Update: David Johnson sits out, wants contract extension

[BullheadCardFan]

I’m not begrudging giving him a new contract. I understand the short span of a players career (I mean look at DJ, two injuries in three years!). But it seems all of you are so quick to just throw tons of money at him. How did that work out with badger? You have to find mid-ground.

I know it’s easy for everyone to say “pay him what he wants” when (a) it’s not your money and (b) you don’t have to figure out contracts, how they work with one and other, projecting down the road, salary caps, the fact that as a gm managing all of that effectively will guide whether you have a job or not, etc.

I think a lot of you live in a sports world where everything is always flowers and rainbows and never look at the reality of facts, the fact that this is a business, or look into the future. I get that as a fan sports can be about immediate gratification, but that’s not the real world.

+1

Well put. I want the team to do what's right for the team. If they are going to extend DJ's contract the FO needs to be smart about it and not get stuck in a TM situation.

 

[Cardiac]

If you want to go with Choppers plan that do the math on what 2 franchise tags will cost, add the 2mil for this year and divide by 3. Then offer him that with a decent signing bonus and roster bonuses to protect against injurie. You could even make it a 4 or 5 year contract with those years paying him ~ 10 mil per year. That price looks big now but won't in 4 years and if he isn't still great than you cut him.

I get the "business" process of the franchise tags but the above plan accomplishes the same thing without coming across as heartless and cut throat.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I think so. I still believe the deal is done before TC. I think its the verbiage and incentives being ironed out still.



When have the Cards ever had the BEST RB in the league or even been in that conversation? The guy is the best offensive player on our team. He has a small window to make as much money as he can. People cry when we let good players walk or they leave in FA and now some guys want him to play out his final year? We dont need this crap hanging over our head for the next 3 seasons. Get a deal done with protection from injury and maybe incentives. If he balls out this year we probably have to pay him more than he would sign for at the moment.

The fact of the matter is any one of you would do the exact same thing in his shoes. Wether you admit it or not.

In history, more than once, OJ Anderson being the last.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If you want to go with Choppers plan that do the math on what 2 franchise tags will cost, add the 2mil for this year and divide by 3. Then offer him that with a decent signing bonus and roster bonuses to protect against injurie. You could even make it a 4 or 5 year contract with those years paying him ~ 10 mil per year. That price looks big now but won't in 4 years and if he isn't still great than you cut him.

I get the "business" process of the franchise tags but the above plan accomplishes the same thing without coming across as heartless and cut throat.

Actually it doesn’t because then you also give him a bonus which means more guaranteed money. Which you’re on the hook for if he gets injured and never plays again. With the tag route you likely pay more for each individual year, but you’re never going to have dead money on yiur ledger. I’m not saying this is the route I’d choose to take, but that doesn’t mean I don’t understand the logistics and allure of such a design.

 

[Cardiac]

Actually it doesn’t because then you also give him a bonus which means more guaranteed money. Which you’re on the hook for if he gets injured and never plays again. With the tag route you likely pay more for each individual year, but you’re never going to have dead money on yiur ledger. I’m not saying this is the route I’d choose to take, but that doesn’t mean I don’t understand the logistics and allure of such a design.

A decent signing bonus is the key phrase and then use roster bonuses for each year to guard against injury. I guess I'm far less worried that he will get injured this year then some of you. Plus if in year one of the franchise tag he gets injured early in the year he still gets that money so Cards are not really protected from "dead" money.

Dead money is a basic reality of NFL contracts, the hope is to minimize the amount and yes my plan has a higher risk of dead money but again it's not a Honey Badger risk.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

A decent signing bonus is the key phrase and then use roster bonuses for each year to guard against injury. I guess I'm far less worried that he will get injured this year then some of you. Plus if in year one of the franchise tag he gets injured early in the year he still gets that money so Cards are not really protected from "dead" money.

Dead money is a basic reality of NFL contracts, the hope is to minimize the amount and yes my plan has a higher risk of dead money but again it's not a Honey Badger risk.

He’s a running back. Of course there’s greater risk of injury. I believe RBs, on average, have the shortest lifespan in the nfl due to their increased risk. And on top of it, DJ is already 27. He came into the league older than most.

And dead money in-season is SO different than year-over-year dead money. So if he gets injured in year of the franchise tag the damage is limited to that year. No bleed over. There’s a reason a smart franchise like the Steelers is treating Bell the way they’re treating him.

 

[football karma]

Fwiw:

DJ is 26. He turns 27 in December.

If the caution line for RBs is age 30 and/or 2500 touches -- then he's got 4 more on age, 5 more on touches.

 

[HeHasRosen]

I’m not begrudging giving him a new contract. I understand the short span of a players career (I mean look at DJ, two injuries in three years!). But it seems all of you are so quick to just throw tons of money at him. How did that work out with badger? You have to find mid-ground.

I know it’s easy for everyone to say “pay him what he wants” when (a) it’s not your money and (b) you don’t have to figure out contracts, how they work with one and other, projecting down the road, salary caps, the fact that as a gm managing all of that effectively will guide whether you have a job or not, etc.

I think a lot of you live in a sports world where everything is always flowers and rainbows and never look at the reality of facts, the fact that this is a business, or look into the future. I get that as a fan sports can be about immediate gratification, but that’s not the real world.

It also depends on which side you look at it from. From a business side yeah that's the way you approach this, just as you say.
But from a players perspective its also part of the business. DJ has take care of his family. I tend to lean towards the players on things like this. Unless your Julio Jones then i can see where you dont even think about it with 3 years on a contract left.

And what if they sign him to a similar deal to Freeman maybe? Then he goes for 1000 and 1000. Hes locked in and worth every penny.

Its not the same as HB. Dude blew out both knees. That was a mistake but DJ should not be punished for him. Dont be the Steelers and create distractions. Plus imo its not the way the cardinals do business

 

[Cardiac]

He’s a running back. Of course there’s greater risk of injury. I believe RBs, on average, have the shortest lifespan in the nfl due to their increased risk. And on top of it, DJ is already 27. He came into the league older than most.

And dead money in-season is SO different than year-over-year dead money. So if he gets injured in year of the franchise tag the damage is limited to that year. No bleed over. There’s a reason a smart franchise like the Steelers is treating Bell the way they’re treating him.

The Steelers and our own Chopper have a solid business plan/thought process. I'm just not as concerned about DJ having a career ending injury anytime soon. SK could use this process I'm just hoping they are able to get a deal done instead of franchising him for two years and then him moving on.

HB is hitting us for over 9 mil in dead cap money this year so I do understand the concern. I would hope that if SK extends DJ now that he and his agent allow for a contract that is structured better than HB's.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It also depends on which side you look at it from. From a business side yeah that's the way you approach this, just as you say.
But from a players perspective its also part of the business. DJ has take care of his family. I tend to lean towards the players on things like this. Unless your Julio Jones then i can see where you dont even think about it with 3 years on a contract left.

And what if they sign him to a similar deal to Freeman maybe? Then he goes for 1000 and 1000. Hes locked in and worth every penny.

Its not the same as HB. Dude blew out both knees. That was a mistake but DJ should not be punished for him. Dont be the Steelers and create distractions. Plus imo its not the way the cardinals do business

No offense but I am laughing so hard at the distractions comment. That is a team that has consistently done biz this way and all those distractions have net them how many playoff seasons? Consistent contender status. Super Bowls?

 

[HeHasRosen]

No offense but I am laughing so hard at the distractions comment. That is a team that has consistently done biz this way and all those distractions have net them how many playoff seasons? Consistent contender status. Super Bowls?

Laugh all you want but the steelers have been underachievers a bit lately. When you have top 5 QB top 2 RB and the #1 WR and consistently get bounced out of the playoffs, to me that says something about this team. When they were winning Superbowls there was a cohesion in that locker room.

I believe these distractions like AB's locker room videos or his diva like me first attitude. Big Ben throwing a fit because they draft a QB in the third round. Or Bell holding out every season, id say its had an affect on them getting over the hump.

We aren't the Steelers though we don't have the history to afford to do business like them. Guys have to want to come here and stay. We need to do right by guys like Fitz or DJ. Stand up dudes that want to do right on and off the field. This team has changed the culture here but it has been a long process. Were close but still not there yet. They may have overpaid a couple guys here or there but i like the way they have done business as of late.

 

[ajcardfan]

No offense but I am laughing so hard at the distractions comment. That is a team that has consistently done biz this way and all those distractions have net them how many playoff seasons? Consistent contender status. Super Bowls?

Why don't you just be a Steelers fan? Obviously, it would be easier for you.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Laugh all you want but the steelers have been underachievers a bit lately. When you have top 5 QB top 2 RB and the #1 WR and consistently get bounced out of the playoffs, to me that says something about this team. When they were winning Superbowls there was a cohesion in that locker room.

I believe these distractions like AB's locker room videos or his diva like me first attitude. Big Ben throwing a fit because they draft a QB in the third round. Or Bell holding out every season, id say its had an affect on them getting over the hump.

We aren't the Steelers though we don't have the history to afford to do business like them. Guys have to want to come here and stay. We need to do right by guys like Fitz or DJ. Stand up dudes that want to do right on and off the field. This team has changed the culture here but it has been a long process. Were close but still not there yet. They may have overpaid a couple guys here or there but i like the way they have done business as of late.

This.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Laugh all you want but the steelers have been underachievers a bit lately. When you have top 5 QB top 2 RB and the #1 WR and consistently get bounced out of the playoffs, to me that says something about this team. When they were winning Superbowls there was a cohesion in that locker room.

I believe these distractions like AB's locker room videos or his diva like me first attitude. Big Ben throwing a fit because they draft a QB in the third round. Or Bell holding out every season, id say its had an affect on them getting over the hump.

We aren't the Steelers though we don't have the history to afford to do business like them. Guys have to want to come here and stay. We need to do right by guys like Fitz or DJ. Stand up dudes that want to do right on and off the field. This team has changed the culture here but it has been a long process. Were close but still not there yet. They may have overpaid a couple guys here or there but i like the way they have done business as of late.

Steelers since cards moved to AZ:

4 of 29 seasons below .500 (2 of which were 7-9).

19 of 29 seasons in playoffs

In 4 Super Bowls, 9 conference championship games

Don’t let players run the asylum
Plax- bye
Holmes - bye
Wallace - bye
Emmanuel Sanders - bye
Joey porter - bye

And wth are you talking about “history” and “guys have to want to come here”?!? The Steelers don’t experience their success based on their “history” or attracting free agents in droves. Neither of which has anything to do, even a little, with the conversation about whether it’s a good team/business decision to extend DJ, or for how long or for how much money or to franchise tag him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Why don't you just be a Steelers fan? Obviously, it would be easier for you.

Ah the old “you’re not a real fan” garbage. You’re a joke.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This.

13-3
11-5
10-6
11-5
8-8
8-8
12-4
12-4
9-7
12-4

Total 106-54

Define “underachiever” please. These are their records the last decade.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

13-3
11-5
10-6
11-5
8-8
8-8
12-4
12-4
9-7
12-4

Total 106-54

Define “underachiever” please. These are their records the last decade.

He said, "...a bit lately..." meaning not performing up to expectations, especially in the playoffs. I don't view that as an outrageous or controversial statement.

 

[TJ]

Give the man 5 years $42 million with $15-$16 million bonus and guarantee of $24 million. Done.

This is a fair deal.

 

[ajcardfan]

Ah the old “you’re not a real fan” garbage. You’re a joke.

I think you need to change your Tampon.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He said, "...a bit lately..." meaning not performing up to expectations, especially in the playoffs. I don't view that as an outrageous or controversial statement.

Lately?

34-14 in last three seasons.
2015 - won a playoff game and lost to super bowl champion broncos
2016 - win two playoff games and lost in conference finals to super bowl champion patriots
2016 - barely lost in divisional round

So they averaged 11+ wins in the regular season, won three playoff games, and two of the years were knocked out of the playoffs by the super bowl champions.

I mean unless the “expectations” were that they made the super bowl all three years it doesn’t look like they underperformed their expectations.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Ouchie is correct. Over the last two decades the Cardinals have had a strong history of finding "great" RBs to fill out their roster:

Leeland McElroy
Adrian Murrell
Thomas Jones
Michael Pittman
Marcel Shipp
JJ Arrington
Beanie Wells
Larod Stephens-Howling
Ryan Williams
Rashard Mendenhall
Stepfan Taylor
Andre Ellington


So there is no need to worry about eventually losing DJ to FA... The DJs of the world are a dime a dozen.

Plus how many Great RBs have ever returned from a major wrist injury. I doubt DJ will ever be able to win the world wrist wresting championship now.

Sure DJ is probably the next face of the Franchise when that over paid Fitzgerald finally retires. Hopefully the Cardinals learned their lesson after overpaying Fitz for so many years. We all know how spoiling a superstar like Fitz turned out.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ouchie is correct. Over the last two decades the Cardinals have had a strong history of finding "great" RBs to fill out their roster:

Leeland McElroy
Adrian Murrell
Thomas Jones
Michael Pittman
Marcel Shipp
JJ Arrington
Beanie Wells
Larod Stephens-Howling
Ryan Williams
Rashard Mendenhall
Stepfan Taylor
Andre Ellington


So there is no need to worry about eventually losing DJ to FA... The DJs of the world are a dime a dozen.

Plus how many Great RBs have ever returned from a major wrist injury. I doubt DJ will ever be able to win the world wrist wresting championship now.

Sure DJ is probably the next face of the Franchise when that over paid Fitzgerald finally retires. Hopefully the Cardinals learned their lesson after overpaying Fitz for so many years. We all know how spoiling a superstar like Fitz turned out.

Yes you paraphrased my thoughts exactly! So good! I DEFINITELY said we should let DJ walk never anywhere in anything I posted.

Btw, I can’t name a single RB that lost an entire season for a dislocated wrist. Can you? In other words we have ZERO idea how debilitating it might be. You downplay the injury like it’s nothing . . . HE MISSED AN ENTIRE SEASON.

And face of the franchise? You expecting 14 seasons outta a 26 - turns 27 in-season - RB?

 

[MadCardDisease]

Yes you paraphrased my thoughts exactly! So good! I DEFINITELY said we should let DJ walk never anywhere in anything I posted.

Btw, I can’t name a single RB that lost an entire season for a dislocated wrist. Can you? In other words we have ZERO idea how debilitating it might be. You downplay the injury like it’s nothing . . . HE MISSED AN ENTIRE SEASON.

And face of the franchise? You expecting 14 seasons outta a 26 - turns 27 in-season - RB?

TJ Logan

 

[MadCardDisease]

And face of the franchise? You expecting 14 seasons outta a 26 - turns 27 in-season - RB?

I fully expect another 5 strong years out of DJ. Yes he is 26 years old. But he only has 550 touches in his three year NFL Career. Plenty of tread left on those tires.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

TJ Logan

And what’s he proven since then? We have no data set to determine what, if anything, that injury holds for the future, right?