USA Today Names Diaw Top Center in the NBA

[George O'Brien]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2006-03-07-scorers-table_x.htm

Top centers are new breed
By David DuPree, USA TODAY
The role of the NBA center has been diminished as the game has become more open and ruled by multi-dimensional perimeter players.

The Suns acquired deft-passing Boris Diaw figuring he would back up point guard Steve Nash.
By Tony Gutierrez, AP

Only one center, Pau Gasol of Memphis, is among the league's top 20 scorers — and he is 20th with a 20.2 average going into Monday's games. Of the 30 starting centers in the league, 14 don't even have scoring averages in double figures. (Related item: Ranking the centers)

When USA Basketball on Sunday announced its 23-man roster from which the 2006 World Championships and 2008 Olympic teams will be chosen, only one true center was on the list —Brad Miller of Sacramento. Shaquille O'Neal of Miami has been issued an invitation but has yet to commit.

"We may not have the typical post man, but there aren't any of those guys in the country — except Shaq," says Jerry Colangelo, managing director of USA Basketball.

Only a few teams use a traditional, conventional low-post center. Most of them prefer a more versatile player who can make a medium-range jump shot, handle the basketball and run the floor — such as Gasol, Miller, Boris Diaw of the Phoenix Suns and Marcus Camby of the Denver Nuggets.

Other teams, such as the Detroit Pistons with Ben Wallace and Dallas Mavericks with DeSagana Diop, use centers as primarily a defensive presence. Only three teams — Miami with O'Neal, the Houston Rockets with Yao Ming and Cleveland Cavaliers with Zydrunas Ilgauskas— really have the old-time center, who is a dominant inside force and seldom ventures far from the basket or plays facing it.

With a different focus on the role of the center, Diaw, who can play all five positions, comes out as the top center using a USA TODAY rating system that ranks the centers from each of the 30 teams against each other. Every category from durability to free throw shooting is measured and weighted equally.

Diaw, who became the Suns' starting center only four games ago after an injury to Kurt Thomas, had been the starting power forward and was playing about 20 minutes as the backup center, as well. At 6-8, he is the shortest starting center in the league. He has two triple-doubles this season and is the best ballhandling center in the league, averaging 5.9 assists.

When the Suns acquired Diaw this summer in the trade that sent Joe Johnson to Atlanta, coach Mike D'Antoni envisioned him as Steve Nash's backup at point guard.

"He's so incredibly versatile," D'Antoni said. "On one end, we run the offense through him like he's a point guard, and on defense, we stick him on the biggest guy. It's a real burden for other teams to find a matchup for him."

Diaw, who plays on the French national team with Tony Parker of the Spurs, prefers to play against guys his own size instead of the likes of the 7-6 Yao or 7-1 O'Neal. But he says he is eager to do whatever the Suns need of him.

"I'm playing against some really big guys," he says, "but I'm getting used to it."

Ranking the centers
How the results were derived: The current starting center or the player who plays the most minutes at the position from each of the 30 teams were ranked against each other in 10 statistical categories.

Name, team PPG Blk Stl Ast Reb FT% FG% 3FGM Durability Win% Total
Boris Diaw, Phoenix 9 16 5 1 16 10 12 4 1 4 78
Pau Gasol, Memphis 2 5 8 3 9 16 22 5 1 8 79
Ben Wallace, Detroit 21 4 1 5 1 30 15 7 1 1 86
Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Cleveland 5 8 9 13 14 2 17 7 10 7 92
Marcus Camby, Denver 7 1 2 6 2 11 23 6 27 12 97
Mehmet Okur, Utah 4 19 13 4 8 5 26 2 1 17 99
Chris Kaman, L.A. Clippers 12 11 15 15 6 8 9 7 15 6 104
Brad Miller, Sacramento 6 26 4 2 13 1 18 3 18 17 108
Yao Ming, Houston 1 10 14 9 4 4 16 7 27 19 111
Shaquille O'Neal, Miami 3 7 22 8 7 29 1 7 26 5 115

The others: 11, Samuel Dalembert, Philadelphia, 125. 12, P.J. Brown, New Orleans/Oklahoma City, 137. 13 (tie), Brendan Haywood, Washington, and Zaza Pachulia, Atlanta, 144. 15, Mark Blount, Minnesota, 146. 16, Tyson Chandler, Chicago, 153. 17, Jamaal Magloire, Milwaukee, 155. 18, Nenad Krstic, New Jersey, 156. 19, Chris Mihm, L.A. Lakers, 162. 20, Jeff Foster, Indiana, 167. 21, Raef LaFrentz, Boston, 168. 22, Nazr Mohammed, San Antonio, 170. 23, Tony Battie, Orlando, 171. 24, DeSagana Diop, Dallas, 172. 25, Joel Przybilla, Portland, 173. 26, Eddy Curry, New York, 176. 27, Adonal Foyle, Golden State, 181. 28, Primoz Brezec, Charlotte, 190. 29, Robert Swift, Seattle, 209. 30, Rafael Araujo, Toronto, 258.

Category key: PPG — points per game; Blk — blocked shots; Stl — steals; Ast — assists; Reb — rebounds; FT% — free throw percentage; FG% — field goal percentage; 3FGM — three-point shots made per game; Durability —% of team's games played in; Win% — team winning percentage.

The numbers are "rankings", so low numbers are good and high numers are bad.

 

[fordronken]

The three point field goal make category is a little ridiculous. Diaw is 4th and I don't think he's made more than 3 all year.

 

[kaesile]

How viable is having Diaw play center for an extended period (i.e. the rest of the season)? At this point, I'm still in the 'very useful and effective stopgap measure' camp - is it possible to go into the 'he's a legit backup center' side? He gives up a fair amount of size, and being banged around for a long stretch might affect his play. Then again, Marion played PF all last year successfully, so who knows?

I guess my point is, if Diaw is a legitimate center option for the Suns when we actually start the playoffs, then Phoenix suddenly has an unstoppable center rotation for the first time in - well, ever. Obviously Kurt Thomas is a decent center, but now Amare Stoudemire is calling himself a center too (the whole point center concept). If we have Diaw able to play the center spot for extended stretches, then that's where we can really become unstoppable.

But right now, I think comparing Diaw to actual centers like Pau Gasol (who plays PF mostly) or even Marcus Camby or Shaq might be journalistic hyperbole.

 

[elindholm]

Ha! As much as I love the idea of having traded Joe Johnson for the best center in the league plus two first-round picks, this analysis is a little silly. One rule of thumb is, if your methodology gives you a garbage answer, you need to reconsider your methodology.

Still, at least it will be a few days before we can all complain again about how Suns players get no respect from the national media.

 

[panfolk]

Obviously Kurt Thomas is a decent center, but now Amare Stoudemire is calling himself a center too (the whole point center concept). If we have Diaw able to play the center spot for extended stretches, then that's where we can really become unstoppable.

Is Amare calling himself a Center regularly? I will not buy into Amare as a point center just because he's fast. He needs to actually pass out of the double team regularly to have that distinction. Last year his passing game wasn't even a blip on the radar of his talent. If Diaw can be called a center then I'd say he's earned the distinction.

 

[kaesile]

Is Amare calling himself a Center regularly? I will not buy into Amare as a point center just because he's fast. He needs to actually pass out of the double team regularly to have that distinction. Last year his passing game wasn't even a blip on the radar of his talent. If Diaw can be called a center then I'd say he's earned the distinction.

I was dubious about that also (felt like it was more PR spin than anything, on both Stoudemire and the Suns' part), but I remember a quote from him in an article a few days ago.

Found it:

“He’s a big man with skills and that’s what we’re about,’’ said Suns center Amaré Stoudemire, who is inching closer to joining that group himself. “Myself at center, Boris Diaw, Shawn Marion, Tim Thomas . . . we’re all perfect for the style we love.”

I think that it's the fact that he's calling himself a center now that's the difference from last year, when the Suns just started three forwards. It's more semantics than anything at this point, however. We have yet to see Stoudemire implement his perimeter game or passing that he's been working on.

 

[George O'Brien]

The three point field goal make category is a little ridiculous. Diaw is 4th and I don't think he's made more than 3 all year.

I haven't looked, but I don't think most other centers shoot three pointers either.

 

[Mad Psyentist]

Im betting that Diaw is gonna be paid way more this summer than anyone originally predicted. Maybe not max, but the fact that hes so versatile and considered a "big" with passing skills, he's gonna be worth stupid money to a lot of teams out there. I know people might assume that hes loyal to us for unlocking his potential...but hes still gonna want to get near market value.

So this worries me. If we are able to extend Diaw's contract, i bet we might have to end up dumping Kurt's contract just to dump it. I also dont know if theres gonna be enough money to go around for Eddie and Barbosa, not to mention draft picks (Im doubting we have a real draft pick for a while).

Just some food for thought. Though in the end, a frontline of Marion, Diaw, and Stoudemire is just sick!

 

[Chaplin]

The three point field goal make category is a little ridiculous. Diaw is 4th and I don't think he's made more than 3 all year.

If there ranking is based on the three-point shooting in the position, why is that ridiculous? I mean, he's being compared to Ben Wallace for chrissakes!

 

[George O'Brien]

One key point of the article is that classic centers are becoming passe.

It used to be that teams could win with really big, slow defensive guys like Rik Smits, Greg Ostertag, and Mark Eaton. They really clogged up the middle and made teams shoot jumper shots.

No one is having success with that kind of player any more. All the big centers are more important offensively than they are defensively. If anything, they are defensive liabilities if the other teams run.

Last season Houston had some success against the Suns because Yao limited Amare's dunking. This season the Rockets are road kill because Yao simply can't run for an entire game and the Suns had a 47 point quarter against Shaq and the Heat. Teams are being forced to go small to play the Suns and if they can't, like the Mavs they get killed.

 

[Gaddabout]

I guess my point is, if Diaw is a legitimate center option for the Suns when we actually start the playoffs, then Phoenix suddenly has an unstoppable center rotation for the first time in - well, ever. Obviously Kurt Thomas is a decent center, but now Amare Stoudemire is calling himself a center too (the whole point center concept). If we have Diaw able to play the center spot for extended stretches, then that's where we can really become unstoppable.

D'Antoni doesn't use any of these guys as a traditional center on offense. It's a little deceptive. If he had a real center, that guy would never play. This is especially true of Diaw, who definitely fills the roll of point center. There's no other 5 who can keep up with him, and he moves a lot. Thomas is closest thing to a center of those three -- he sets great picks. Stoudemire may be called a center, but it doesn't matter what position he plays -- he's going to be on the elbow regardless while the other four players spread the floor.

The trick is on defense, where this whole experiment looks horrible. Diaw does fine harassing opposing centers, but the Suns will never be able to extend their defense if he's logging the majority of minutes at the 5. There's no deterent once a defender gets by the perimeter. The Suns sag and expect teams to shoot over them ... so you have bad teams who can get really hot. It just hasn't burned the Suns yet because they haven't run into a team that can hit open shots for four quarters.

Im betting that Diaw is gonna be paid way more this summer than anyone originally predicted. Maybe not max, but the fact that hes so versatile and considered a "big" with passing skills, he's gonna be worth stupid money to a lot of teams out there. I know people might assume that hes loyal to us for unlocking his potential...but hes still gonna want to get near market value.

Am I missing something? I thought Diaw was under contract through 07/08. Aren't he and Barbosa still on their rookie contracts? As I understand it, the Suns would need to just make a qualifying offer on both of these for 07/08. Otherwise, Phoenix is getting a lot of bang for their buck from both of these players for at least two more years. I think Tim Thomas, Grant and Burke are the only players due for new contracts.

 

[panfolk]

D'Antoni doesn't use any of these guys as a traditional center on offense. It's a little deceptive. If he had a real center, that guy would never play.

Great point.

 

[playstation]

its a semantic thing on whether to call him a center. bottom line is the other team usually has 2 'big men' in the game at any given time. with diaw and amare in there, diaw will guard the guy that is the 'scorer', and amare will be weakside. it doesn't matter what you call them, they're our inside guys.

against the spurs, amare will be 'center' because he'll be on nazr, but against the rockets he'll be a pf cause diaw will guard yao.

bottom line, the versatility of our 3,4,5 guys is out of this world. anyone of them can handle, play post, shoot the 3, play defense, and rebound. that has never been seen in a frontline. ever. oh, and our backcourt is pretty good too

 

[Errntknght]

You guys are rather wrong about your view of the 'traditional' or 'true' center. Sure there were big, slow guys that played but Mark Eaton/Ostertag types were not a majority in any era and were rarely found on the most successful teams. (Rik Smits was not in that category by the way as he was quite good offensively - and could shoot jumpers out to 20 feet. He wasn't even that slow before he had foot problems - he'd put the ball on the floor and drive, believe it or not. Quite a sight at 7'4 and long gangling arms.)

In fact there have been face up centers who shot from long range as long as I can remember. Bob McAdo, Alvan Adams, Robert Parish, Jerry Lucas, Bill Laimbier, Jack Sikma, Dan Issel, Dave Cowans, Hot Rod Williams are a few that come to mind. Even 'Zo and Vlade had very good range though they did play low post much of the time. I've named the top ones but there have been a raft of lesser lights with face up games... Danny Shayes, Waymon Tisdale, Danny Ferry, Bill Wennington etc etc.

There have been low post players with lots of offense and agile shot blockers manning the C position over the years, too, so it's been a pretty mixed bag for a long time.

 

[Yuma]

You guys are rather wrong about your view of the 'traditional' or 'true' center. Sure there were big, slow guys that played but Mark Eaton/Ostertag types were not a majority in any era and were rarely found on the most successful teams. (Rik Smits was not in that category by the way as he was quite good offensively - and could shoot jumpers out to 20 feet. He wasn't even that slow before he had foot problems - he'd put the ball on the floor and drive, believe it or not. Quite a sight at 7'4 and long gangling arms.)

In fact there have been face up centers who shot from long range as long as I can remember. Bob McAdo, Alvan Adams, Robert Parish, Jerry Lucas, Bill Laimbier, Jack Sikma, Dan Issel, Dave Cowans, Hot Rod Williams are a few that come to mind. Even 'Zo and Vlade had very good range though they did play low post much of the time. I've named the top ones but there have been a raft of lesser lights with face up games... Danny Shayes, Waymon Tisdale, Danny Ferry, Bill Wennington etc etc.

There have been low post players with lots of offense and agile shot blockers manning the C position over the years, too, so it's been a pretty mixed bag for a long time.

Add Hakeem Olajawon as a good jump shooting center, too!

 

[Gaddabout]

You guys are rather wrong about your view of the 'traditional' or 'true' center. Sure there were big, slow guys that played but Mark Eaton/Ostertag types were not a majority in any era and were rarely found on the most successful teams. (Rik Smits was not in that category by the way as he was quite good offensively - and could shoot jumpers out to 20 feet. He wasn't even that slow before he had foot problems - he'd put the ball on the floor and drive, believe it or not. Quite a sight at 7'4 and long gangling arms.)

In fact there have been face up centers who shot from long range as long as I can remember. Bob McAdo, Alvan Adams, Robert Parish, Jerry Lucas, Bill Laimbier, Jack Sikma, Dan Issel, Dave Cowans, Hot Rod Williams are a few that come to mind. Even 'Zo and Vlade had very good range though they did play low post much of the time. I've named the top ones but there have been a raft of lesser lights with face up games... Danny Shayes, Waymon Tisdale, Danny Ferry, Bill Wennington etc etc.

There have been low post players with lots of offense and agile shot blockers manning the C position over the years, too, so it's been a pretty mixed bag for a long time.

Alvan Adams was very much like the way Diaw is used now. However, even Adams spent some time in the pivot on occasion, his back to the basket.

 

[nowagimp]

One key point of the article is that classic centers are becoming passe.

It used to be that teams could win with really big, slow defensive guys like Rik Smits, Greg Ostertag, and Mark Eaton. They really clogged up the middle and made teams shoot jumper shots.

No one is having success with that kind of player any more. All the big centers are more important offensively than they are defensively. If anything, they are defensive liabilities if the other teams run.

Last season Houston had some success against the Suns because Yao limited Amare's dunking. This season the Rockets are road kill because Yao simply can't run for an entire game and the Suns had a 47 point quarter against Shaq and the Heat. Teams are being forced to go small to play the Suns and if they can't, like the Mavs they get killed.

The true big men have a weakness, that they cant run too much without blood flow supply problems to the brain ( its a height vs heart size problem). They fatigue before smaller players in a general sense. The suns KILL opposing bigs by running them, especially the ones with alot of mass(shaq, not camby, who is a horse). Opposing teams want to slow the game down, take timeouts to let their big guys rest. If the suns control the tempo, those big guys fatigue and start missing everything. Because this years suns team is so deep, the running can be continuous, and still have enough energy to play some D at the end of games. The suns are still 3rd or 4th in the league in points per possession defense.

Running teams have always posed problems for big guys. And now the NBA is shifting in the rules towards a more athletic game, less banging, more speed and high flying. The acceptance of the NBA in europe, a financial matter for the NBA marketing dept, probably will not occur unless the game shifts to a less brutal style. The europeans just dont like WWF basketball, where shaq accuses Matumbo of flopping after giving him 10(?) stitches in the lip with his elbow. And besides, we proved to them that we can be beaten with a better strategy and lesser talent.

 

[mathbzh]

he acceptance of the NBA in europe, a financial matter for the NBA marketing dept, probably will not occur unless the game shifts to a less brutal style.

You didn't see the greeks play to say that

 

[nowagimp]

You didn't see the greeks play to say that

I think that we can send a team of:

Shaq
Ben Wallace
Alonzo Mourning
Ron Artest
Lebron

these guys can show the greeks the meaning of true brutality.

 

[fordronken]

If there ranking is based on the three-point shooting in the position, why is that ridiculous? I mean, he's being compared to Ben Wallace for chrissakes!

I meant it's a ridiculous category if making five three pointers gives you as many ranking points as being the fourth best rebounding center in the league.

 

[reader]

These quotes are from Dupree's chat today.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands: Hi Dave, what's up? I read your piece on the centers in the NBA, thanks, I really liked it. Boris Diaw number 1, and Shaq at the bottom? Obviously, Shaq'a rating is somewhat skewed because of his free trows and durability, but still. Ten years ago, a group of dominant centers were leading the league in scoring and into the Finals. Now Diaw, Gasol and Ben Wallece lead the way. I guess times are a changin'. This is going to change even more once Shaq retires. Right now, without a big center, playing the likes of Shaq is a automatic loss. Teams will not have to have a big center to counter Shaq when he quits, and we can expect more Diaw-like centers. At the present time, this puts a premium on Shaq. My question is, now that Shaq turned 34 the other day, how many years do you think Shaq will continue to play. In a center-less league, he could probably play into his 40-ties, if he chooses so. Thanks, Sanjay
David DuPree: Shaq still skews the game more than anyone else, and I think he can go for five more years. The game just isn't what it used to be. It has evolved into a game where the nonspecialists -- guys who can do everything -- are the keys. Sheer size has become the most overrated quality.
Arlington, VA: Why do you have Shaq ranked as #10 and Yao at #9? Is there any justification?
David DuPree: It isn't personal or editorial. I picked the 10 categories and rated all of them equally. I can't help it if your boy came up after Yao. Of course, anyone in his right mind would pick Shaq. I was just pointing out what would happen if you rated players solely on their on-court stats -- not rep or anything else -- and required that they be accomplished at everything. You want to know why Phoenix is so darn good? It starts with Nash, but when you have two players who can do what Shawn Maron and Boris Diaw do, you are going to have a great team. Numbers can be misleading at times, but they never lie.

 

[elindholm]

Numbers can be misleading at times, but they never lie.

What the hell does that mean? I'm a big fan of statistics, but Rule #1 is, "Know what you're trying to measure."

This guy is a moron.

 

[nowagimp]

Yeah, the idea that rebounding is equally weighted with 3 pt shooting(and I think Boris has made 10 or so) is rediculous. Number never do lie, its just that fools like Dupree abuse the numbers in an attempt to interpret them.

 

[George O'Brien]

It might be interesting to come up with a different measure that actually describes what centers do. This would mean rating rebounding a lot more than three point shots, blocks over steals, etc.

It still leaves out the the most important stat, which is how well the opponent's inside guy does, but a better weighting would at least be more useful than this equal value thing.

 

[Gaddabout]

Numbers can be misleading at times, but they never lie.

What the hell does that mean? I'm a big fan of statistics, but Rule #1 is, "Know what you're trying to measure."

This guy is a moron.

He forgot the rest of that maxim:

Numbers don't lie, but sports journalists know how to twist them to make them fit their preconceptions.