Tyler Johnson to the Suns

[GatorAZ]

Can we get these 32 pages of our life back?

 

[Hoop Head]

Part of me wouldn't mind taking a flyer on Waiters, but he may be a lost cause if Miami couldn't keep him in line.

There's a reason Memphis ate his salary next season so quickly. Waiving him while being stuck with his $10 million dollar cap hit should say all we need to know about him, if there were questions after how he screwed things up in Miami.

I'd much rather kick the tires on IT if we're looking to sign a guard. I think IT is a much better player than Waiters also. He has actually spoken well of his time here when I've heard it discussed. He hasn't said much but he also wasn't here long. He knew what happened wasn't the organization so much as other players politicking. I could see him blaming Dragic and possibly Hornacek more than the Suns organization. He also landed in a great spot in Boston where he had his best years, regardless of how that ended.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think they could sign someone now using the injury exception and letting that player slide into the roster spot when Frank returns. They may be limited to only doing a 10 day right now, with the injury exception but they can explain to the player they'll sign them outright once Tyler clears waivers.

I think that injury exception will come in handy now to help the team add someone before Tyler clears waivers though. I could be wrong but I know the issue with signing someone using that exception was having to waive someone when Frank is back but having the roster spot now eliminates that issue down the line.

This is a great thought. The Suns seemed to qualify before waiving Tyler Johnson.

However, my understanding is four players have to be out at least three days and since Tyler Johnson is gone they may no longer qualify.

That contingency in the league’s collective bargaining agreement only opens up to teams once they have four players who miss three or more games and will continue to be unavailable. The Suns already have three guys way above that limit in Aron Baynes (hip), Frank Kaminsky (knee) and Cam Johnson (quad), and knowing how grizzly ankle sprains can be, Saric is likely out for a bit longer as well. There’s no doubt Phoenix would be granted such an exception, if they applied through the NBA.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2020/2/6/21126395/phoenix-suns-eligible-injury-hardship-exception

 

[Hoop Head]

I do want to add that I would like future veteran buyouts to be handled similar to this. It came out of nowhere, in a way. I hoped it would happen after he wasn't dealt because I'd rather cut him than either Carter, Okobo, or Lecque if they needed to make room to sign a big. He was hot garbage this year but I didn't think they would actually waive him, even when he wasn't playing recently with his "injury". There weren't rumors of him being bought out that killed a trade market for him, similar to when we had Greg Monroe a couple years back.

It seems like whenever a veteran is mentioned as a buyout candidate but it's said the team is trying to trade them first, they don't get traded. Why should another team give up anything of value when they know they can sign them outright if they wait a little while longer.

That's part of why Memphis was adamant they weren't going to buyout Iggy. They finally got something for him also. In that case, Iggy made it difficult since he said he wouldn't play for Memphis so they had no choice but to wait with him but outside of that, they handled things well.

 

[clpp01]

What really blows my mind is that you assume that he didn't attempt to do just that. There probably just wasn't a deal they felt was worth doing since we would likely have to take back long term contracts to do it.

This is an on going pattern with the Suns, they have done this too frequently for them to honestly claim they couldn't find a deal that would help them. Since 2018 this is the 4th time they have released a player on an expiring contract (see Austin Rivers, Greg Monroe and Tyson Chandler) because they couldn't or wouldn't look to trade them to help improve the roster.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is an on going pattern with the Suns, they have done this too frequently for them to honestly claim they couldn't find a deal that would help them. Since 2018 this is the 4th time they have released a player on an expiring contract (see Austin Rivers, Greg Monroe and Tyson Chandler) because they couldn't or wouldn't look to trade them to help improve the roster.

They tried and failed for almost 2 seasons to find a trade for Tyson and there was just no market for Greg Monroe. We could have forced Rivers to report but even in a perfect situation he's not much more than a marginal player and not the kind of guy you want around a young locker room so it made no sense to force an unwilling player to report. And if you look around the league you'll see these kind of transactions are quite common - it is very much a player's league and it is rarely worth it to antagonize a player or his agent.

 

[leclerc]

Cheap bottom dwellers beats more expensive mediocrity. Bobby's cutting corners.

 

[SirStefan32]

People get upset over the strangest things. Sure, I wanted the Suns to get some help at the deadline, but I don't understand why anyone is mad that they waived TJ. I am upset that he forgot how to play basketball over the summer, but that's about it. He's been beyond useless this year. I am assuming they tried to find a buyer and nobody wanted him unless they could dump a long contract on the Suns, in which case, the Suns declined. I mean, if he was not on the Suns... what would you trade for him? Sure as hell not anything of value.

 

[clpp01]

They tried and failed for almost 2 seasons to find a trade for Tyson and there was just no market for Greg Monroe. We could have forced Rivers to report but even in a perfect situation he's not much more than a marginal player and not the kind of guy you want around a young locker room so it made no sense to force an unwilling player to report. And if you look around the league you'll see these kind of transactions are quite common - it is very much a player's league and it is rarely worth it to antagonize a player or his agent.

The value of the player is irrelevant, its the cap space/flexibility that is where the value is and why there is and always will be a market for expiring contracts. Robert Sarver's own actions prove this to be true see how he attaches assets to trade guys for cap space (Kurt Thomas, Josh Jackson, TJ Warren...)

You can also look at the flip side by looking at Trevor Ariza, he didn't have much of a market either, teams didn't value Ariza the player but rather his expiring contract to help them clean their books and the Suns (as much as they almost botched it) were able to get Kelly Oubre in return. There is no reason why they couldn't have made other deals where they take back a guy with an extra season or 2 on their contract in exchange for the expiring contract of a Monroe/Rivers/Chandler while being compensated for doing so with future draft picks or younger talent which is something this team is sorely lacking.

 

[Hoop Head]

Cheap bottom dwellers beats more expensive mediocrity. Bobby's cutting corners.

If someone is signed to fill that roster spot that is open now then it's the opposite of cost cutting move since he'd be paying more than he would have had if Tyler stayed through years end. Adding that extra contract for a new player to be signed, hopefully, wouldn't have been an expense if Tyler was kept through the end of the season.

When he's being cheap, he deserves to be bashed but this isn't one of those times.

 

[Hoop Head]

The value of the player is irrelevant, its the cap space/flexibility that is where the value is and why there is and always will be a market for expiring contracts. Robert Sarver's own actions prove this to be true see how he attaches assets to trade guys for cap space (Kurt Thomas, Josh Jackson, TJ Warren...)

You can also look at the flip side by looking at Trevor Ariza, he didn't have much of a market either, teams didn't value Ariza the player but rather his expiring contract to help them clean their books and the Suns (as much as they almost botched it) were able to get Kelly Oubre in return. There is no reason why they couldn't have made other deals where they take back a guy with an extra season or 2 on their contract in exchange for the expiring contract of a Monroe/Rivers/Chandler while being compensated for doing so with future draft picks or younger talent which is something this team is sorely lacking.

The player is relevant. Ariza is a horrible example because there was a market to trade him, which is why he was dealt as soon as he was eligible to me moved rather than the last minute at the deadline. There was interest in Ariza this year also when Sacramento traded him to Portland. Here's a tweet from Marc Stein last year mentioning Ariza as the top player available for trade on December 15th, when players signed in the offseason could be dealt.

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Here's an ESPN article about the Lakers trying to find a way to trade for Ariza last season....

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...-trying-add-suns-trevor-ariza-three-way-trade

There isn't talk of Ariza having value because he was expiring, it's who he was as a player. So your take on the Ariza deal is entirely off base.

If there was a team actively trying to clear salary this year then they were never discussed nationally and didn't make a deal to do so, anywhere. The Suns weren't the only team with expiring deals but no one valued the ones they had. There wasn't a trade made at the deadline for a team to clear salary for this summer. That should be enough to tell anyone there was no market for him. Definitely not a large enough market to get an asset in return for taking on a bad contract.

Sarver is always bashed as a bad owner so saying his desire to trade for cap space at any time isn't enough to say expiring's have value across the league, especially for the Suns to trade away an expiring.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns could have traded Tyler for a bad contract but I don't think anyone wanted that. A trade for the sake of a trade wouldn't do the Suns any good and would handicap them for years in making other personnel moves.

 

[leclerc]

Cheap or not they're not pulling any triggers to improve the team/save the season. Half the team is injured and the remaining guys are playing too many minutes. Gotto be pretty bone headed in my opinion to keep ignoring it, no actually, getting rid of healthy guys for nothing. So are we going to see more G league players getting DNP and Diallo getting 5 minutes playing time?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Cheap or not they're not pulling any triggers to improve the team/save the season. Half the team is injured and the remaining guys are playing too many minutes. Gotto be pretty bone headed in my opinion to keep ignoring it, no actually, getting rid of healthy guys for nothing. So are we going to see more G league players getting DNP and Diallo getting 5 minutes playing time?

It would be dumb to make any short term moves right now. This season isn’t going to be saved. They don’t need to tank, they should try to improve, it any move should be about the long term not short term.

 

[Mainstreet]

Cheap or not they're not pulling any triggers to improve the team/save the season. Half the team is injured and the remaining guys are playing too many minutes. Gotto be pretty bone headed in my opinion to keep ignoring it, no actually, getting rid of healthy guys for nothing. So are we going to see more G league players getting DNP and Diallo getting 5 minutes playing time?

Only a guess but I think the Suns are going to pick up a player that has been released.

Maybe they are waiting for Tyler Johnson to clear waivers so they have a roster spot available.

 

[Mainstreet]

Although I want a 4/5, Trey Burke would be a nice addition now and possibly for the future.

I haven't given up on Dragan Bender either.

 

[leclerc]

I don't get it. They have decent guys for a year all the time that they don't sign for even medium sized contracts. Is it so hard to find someone like that to limit the wear on our core and be a bit more competitive? Give us some big sauce!

 

[BC867]

I don't get it. They have decent guys for a year all the time that they don't sign for even medium sized contracts. Is it so hard to find someone like that to limit the wear on our core and be a bit more competitive? Give us some big sauce!

Didja ever think about the difference between K-Mart and WalMart? Once upon a time,
K-mart ruled the roost. Now, if the last few haven't been shut down by Sears (as well
as their own stores), they should be.

While WalMart prospers. They have even become successful on line. I don't enjoy
going into a WalMart, because it feels like a rummage sale, but they are successful.
They are no Amazon online but sometimes they have something that Amazon doesn't.

Why has WalMart prospered and K-Mart is dying? One word. Management.

Robert Sarver is the K-Mart of the NBA, where every team is worth over a billion dollars,
through nothing he's done. The old saying, "It takes money to make money.", doesn't
apply here. He and his cronies are stockpiling their profits through their own dumb luck.

And we, the fans, are stuck with a team that is being mismanaged. Just like K-Mart.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Didja ever think about the difference between K-Mart and WalMart? Once upon a time,
K-mart ruled the roost. Now, if the last few haven't been shut down by Sears (as well
as their own stores), they should be.

While WalMart prospers. They have even become successful on line. I don't enjoy
going into a WalMart, because it feels like a rummage sale, but they are successful.
They are no Amazon online but sometimes they have something that Amazon doesn't.

Why has WalMart prospered and K-Mart is dying? One word. Management.

Robert Sarver is the K-Mart of the NBA, where every team is worth over a billion dollars,
through nothing he's done. The old saying, "It takes money to make money.", doesn't
apply here. He and his cronies are stockpiling their profits through their own dumb luck.

And we, the fans, are stuck with a team that is being mismanaged. Just like K-Mart.

Technically, it was KMart that bought Sears, other than that, I am not sure the analogy. Sarver is making money, if that is his primary goal. He is just not winning. I know I am getting nit picky. Sorry.

 

[BC867]

Technically, it was KMart that bought Sears, other than that, I am not sure the analogy. Sarver is making money, if that is his primary goal. He is just not winning. I know I am getting nit picky. Sorry.

My main point was that K-Mart failed while WalMart has prospered.

They had the same opportunity to succeed. The difference had to
be management.

Just like the Suns, who have missed the playoffs for a decade.

Sarver could have still made money and produced a winning team.
If profit wasn't his only motive for buying the Suns.

Some leaders see the big picture and some don't. OK, maybe it is
not bad intentions. Maybe he just doesn't have the skill. Then he
should be delegating authority effectively.

Results show that something is missing.

 

[Mainstreet]

Sometimes I don't think we get the full picture of a player, mostly what we see on the court, then a photo brings it home.

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[leclerc]

Good luck in your future endeavors, TJ!

 

[95pro]

I truly thought Tyler was going to be an integral part of this season's turn around. I just think the decisions early on, put him in a bad spot to succeed. If he had started playing solid and consistent backup minutes right away within the rotation, I think he would have come to speed a lot quicker than what we are getting out of any other backup guard. The downside to having him succeed this year is whether or not to re-sign him to another contract.

 

[Mainstreet]

I truly thought Tyler was going to be an integral part of this season's turn around. I just think the decisions early on, put him in a bad spot to succeed. If he had started playing solid and consistent backup minutes right away within the rotation, I think he would have come to speed a lot quicker than what we are getting out of any other backup guard. The downside to having him succeed this year is whether or not to re-sign him to another contract.

If the Suns didn't trade Tyler for value, I was hoping if he performed well, the Suns could bring him back next season on a much smaller contract. Unfortunately this season was a big disappointment. Hopefully he finds another team.