TWolves to offer Bledsoe max contract

[Chaz]

I agree, the deal has been out there for sometime. I'm surprised some other teams have not stepped up publicly and said, if you take our bad contracts, we'll sign Bledsoe for the max. Maybe they have more class or realize it is a stunt.

Also not convinced this came from the Wolves.
It came from ESPN via Rich Paul as far as I tell.

Nothing but a last minute attempt to get out in to the mind of the public that there is an NBA team that would pay 4/63.

 

[Mainstreet]

Not about giving up on Len, it's about making it more appealing for Minnesota.

I don't think the Cavs "gave up" on wiggins when they traded him for Love.

It's about making the trade fair or close to it.

Maybe this is all the Suns can get but I'm not keen on giving up on Len this early in his career. However, I will leave this decision up to McDonough and Hornacek as I must. It would be quite awkward if the Suns helped the Wolves become a regular playoff team with a star guard in Bledsoe and a career center in Len. The Suns are not getting close to a star quality player in return.

 

[Mainstreet]

Also not convinced this came from the Wolves.
It came from ESPN via Rich Paul as far as I tell.

Nothing but a last minute attempt to get out in to the mind of the public that there is an NBA team that would pay 4/63.

I know what you are saying but the Wolves cannot pay 4/63. They are dealing with play money. Otherwise they would have submitted an offer sheet for Bledsoe or at least let the Suns know they were prepared to do just that.

We agree it likely came from ESPN with the help of Bledsoe's agent.

 

[Phrazbit]

It came from Brian Windhorst, that gastropod who only has a job because LeBron has his arm rammed up his butt.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Things we learn from this:

1. Teams are not willing to give up any value for Bledsoe. The max deal idea is just a smokescreen. They are only willing to pay him that if the Suns subsidize it by taking back Martin etc.

2. It isn't about big markets, playing with LeBron, trying to go back to LA, or even winning. If we actually bit on this one, Eric would go to a small, cold, market, with a young inexperienced team that just gave up its best player. Its about the money and the max player status. Period.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Things we learn from this:

1. Teams are not willing to give up any value for Bledsoe. The max deal idea is just a smokescreen. They are only willing to pay him that if the Suns subsidize it by taking back Martin etc.

2. It isn't about big markets, playing with LeBron, trying to go back to LA, or even winning. If we actually bit on this one, Eric would go to a small, cold, market, with a young inexperienced team that just gave up its best player. Its about the money and the max player status. Period.

I really don't think we can take much from this staged event. No one in their right mind would trade Eric for a bunch of bad contracts so there was never a risk that Bledsoe would end up freezing his butt off in a playoff barren wilderness.

Steve

 

[Finito]

I love that trade if you can get back that kind of young rare talent you do it. I think suns fans really over value Bledsoe this guy has played 4 seasons and missed half the season twice because of injury he only been a starter for half a season and had never once actually said he wants to be here. If you can get LaVine and Dieng do it.

Man that's about of young talent on one team. No suns fans with any kind of sense thinks there going to be legit contenders so you have time to let these guys develop

 

[BC867]

I love that trade if you can get back that kind of young rare talent you do it. I think suns fans really over value Bledsoe this guy has played 4 seasons and missed half the season twice because of injury he only been a starter for half a season and had never once actually said he wants to be here. If you can get LaVine and Dieng do it.

Man that's about of young talent on one team. No suns fans with any kind of sense thinks there going to be legit contenders so you have time to let these guys develop

'Seems to be the lesser of all the evils as the Suns build its foundation for the future. Anything else puts a dark cloud over Hornacek's potential as Coach of the future.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Is there ANYWAY a reasonable could be worked out without Wiggins in it? I know the Suns like Lavine. But that would be three rookies on the roster. I would do three rookies if one of them is Wiggins.

Would Bledsoe, TJ, and the Lakers pick get Wiggins?

No way in hell. Can't believe you guys are even entertaining this thought. Wiggins was the centerpiece for a 26/13/4 guy, but somehow you guys think we can get him for a guy who's been pretty good for a half season? Come on guys.

 

[SirStefan32]

No way in hell. Can't believe you guys are even entertaining this thought. Wiggins was the centerpiece for a 26/13/4 guy, but somehow you guys think we can get him for a guy who's been pretty good for a half season? Come on guys.

This is not specific to this board or the Suns, but it is amazing how fans tend to overvalue "their" players. All we need to do is ask ourselves, "Would I rather have player A or player B?" No sane person would have Bledsoe over Wiggins, so why would the Wolves? Unless they've hired Isaiah Thomas as their GM, there is no chance in hell.

Having said all that, it's quite possible Bledsoe ends up being the better player out of the two, but no sane person would take that gamble. Wiggins' potential is just too high.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is not specific to this board or the Suns, but it is amazing how fans tend to overvalue "their" players. All we need to do is ask ourselves, "Would I rather have player A or player B?" No sane person would have Bledsoe over Wiggins, so why would the Wolves? Unless they've hired Isaiah Thomas as their GM, there is no chance in hell.

Having said all that, it's quite possible Bledsoe ends up being the better player out of the two, but no sane person would take that gamble. Wiggins' potential is just too high.

I think a sane person in a specific situation might choose Bledsoe over Wiggins. Say for example, Cleveland, if given the chance I believe they'd take Bledsoe. But you're right, most teams are not serious contenders and most teams would rather take the gamble that Wiggins will hit his immense potential. Even if they just become roughly equal players, Andrew's size makes a big difference.

Steve

 

[Folster]

Rich Paul: Hey Lon and Ryan, I just got off the phone with Flip and and he is willing to give Eric a max contract. You guys said that you would match any offer so that means you have to give Eric the max.

Lon and Ryan: (both start chuckling) Good one Rich.

Rich: (Silence)

Lon: Oh you're serious. (Lon winks at Ryan) Well, have Flip email us the offer sheet. (Ryan snickers in the background)

Rich: Well... Flip says they don't have the cap space... but you guys said to find a team willing to beat your offer and I did.

Lon: click

 

[AzStevenCal]

Rich Paul: Hey Lon and Ryan, I just got off the phone with Flip and and he is willing to give Eric a max contract. You guys said that you would match any offer so that means you have to give Eric the max.

Lon and Ryan: (both start chuckling) Good one Rich.

Rich: (Silence)

Lon: Oh you're serious. (Lon winks at Ryan) Well, have Flip email us the offer sheet. (Ryan snickers in the background)

Rich: Well... Flip says they don't have the cap space... but you guys said to find a team willing to beat your offer and I did.

Lon: click

Wow. I'm surprised they just let you record their phone conversations.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Maybe this is all the Suns can get but I'm not keen on giving up on Len this early in his career. However, I will leave this decision up to McDonough and Hornacek as I must. It would be quite awkward if the Suns helped the Wolves become a regular playoff team with a star guard in Bledsoe and a career center in Len. The Suns are not getting close to a star quality player in return.

Dude it's not "giving up" on Len. So are you telling me that the Cavs "gave up" on Wiggins? The Nets "gave up" on Favors? The Knicks "gave up" on Danillo Galinari? The Suns "gave up" on Dudley?

There's a difference between "giving up" on a player and making a trade which kinda makes sense for both teams.

Giving up on a player would be like the Suns and Beasley. Or the Raptors and Rudy Gay. Or Blatche and the Wizards. You get the point.

I feel like you think that any time a team makes a trade, their giving up on all the players involved. No. That's the case sometimes but not all the time.

 

[sunsfan88]

Btw has anyone here actually taken a look at Kevin Martin's contract? Its not bad, its awful.

Its a long term contract with a heavy overpaid salary every single season.

Barea's is at least expiring but Martin's is just...gross.

In order for us to take on Martin's contract, yea we better get at least Lavine and Dieng.

 

[Phrazbit]

I would rather lose Bledsoe for nothing than trade him for Minnesota's trash.

I realize Wiggins is untouchable but Dieng and Lavine have to be included to get Bledsoe.

Lavine, Dieng, protection off the T-Wolves pick that we own for Bledsoe and last year's #5 pick Len.

That would not work. Bledsoe on a max is over 13 million, toss in Len and you've got the Wolves taking on 17 million in salary and only sending out 3.5. You've got to dig up another 12-14 million in salary on the Wolves end for that to fly.

 

[sunsfan88]

That would not work. Bledsoe on a max is over 13 million, toss in Len and you've got the Wolves taking on 17 million in salary and only sending out 3.5. You've got to dig up another 12-14 million in salary on the Wolves end for that to fly.

My bad, don't know why I forgot to include Barea's $4.5M and Martin's $6.8M there.

I think it should work then even though we may have to still take on one more cheap contract.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Dude it's not "giving up" on Len. So are you telling me that the Cavs "gave up" on Wiggins? The Nets "gave up" on Favors? The Knicks "gave up" on Danillo Galinari? The Suns "gave up" on Dudley?

There's a difference between "giving up" on a player and making a trade which kinda makes sense for both teams.

Giving up on a player would be like the Suns and Beasley. Or the Raptors and Rudy Gay. Or Blatche and the Wizards. You get the point.

I feel like you think that any time a team makes a trade, their giving up on all the players involved. No. That's the case sometimes but not all the time.

The Wolves don't particularly need him and tossing him into a Bledsoe trade is pretty much the definition of "giving uo" on him. He has yet to show much and he hasn't yet had the chance to show much. Just about anytime you treat the number 5 pick from a year or two earlier as a throw-in to a trade, that's giving up on the player.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

Rich Paul: Hey Lon and Ryan, I just got off the phone with Flip and and he is willing to give Eric a max contract. You guys said that you would match any offer so that means you have to give Eric the max.

Lon and Ryan: (both start chuckling) Good one Rich.

Rich: (Silence)

Lon: Oh you're serious. (Lon winks at Ryan) Well, have Flip email us the offer sheet. (Ryan snickers in the background)

Rich: Well... Flip says they don't have the cap space... but you guys said to find a team willing to beat your offer and I did.

Lon: click

That is awesome!

 

[sunsfan88]

The Wolves don't particularly need him and tossing him into a Bledsoe trade is pretty much the definition of "giving uo" on him. He has yet to show much and he hasn't yet had the chance to show much. Just about anytime you treat the number 5 pick from a year or two earlier as a throw-in to a trade, that's giving up on the player.

Steve

That's just ridiculous. So by your defintion the Cavs and their FO gave up on Wiggins. I think you would be hard pressed to find one Cavs fan or FO executive who would agree with that sentiment.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's just ridiculous. So by your defintion the Cavs and their FO gave up on Wiggins. I think you would be hard pressed to find one Cavs fan or FO executive who would agree with that sentiment.

Do you not understand the difference between being the centerpiece of the deal versus being a throw-in? Wiggins was the blue chip for Minnesota. That deal would have us trading our star, Bledsoe, and throwing in Len to make the deal work. It's too early to do that with him unless you're giving up on him. Maybe giving up on him is the right thing to do but there's no other way to paint this picture IMO.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

Do you not understand the difference between being the centerpiece of the deal versus being a throw-in? Wiggins was the blue chip for Minnesota. That deal would have us trading our star, Bledsoe, and throwing in Len to make the deal work. It's too early to do that with him unless you're giving up on him. Maybe giving up on him is the right thing to do but there's no other way to paint this picture IMO.

Steve

There is a difference between a throw-in and a quality secondary piece. Just because a player is a quality secondary piece in a trade does not mean he is a salary throw-in or not valued by either side.

I would say that when we traded for Green and Plumlee, we valued both pieces similarly. When we traded for Barkley, we weren't necessarily "giving up" on Tim Perry and Andrew Lang, even though Horny was the main piece. If Len is included in a trade, even if he is not the main piece, it will not be because we are giving up on him. It will be because we value what we are getting back more.

When we traded Robin Lopez, THAT was giving up, same with Armon Gilliam and Kendall Marshall.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There is a difference between a throw-in and a quality secondary piece. Just because a player is a quality secondary piece in a trade does not mean he is a salary throw-in or not valued by either side.

I would say that when we traded for Green and Plumlee, we valued both pieces similarly. When we traded for Barkley, we weren't necessarily "giving up" on Tim Perry and Andrew Lang, even though Horny was the main piece. If Len is included in a trade, even if he is not the main piece, it will not be because we are giving up on him. It will be because we value what we are getting back more.

When we traded Robin Lopez, THAT was giving up, same with Armon Gilliam and Kendall Marshall.

Sure there is but I don't see it in the trade offer we're talking about. His suggestion was "Lavine, Dieng, protection off the T-Wolves pick that we own for Bledsoe and last year's #5 pick Len". There is no way that package represents anywhere close to fair value for a near max player and the number 5 pick from the year before.

Look at the pieces we'd be receiving. The draft pick protection doesn't mean much since giving them Bledsoe probably moves their pick out of premium range anyway.

Dieng has potential and it's a position of need but he's still a fairly undeveloped project. Plus he missed 22 games last season. He wasn't out 22 straight games either, it was a night here and a night there (he was out for games 1, 3, 6, 10, 12, 13, 16, 17, 22, 23, 24, 26, 28, 31, 33, 35, 38, 39, 42, 47, 58 and 72). That's alarming although I'll admit I don't really know the reasons for those absences.

And lastly, Lavine is a long shot to ever start for a decent team. For Bledsoe alone, that's a one-sided deal IMO. Adding Len to that deal screams "throw-in" to me (on our part). If we still thought he was legitimately the big man that some thought should have gone first in last year's draft, there's no way we'd include him in a deal like this.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

Yeah and the other side of this discussion isn't questioning it either. It's just that it's not a real deal. They are denying it and we (Gambo and Coro at least) are denying it. The suggestion has been made and I believe it to be true that this is nothing more than a mirage crafted by Bledsoe's team of agents. I don't think there is a team in the league that wouldn't answer "yes" to the question "would you give Bledsoe a max contract if you could trade all your bad contracts for him". I doubt this is anything more than that.

Steve

I doubt it. Too specific not to be some smoke there. I am sure that there was an overture or phone call. That's all I am saying. I seriously doubt the agents concocted a specific scenario from a specific team without first talking to that team. I think you give this agent too much credit. So far, he doesn't appear to be that smart.

I don't think anybody is debating the extent of how far this went or if there was an official deal on the table. I don't think anybody can know that. I also don't doubt the Suns were not interested. Nothing to read into here....only that I think it's probably legit that they were trying to dump junk contracts on us or at least inquiring about it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I doubt it. Too specific not to be some smoke there. I am sure that there was an overture or phone call. That's all I am saying. I seriously doubt the agents concocted a specific scenario from a specific team without first talking to that team. I think you give this agent too much credit. So far, he doesn't appear to be that smart.

I don't think anybody is debating the extent of how far this went or if there was an official deal on the table. I don't think anybody can know that. I also don't doubt the Suns were not interested. Nothing to read into here....only that I think it's probably legit that they were trying to dump junk contracts on us or at least inquiring about it.

Rich Paul: Hey, Flip. How about giving Eric the max? He would look great next to Rubio.

Flip: You know we don't have the cap to make any offers, let alone the max. I even then, I am not sure I would give him the max.

RP: Sign and trade, sign and trade.

Flip: No way Phoenix would do it. They would have to take back a load of bad contracts, and we are not giving up Wiggins.

RP: I got them looking bad. When it breaks that you are willing to offer him the max, they will have to cave. What do you have to lose.

Flip: Well, it didn't come from me. Float it with your sources and see if Phoenix bites. They won't. But you can try.

RP: Cool dude. We're on our way.