTER- spot...........

then you have Nash and Amare with 5 each last night.

nash looks confused out there cause he can't dribble penetrate into the rim anymore.....cause someone who you don't want to talk about is clogging it

 

[cly2tw]

shaq is averaging like 4-5 turnovers a game with the Suns....this is because he is trying really hard to morph his game to fit the Suns. passing out of the postup, fastbreak outlet passes, etc........and it's not working.

this doesnt even count the offensive fouls he would be getting if he was posting up 15 times a night

I guess you watched games but seemingly could not see what's going on out there. Shaq's turnovers are mainly due to lack of conditioning that he sometimes commit an offensive foul or losing his base fighting for positions. It's nothing really serious. Once Nash learns to stop over-dribbling, we will win a championship this season. And you can be proud of Shaq as if he was still a Heat!

 

[Captain America]

shaq is a big reason with those 4-5 turnovers a night from the -CENTER- spot...........

then you have Nash and Amare with 5 each last night.

nash looks confused out there cause he can't dribble penetrate into the rim anymore.....cause someone who you don't want to talk about is clogging it

It's not that I dont want to talk about Shaq, its that I dont want this to turn into a Shaq-bashing thread as so many of the Laker and Heat fans want to do.

Anyone that knows basketball can see that clearly the reason that the turnovers are up is because the paint is clogged. The Suns need to figure out a way to spread the floor. This is mainly the job of Nash and D'antoni. Nash needs to start realizing that he cannot dribble into the paint like he used to because teams will trap him, hack him, and its not going to get called. Thus, he loses the ball.

Again, my intention in creating this thread was to point out the large amount of turnovers that are losing these games for the Suns, and as they start to gel and know their roles, the turnovers should slow down. Once that happens, they have the talent to win most of these games.

 

[MiamiHeat]

actually some of shaqs urnovers are due to bad passes.

last night he did it a few times again, trying to outlet pass from the post and makes a bad pass that gets stolen.

perhaps d'antoni needs to space his shooters out differently but whatever the case, he's big part of the TO problem with 4-5 a night at the center position. D'antoni can't do anything about that part. however he CAN do something about Nash. nash needs to adjust


as for AMARE, he just gets a few offensive fouls like he did last night again. i'd say amare is fine because he has been playing C and now he's at PF again so he needs time to adjust


as for 2 time MVP Nash..... he misses marion badly and he is really uncomfortable with shaq clogging the lane. he needs to learn how to play with shaq down there, the run and gun style is dead for phoenix. nash is suffering from 'what the hell happened to the system i liked'

oh and you cant make a thread about suns turnovers now and try to avoid criticizing players that are the main contributors of the turnovers. nash - shaq - amare last night, and shaq - nash every game. i dont blame amare as bad becuase he switched to PF now. its mainly D'Antoni, Nash, and Shaq who are confused

 

[Captain America]

actually some of shaqs urnovers are due to bad passes.

last night he did it a few times again, trying to outlet pass from the post and makes a bad pass that gets stolen.

perhaps d'antoni needs to space his shooters out differently but whatever the case, he's big part of the TO problem with 4-5 a night at the center position. D'antoni can't do anything about that part. however he CAN do something about Nash. nash needs to adjust


as for AMARE, he just gets a few offensive fouls like he did last night again. i'd say amare is fine because he has been playing C and now he's at PF again so he needs time to adjust


as for 2 time MVP Nash..... he misses marion badly and he is really uncomfortable with shaq clogging the lane. he needs to learn how to play with shaq down there, the run and gun style is dead for phoenix. nash is suffering from 'what the hell happened to the system i liked'

oh and you cant make a thread about suns turnovers now and try to avoid criticizing players that are the main contributors of the turnovers. nash - shaq - amare last night, and shaq - nash every game.

read above post

 

[Covert Rain]

I actually think Shaq is starting to improve on his passing. At the very start Shaq couldn't pass the ball to anyone without making a turnover. Now is seems like he is hitting guys on the break. It appears to me he is getting more comfortable.

I am not worried about Amare as much either. What worries me is the Nash turnovers. Something is not right with Nash. I think he is either hurt, not comfortable out there or is on the slide. Don't know which.

This team HAS to cut down on the turnovers or we are done. They either need to change up the system and stop trying to run so much or D'Antoni needs to drill it into these guys to take care of the ball. This can't continue.

 

[MiamiHeat]

facts are facts, someone needs to sit Nash down and plainly tell him, sorry steve, i know you won the NBA MVP twice and we played this way for 4 years. it sucks to do this in the middle of a season, but our old style of run and gun is gone. it's dead. finito. arrividerci.

then maybe shaq can stop what he's doing, nash can stop doing what hes doing, and the suns can just morph into a half-court team that has a lot of fastbreaks.

get it over with and maybe that will help the most

 

[nashman]

They will get it figured out and once everyone is comfortable and stops making TO's then we will see some basketball like the first half against Portland. TO's are pretty much why we are losing games right now.

 

[Captain America]

They will get it figured out and once everyone is comfortable and stops making TO's then we will see some basketball like the first half against Portland. TO's are pretty much why we are losing games right now.

I hope so. They are showing potential in a lot of spurts, they just need to start putting full games together.

 

[Griffin]

Last 8 games:

Turnovers per game: 16.5
Season average: 13.7

Opponent turnovers per game: 11.5
Season average: 13.4

Turnover differential: +5.0
Season average: +0.3

Those season averages are already affected by the last 8 games. We actually committed fewer turnovers than the opponent prior to the trade, but I don't have those numbers anymore.

Field goals attempted per game: 79.4
Adjusted for free throws: 93.6

Opponent field goals attempted per game: 88.9
Adjusted for free throws: 99.1

Field goal attempts differential: -9.5 (adjusted: -5.5)
Season differential: -6.9 (adjusted -6.3)

We did fix the rebounding problem (for the most part) and we are getting to the free throw line more (about 6 more FT attempts per game than before the trade). But the high turnovers, coupled with the relatively low opponent turnovers, means we are still giving up significantly more field goal attempts to the opponent. Add to it the fact that we are not shooting the ball well (only 3 out of 8 games we shot over 50% and two of those we lost) and the fact that we allow opponent to shoot high percentage (5 of 8 games over 50%, all losses) and is it surprising that we are only 3-5 in those games?

 

[SirStefan32]

It's not that I dont want to talk about Shaq, its that I dont want this to turn into a Shaq-bashing thread as so many of the Laker and Heat fans want to do.

Anyone that knows basketball can see that clearly the reason that the turnovers are up is because the paint is clogged. The Suns need to figure out a way to spread the floor. This is mainly the job of Nash and D'antoni. Nash needs to start realizing that he cannot dribble into the paint like he used to because teams will trap him, hack him, and its not going to get called. Thus, he loses the ball.

Again, my intention in creating this thread was to point out the large amount of turnovers that are losing these games for the Suns, and as they start to gel and know their roles, the turnovers should slow down. Once that happens, they have the talent to win most of these games.

You are exactly right, but there is one major problem- you can not spread the floor if shooters are not hitting 3 pointers. Diaw and Hill are not 3 point shooters to begin with and Barbosa and Bell are in a slump (Bell more than Barbosa). DJ and Johnson are good defenders but terrible shooters. We'll see what happens with Giricek, I guess. Somebody has to start hitting those shots.

Another thing is that they have to stop turning the ball over so much. Team just looks completely out of sync. I am still standing by my statement that this team will go all the way.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I guess you watched games but seemingly could not see what's going on out there. Shaq's turnovers are mainly due to lack of conditioning that he sometimes commit an offensive foul or losing his base fighting for positions. It's nothing really serious. Once Nash learns to stop over-dribbling, we will win a championship this season. And you can be proud of Shaq as if he was still a Heat!

A lot of the Nash overdribbling is indebted to the system.

And if we want to win a championship, Nash and Amare better start playing some D.

 

[MiamiHeat]

A lot of the Nash overdribbling is indebted to the system.

And if we want to win a championship, Nash and Amare better start playing some D.

Yeah, but you realize what you are asking of them right?

Middle of season, bye bye system they knew for 4 years. Asking them to play D to win games all of a sudden, when that was not their job. Nash 2 time NBA MVP not by playing defense. You seriously can't pin this stuff on Nash. That's really unfair to him, to spring a trade like this on him and now blame him for his deficiencies that have been there for 4 years and you had a system in place to overlook them.

 

[TheHopToad]

I think when it comes to turnovers, you have to look at how they are being made. Most of Shaq's TOs are from not fully mastering the system and plays yet. He makes passes to people who cut in the opposite direction from where he thinks they should go. Other times he loses the handle on the quick passes he gets in the post because of the way the team rotates the ball around so fast.

Usually, turnovers are a byproduct of being aggressive and trying to make plays happen. This is the case with most of the TOs Steve Nash makes. He's trying to figure out how best to adapt and incorporate Shaq and the others into the modified system, and naturally he's going to make more mistakes and errant passes while trying to experiment. Right now, Steve is "in the lab".

Most of us would not be shocked to know that Nash is the league leader in turnovers, but you may be surprised to learn that you could field a pretty good all-star team from the top 10 leaders in turnovers:

1 Steve Nash , PHX
2 Deron Williams , UTA
3 Dwyane Wade , MIA
4 Jason Kidd , DAL-NJN
5 Kobe Bryant , LAL
6 Dwight Howard , ORL
7 Josh Smith , ATL
8 Carmelo Anthony , DEN
8 Allen Iverson , DEN
10 LeBron James , CLE

Once this team figures out how best to play together, and I think they will, then the turnovers will drop off. Steve Nash will still make his fair share, because he is amazing and makes passes so spectacular that even his own teammates aren't prepared and miss them. However, he'll more than make up for them when this team has their stuff together...which should hopefully be right around April.​

 

[cly2tw]

Usually, turnovers are a byproduct of being aggressive and trying to make plays happen. This is the case with most of the TOs Steve Nash makes. He's trying to figure out how best to adapt and incorporate Shaq and the others into the modified system, and naturally he's going to make more mistakes and errant passes while trying to experiment. Right now, Steve is "in the lab".

Most of us would not be shocked to know that Nash is the league leader in turnovers, but you may be surprised to learn that you could field a pretty good all-star team from the top 10 leaders in turnovers:

1 Steve Nash , PHX
2 Deron Williams , UTA
3 Dwyane Wade , MIA
4 Jason Kidd , DAL-NJN
5 Kobe Bryant , LAL
6 Dwight Howard , ORL
7 Josh Smith , ATL
8 Carmelo Anthony , DEN
8 Allen Iverson , DEN
10 LeBron James , CLE

I wonder how many more tos Nash has over Deron. However, Nash's are likely more costly as the fastbreaking on those tos seems to be easier.

 

[FArting]

I wonder how many more tos Nash has over Deron. However, Nash's are likely more costly as the fastbreaking on those tos seems to be easier.

Nash has 16 more turnovers than Deron.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stati...t=0&season=2008&seasontype=2&avg=none&pos=all

 

[malooga]

facts are facts, someone needs to sit Nash down and plainly tell him, sorry steve, i know you won the NBA MVP twice and we played this way for 4 years. it sucks to do this in the middle of a season, but our old style of run and gun is gone. it's dead. finito. arrividerci.

Another armchair genius. Steve Nash has a basketball IQ that is just a tad higher than yours (and all the other critics around here). He also has just a little more experience than most of us. I've got an idea. Why don't you email Steve and tell him that you'd like to come over to his place and give him some advice on running a basketball team. And make sure to copy it to D'Antoni and Kerr. I'm sure they will get right back to you. You give me a good laugh