USC's big winner....Winston Justice

[Rats]

I read Scouts Inc daily and they have considered Palmer a first round prospect since the end of the season and before the Senior Bowl.

I think you mean Cutler not Palmer since that is who we are talking about. I guess it is hard to be wrong when you are talking about the wrong guy.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

LOL I wrote Palmer not Cutler. I edited it.

I am not super high on Cutler, but there has been definitive buzz on him since the season end. Kiper only parrots what scouts tell him.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I think you mean Cutler not Palmer since that is who we are talking about. I guess it is hard to be wrong when you are talking about the wrong guy.

Nice try at sarcasm, but it doesn't change the fact that you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to Cutler. Like him or hate him, Scouts Inc has been high on him for quite some time.

 

[earthsci]

This site has a few precombine/preworkout mocks with Cutler going in the first.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/mock.html

 

[Rats]

LOL I wrote Palmer not Cutler. I edited it.

I am not super high on Cutler, but there has been definitive buzz on him since the season end. Kiper only parrots what scouts tell him.

There was definite buzz but not solid early 1st round buzz until his workouts were he jetted up most boards. He was being considered with Omar Jacobs, Charlie Whitehurst and Gradkowski in early Mocks in January. All in the 2nd round late 1st at best.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

In any event, as far as the actual topic and yet not another thread filled with BS and disinformation on Young and Cutler...

If we pick Justice, I am confident that Green did it because he felt he was the best player available. Russ is correct on his character issues though, which is what has kept his projections down in the late first round.

The likelihood of us taking him seem to depend on how much Green values character.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

There was definite buzz but not solid early 1st round buzz until his workouts were he jetted up most boards. He was being considered with Omar Jacobs, Charlie Whitehurst and Gradkowski in early Mocks in January. All in the 2nd round late 1st at best.

Do you even own a subscription to Scouts Inc? THEY had him mid first round since before the Senior Bowl. He moved into the first round about midway through the regular season.

In addition, I am actually giving a source, not just "all the mocks" ect...

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Ugh...addition not edition. At least I am catching it before BIM gets me.

 

[Rats]

This site has a few precombine/preworkout mocks with Cutler going in the first.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/mock.html

The only one in that group that hasn't been update is Nflfans.com and it doesn't have Cutler in the 1st but does have Jacobs....

 

[Rats]

Do you even own a subscription to Scouts Inc? THEY had him mid first round since before the Senior Bowl. He moved into the first round about midway through the regular season.

In addition, I am actually giving a source, not just "all the mocks" ect...

No, I do not....I will take your word for it . I am sure he was on some boards shown in the 1st round. Most here did not know much about him until the Seinor Bowl and his workout there and he wasn't high up on many boards mid season or near the end. NFLfans.com site did not have him in Dec in the 1st. He was the 70th rated player on Jan 4th by the WarRoom...

 

[lobo]

a safe pick and certainly one that is very justifiable BUT don't expect great things year 1....jeff g commented earlier that an offensive line is a unit that must play as one......something like the rockettes...imagine if one woman instead of kicking with her right leg she kicks with her left leg when everyone else is kicking with the right leg...the whole unit looks bad and it takes time to get the five OL working in tandem...hey..maybe we should sign the rockettes as FA's!!!!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

So enough about Cutler, what about Justice?


Scouts Inc grades him out at a 95 and easily the second best offensive line prospect. They have Ferguson as a 98. He is ranked #13 on their board, so drafting him at 10 would not be a reach.

The big thing that stands out on him is quick feet and the ability to handle speed rushers, which are the vogue in the NFL.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I merged the two threads on this topic.

 

[BigRedFan]

I think Id be happy enough with this pick. I originally wanted to trade down if Cutler was the only player left past the top 9. But he may be close to BAP and fills a big need. As far as his off the field stuff, maybe Green would be a good match to keep him out of trouble. He did keep Randy Moss pretty much in check for a while.

 

[kerouac9]

Scouts Inc grades him out at a 95 and easily the second best offensive line prospect. They have Ferguson as a 98. He is ranked #13 on their board, so drafting him at 10 would not be a reach.

Except how he would be a reach. He'd be a reach of three spots. That's about the most counter-factual statement in the world, isn't it? He wouldn't be a big reach, but he would be a reach. Until today, Justice wasn't among the Top 10 prospects in the NFL draft. How many games has he played since then? As many as Jimmy Williams.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

That's about the most counter-factual statement in the world, isn't it?

Talk about dithering over semantics. I don't consider any prospect that rates in at a 95 a reach. It just shows how strong of a draft this is. Here is their ratings:

1. Reggie Bush 99
2. D'Brickshaw Fergueson 98
3. Matt Lienart 98
4. AJ Hawk 97
5. Mario Williams 97
6. Jay Cutler 97
7. Vince Young 96
8. Haloti Ngata 96
9. Vernon Davis 96
10. DAngelo Williams 96
11. Jimmy Williams 96
12. Chad Greenway 95
13. Winston Justice 95

It's hard to say that anyone on that list is a reach since little seperates #7-#13. So no kerouac, that is not the most "counter factual statement in the world."

 

[Evil Ash]

I read Scouts Inc daily and they have considered Cutler a first round prospect since the end of the season and before the Senior Bowl.

I said late first in my first post. My point was he wasn't top 10 until his workouts

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Oh Santonio Holmes also ranks at a 95. It will be interesting to see if his draft position lives up to that ranking. It just shows how smart Denver was to move up in the draft. A player selected at 15 should be right about as highly ranked as a guy taken at 7. Amazing draft this year.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I said late first in my first post. My point was he wasn't top 10 until his workouts

They have had him ranked in their top 15 for awhile. It is pretty amazing though that they now have him at a 97.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

One more thing Kerouac, not to completely ruin your point, but the rankings I have from Scouts Inc were put out long before today's workout for Justice.

Again I am not advocating drafting him, I am just trying to cut through all the pre-draft BS.

 

[Evil Ash]

They have had him ranked in their top 15 for awhile. It is pretty amazing though that they now have him at a 97.

Fair enough then I was mistaken when it comes to Scouts Inc. Its just like every other draft where prospects jump up as workout warriors and there is also plenty of misdirection going on.

Remember how Aaron Rodgers was a top 10 pick a week before the draft? Things can change in a hurry

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Fair enough then I was mistaken when it comes to Scouts Inc. Its just like every other draft where prospects jump up as workout warriors and there is also plenty of misdirection going on.

Remember how Aaron Rodgers was a top 10 pick a week before the draft? Things can change in a hurry

Yep. Every year someone just plummets. It is looking like it will Lendale White right now. Another guy who has a decent rating that I think will fall is Darnell Bing.

 

[earthsci]

The only one in that group that hasn't been update is Nflfans.com and it doesn't have Cutler in the 1st but does have Jacobs....

These four are pre-combine/workout mocks that have Cutler going in the top ten.
SI.com
FoxSports
Compilation Mock Draft
Yahoo Sports

 

[kerouac9]

One more thing Kerouac, not to completely ruin your point, but the rankings I have from Scouts Inc were put out long before today's workout for Justice.

Again I am not advocating drafting him, I am just trying to cut through all the pre-draft BS.

I guess that only really matters if you take Scouts, Inc. word as gospel. I like a lot of the stuff that they do, but I don't think they're as thorough as some other places. TheHuddleReport.com does in-depth analysis on nearly every prospect in the draft, and doesn't listen to scouts (who can't be trusted anyway) and they have Justice listed as the 20th overall prospect. Take a look around, and I'll bet you find that Justice averages maybe a 15 ranking on mock drafts and draft boards. That would qualify him as a pretty major reach, don't you think?

I'm just saying that taking the #13 prospect with the #10 pick is very much the definition of a reach. If you're not intellectually honest enough to cop to that, then I don't really know why we should bother having the discussion.

 

[CardsFan222]

I have 3 guys that i would take at 10

Davis, Huff, and Young

If they are not there, or somehow someone like Hawk or the Brick falls to 10

I am looking to trade down. This draft is so deep that if we can move down 3 to 5 spots and pick up another 2nd or 3rd, I am all for it

I dont like taking workout warriors like Cutler or Justice with a top 10 pick.