Tyler Johnson to the Suns

[AzStevenCal]

Man, I can't wait to see the meltdowns when we don't get the best player in the deal...

Especially if it turns out we waived the best player in the deal.

 

[Hoop Head]

Seems the part confusing people is the belief that a buyout is the same a renegotiating for a lower amount, it's not. The renegotiation is referring to retaining an existing player at a lower amount than their current contract. For example the Suns would not have been able to pay Anderson a salary lower than 21mil next year and keep him on the roster, but both sides can agree to a buyout price which will effectively terminate the contract(not renegotiate), while also prohibiting the player from being on the team during the length of the terminated contract(to prevent an end around on the whole renegotiating thing).

If you don't believe me try playing with http://www.shamsports.com/capulator and see what happens when you buyout/stretch. And if you think Shams is wrong then there certainly isn't anyone here who will be able to convince you.

The problem with that particular site is that it lists his guarantee at $21 million next year when that is not the case. Before the trade took place Anderson agreed to renegotiate his contract's guaranteed salary for the final year. You can find plenty of information that that happened, here is one source...

When Anderson agreed upon a trade to Phoenix back at the end of August, one condition was reducing his guaranteed salary for 2019-20 down from $21.4 million to Knight’s old salary of $15.6 million. If you’re able to connect the dots there, it seems like their next option of stretching the contract seems more realistic when you factor that point in.

But if you choose to waive Anderson on that site it says his guarantee is $21 million, which is not correct. So I'm not saying Shams is wrong but his site doesn't have the correct salary information.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The question is simply this. Was there a player option for his last year? If so, then only $15.6 million will apply to the cap.
If there was not, and Anderson simply agreed to a pre arranged buyout number, then it would be $21 million.

I have question in to the Suns to find out.

 

[slinslin]

The problem with that particular site is that it lists his guarantee at $21 million next year when that is not the case. Before the trade took place Anderson agreed to renegotiate his contract's guaranteed salary for the final year. You can find plenty of information that that happened, here is one source...

You keep saying this but his is not possible according to Q59 in the cbafaq.

On top of not being able to negotiate a "pay cut" which this is, Houston was also over the cap.

 

[SunsTzu]

The problem with that particular site is that it lists his guarantee at $21 million next year when that is not the case. Before the trade took place Anderson agreed to renegotiate his contract's guaranteed salary for the final year. You can find plenty of information that that happened, here is one source...



But if you choose to waive Anderson on that site it says his guarantee is $21 million, which is not correct. So I'm not saying Shams is wrong but his site doesn't have the correct salary information.

It's not updated with the guaranteed amount but the functionality still works. Since we all know the guaranteed amount is 15.6 I just wanted to provide reference that a buyout is not a renegotiation. Essentially what happened last year was the Suns and Anderson agreed to put an ETO in his existing contract, and that is the amount that will count towards the cap if waived.

 

[Mainstreet]

The question is simply this. Was there a player option for his last year? If so, then only $15.6 million will apply to the cap.
If there was not, and Anderson simply agreed to a pre arranged buyout number, then it would be $21 million.

I have question in to the Suns to find out.

There was not a player option for Anderson's last season.

 

[Hoop Head]

Anderson's contract could have been re-negotiated to INCREASE his salary, yes.

Your quote is leaving out the next sentence

The last sentence doesn't matter in this instance. He's not increasing the cap space for his team because he does not have a team if he's waived. It's the guaranteed total that was changed, which is perfectly acceptable. You refuse to look at anything other than 1 part of the CBA FAQ when there is information that expands on other reasons to modify a contract like Anderson did.

You are completely ignoring #60, "In what other ways can an existing contract be modified?"

Other than extensions (see question number 58) and renegotiations (see question number 59), a team and player can mutually modify an existing contract as follows:

• To alter the amount of compensation protection -- i.e., the guarantee (see question number 63). This is commonly done as part of a buyout (see question number 66).

Read everyone who talked about the trade now and the original trade for Anderson. The change was talked about by everyone who covered the trade from Woj to Gambo. All of them are reporting that the guaranteed salary is the cap hit and that it's only $16 million or so and not the entire $21 million. You are the only person saying it's something else and there's a reason for that, you are incorrect.

 

[slinslin]

It's not updated with the guaranteed amount but the functionality still works. Since we all know the guaranteed amount is 15.6 I just wanted to provide reference that a buyout is not a renegotiation. Essentially what happened last year was the Suns and Anderson agreed to put an ETO in his existing contract, and that is the amount that will count towards the cap if waived.

There is no ETO in Andersons contract.

 

[Bobster]

It's simple. Anderson agreed to lower the amount of the last year of his contract that is guaranteed down to $15.6 million in order to facilitate the trade to the Suns. The Suns were not looking to take on any more guaranteed salary than they had with Knight, so Anderson complied.

If he had not, his entire $21 million would have been guaranteed. There is not a team option or player option on 2019-20. They will have to waive him to save that $5.4 million.

 

[sdscard4]

Who gives a crap about the freaking money....it's a done deal it's all about TJ now. Let's see how he does

 

[JCSunsfan]

There was not a player option for Anderson's last season.

If thats the case, the this trade saves us $2 million this summer. It save us about $.66 million in waiving and stretching Johnson over waiving and stretching Anderson.

That is in cap $, not actual $.

 

[slinslin]

If you don't believe me try playing with http://www.shamsports.com/capulator and see what happens when you buyout/stretch. And if you think Shams is wrong then there certainly isn't anyone here who will be able to convince you.

The capulator is just a toy to play around with rosters it does not take into account all CBA rules, eg you can make trades with anyone for anyone or buy out players for 0.

If all you said was true the Suns could in theory buy out Devin Booker for 0, he would be completely off of the cap and could sign a max contract elsewhere.

 

[SunsTzu]

There is no ETO in Andersons contract.

I know, but him agreeing to only guarantee 15.6mil is effectively the same thing. Or you can look at it as putting in a buyout option, whatever makes it more relatable for you. Fact of the matter is it will be treated as a buyout and not considered a renegotiation.

 

[SirStefan32]

I am by no means an expert, but everything that has ever been reported said that his salary IF he is bought out, would be $15.6M. Slin's argument actually makes sense to me, but I have never seen anyone report that.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Who gives a crap about the freaking money....it's a done deal it's all about TJ now. Let's see how he does

I just realized that puts us to 2 TJ's on the team. Didn't we have 2 JJ's at one point too? Did all 3 ever overlap? Jumaine Jones, Jimmy Jackson, Joe Johnson?

 

[SirStefan32]

I just realized that puts us to 2 TJ's on the team. Didn't we have 2 JJ's at one point too? Did all 3 ever overlap? Jumaine Jones, Jimmy Jackson, Joe Johnson?

Wasn't it James Jones, the current GM?

 

[Mainstreet]

If Anderson is not bought out, he would be paid $21,264,637 for next season.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I just realized that puts us to 2 TJ's on the team. Didn't we have 2 JJ's at one point too? Did all 3 ever overlap? Jumaine Jones, Jimmy Jackson, Joe Johnson?

IIRC we had a different combo of JJ's each year for 3 or 4 years running. James Jones was in that mix along with the 3 you mention. One of the years we had a pair of JJ's and a pair of JV's (Voskuhl and Vroman). And then we had the years with at least one JK and at least one KJ. We like the letter J.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Wasn't it James Jones, the current GM?

Hah, totally forgot about him. Fun fact, from 2004/05 to 06/07 we always had 2 JJs on the team but never the same two.

04/05 - Joe Johnson, Jim Jackson
05/06 - Jim Jackson, James Jones
06/07 - James Jones, Jumaine Jones

Ok, back to arguing about 6 million dollars.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There is a reason to care about the buyout issue or not. It is either a cap space positive or negative, one way or the other.

 

[SirStefan32]

There is a reason to care about the buyout issue or not. It is either a cap space positive or negative, one way or the other.

Yeah but it's pretty negligible either way.

EDIT: Actually, it may not be. If they want a PG, they'll have to overpay, so $6M could actually end up being pretty damn significant, I think.

 

[slinslin]

Btw
Tyler Johnsons salary is only 12.5M for next season so Sarver is coming out well out of this.

Johnsons caphit is 19m only because of that weird poison pill or whatever contract that Brooklyn made to persuade Miami to not match.

Basically a 4yr/50 contract that paid 12.5 flat but when matched it somehow had a caphit of ~20 in the last 2.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Btw
Tyler Johnsons salary is only 12.5M for next season so Sarver is coming out well out of this.

Johnsons caphit is 19m only because of that weird poison pill or whatever contract that Brooklyn made to persuade Miami to not match.

The signing sets up a standoff between Pat Riley and Sean Marks. There are differing cap configurations depending on whether the Nets or Heat come away with the 6'4" swingman.

--Under the offer sheet, the Nets would pay Johnson $5.6 million next season, $5.9 in 2017-18; $18.9 million in 2018-19 and $19.6 million in 2019-20 -- but the deal would only count as $12.5 million on the cap, $12.5 million for each of the four years.

--If the Heat match, their cap would reflect the actual amounts paid out, except for this coming season, when the cap hit would be only $1.2 million, the amount of Johnson's qualifying offer. The Miami Herald has reported that . So, it would have been better for Pat Riley if Johnson hadn't signed anything and structured a deal more cap-friendly.

https://www.netsdaily.com/2016/7/7/...million-offer-sheet-giving-heat-three-days-to

 

[devilalum]

Bottom line the Suns have to play the Jazz tonight without the services of Ryan Anderson. Probably why they’re 16 pt dogs.


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[Russ Smith]

Gosh I should've been a basketball player...$20M to sit on the bench. Fml.

He's from Mountain View went to St Francis HS I saw him play in HS and nobody then though he was going to the NBA let alone 20 million a year. He was good but a late bloomer. his younger brother Logan is a freshman at Cincinnati, same thing late bloomer, really wanted UCLA to get him but he picked Cincy. They are both sneaky athletic, Tyler is quicker than you think gets to the rim very easily, Logan is a much better leaper than people think looking at him, skinny kid but can get up.

I wouldn't say Tyler is really a PG though.

Love to see people like that make it though, late bloomer hard worker