USC's big winner....Winston Justice

[JeffGollin]

It's hard to say that anyone on that list is a reach since little seperates #7-#13.
Faulty premise.

A draft rating number is just that - an arbitrary number a scouting service came up with so that they could rank players "as they viewed them."

What the rating number doesn't tell you includes: (a) a player's upside, (b) his downside risk, (c) his "fit" re a particular team & its system or (d) how specific teams rate him on their boards (i.e. Scouts Inc. may rate three guys a 95, but Team A might rate one guy a 96, another a 95 and the other an 88. Team B might rate all three guys just the opposite. Team C could rate all three guys really really low or really really high). Scouts Inc. and other rating services are useful in helping us determine where a particular player might generally be ranked, but their ratings aren't "end alls"/only "directional sign posts".

Therefore, stating that one guy either does or doesn't represent a "reach" only reflects only for example, what Todd McShay or Gary Horton thinks about a player - and not necessarily what Rod Graves thinks.

Personally, I think there's a value dropoff after #8 or #9. Scouts Inc. and the War Room no doubt think differently. We don't know how RG and DG view the top 15.

 

[MastersofCombat]

Len Dale drops out of first round...

 

[Chris_Sanders]

So tell me who the players are before the "talent drop off right before we pick is".

I am going to guess at least 1 of them will be there when we select.

Here is my top 12. I would be happy with any of those players at 10.

Bush
Hawk
Lienart
Fergueson
Mario Williams
Davis
Ngata
Young
Huff
Cutler
Jimmy Williams
Winston Justice

 

[JeffGollin]

So tell me who the players are before the "talent drop off right before we pick is"...Here is my top 12. I would be happy with any of those players at 10.

Bush
Hawk
Leinart
Ferguson
Mario Williams
Davis
Ngata
Young
Huff
Cutler
Jimmy Williams
Winston Justice
I don't feel feel Ngata, Williams or Justice belong in the Top Group.

As I see it, the universally accepted blue chippers consist of Bush, Ferguson, M Williams, Hawk, Davis and Huff (That's my Top 6).

Young, Cutler & Leinart comprise the next 3, and there are mixed opinions about each.

Then I see a significant dropoff between the Top 9 and Ngata, J Williams, Justice, Greenway & arguably DeA Williams and one or more of the three top wideouts (S Moss, S Holmes and Chad Jackson).

But my point is that you see it one way, I see it another way, Scouts Inc., Mayock, the Cardinals and other folks see it in various other ways.

The only opinion that counts is the Cardinals. (And after that, how these guys actually do in the NFL).

 

[duckfallas]

I've been saying Justice as an O line pick all along. Draft Justice with #10 then find a way to get Gabe Watson with the next pick.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I would be willing to bet that Huff is there when we pick. The question is do we want him.

 

[joeshmo]

I'm just saying that taking the #13 prospect with the #10 pick is very much the definition of a reach. If you're not intellectually honest enough to cop to that, then I don't really know why we should bother having the discussion.

Yes by strict definition someone ranked 13th being picked 10 is a reach. But its only 3 spots and so small that its almost trivial to even call it a reach. The guy ranked 11th is a reach to so is the 12th ranked guy if you go by strict definition of it, but we all know there is no strict definition. It isnt a reach when a player is ranked around that area, it is a reach when the player isnt even close to that area of the draft. Debating about a whole 3 spots as being a reach is about as trivial as one can get.

 

[BACH]

Are you guys serious?

Calling the 13th ranked player at #10 a reach. Please!!! So, if the Saints take Ferguson at #2, then they're reaching, because Leinart is gennerally ranked ahead of him?

A reach is when a team drafts a player from a lower bracket, while still having players from a better bracket available. The general opinion is that there are 10 players available in the best bracket in this draft. They are in no particular order: Leinart, Young, Cutler, Hawks, Ngata, Williams, Huff, Davis, Ferguson and Bush.

Justice has been ranked in the middle of the next bracket (15-25 range), but has undoubtedly moved up the board with his work-out. I don't know if it's enough to move into the first bracket, but he has definately moved to the very top of the 2nd bracket and into the 11-17 range.

BUT we also have to remember that every team has a different ranking, so the "media-created" first bracket does not have to be the first bracket on G & G's board.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

a reach is Calvin Pace and Bryant Johnson at 16 and 17,or wherever they were picked in round 1.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

not to worry, Justice is a very level headed kid. he was just joking around when he pulled a pellet gun on a fellow student who thought it was real.he was just joking when he laughingly told campus police he thought the kid was going to pee his pants he was so scared. He was just kidding when he got in trouble the first time in school too, or the time in highschool. Pete Carroll is a known hard ass, he runs a tight ship, no messing around is tolerated, his kids are all great scholars and Pete won't tolerate any monkey business.

Whoops, got stuck in sarcasm mode. Someone is going to draft Justice quite high, if it's us I just hope we get the new and improved guy and not the guy who was so immature that Countryclub Pete Carroll suspended the guy. Do people realize how hard it is to get suspended at USC? Even white didn't manage to get suspended with all his laziness and character issues, but Justice got suspended twice, once for a whole season.

Just hope he's matured if we pick him, he's talented for sure, but he was a much bigger problem in school than White was.

Elton Brown dropped over character issues and he worked out fine, Theres nothing that scares me too much about Justice, he is not a Lawrence Phillips or anything

 

[BACH]

Elton Brown dropped over character issues and he worked out fine, Theres nothing that scares me too much about Justice, he is not a Lawrence Phillips or anything

???
Didn't he quit in the middle of the both the combine and his personal work-out.

 

[joeshmo]

???
Didn't he quit in the middle of the both the combine and his personal work-out.

He left half way through the Senior Bowl from a supposed injury that no one knew about. then left the Combine early for the same reason.

He did workout at his pro day though and had a horrible day.

It was really no surprise to see him drop on draft day like he did.

 

[JeffGollin]

I guess that only really matters if you take Scouts, Inc. word as gospel. I like a lot of the stuff that they do, but I don't think they're as thorough as some other places.
Read enough of these things and you'll find the answers you want.

PFW's Guide (on sale at Barnes & Nobel) has Justice going at #29 to the Broncos.

ESPN's Magazine (also on sale at B&N) has Justice going to the Eagles at #14.

(Because both publications had to go to press fairly early, they forgot one small bit of news about the Cardinals - this dude named Edgerrin James).

 

[Rats]

I've been saying Justice as an O line pick all along. Draft Justice with #10 then find a way to get Gabe Watson with the next pick.

Justice at #10 would be a good pick but if we could trade to 14 or 15 and pick up a 3rd rd pick and get Marcus Mcneil( who compares favorably to Justice) there would not be much drop off and we could then get good depth with the extra 3rd choice. I would like to see Mcneil then R. Wright and Demeco Ryans with our first 3rd pick. We could then grab best TE( M. Lewis) or BPA with the next 3rd for depth. It would also give us added ammunition to trade up if someone falls to the bottem of the 1st rd that we like at Cb. I think for a trade down to 15 someone like Huff or VY would have to be available and if that was the case we might get a 2nd from Denver.

 

[Duckjake]

TheHuddleReport.com does in-depth analysis on nearly every prospect in the draft, and doesn't listen to scouts (who can't be trusted anyway) and they have Justice listed as the 20th overall prospect.

From a 2005 HuddleReport mock draft:

Rolle- Titans #6
EBrown-Bucs #36
Blackstock-Saints #40
Shazor-Broncos #56
LMitchell-Chargers #61
JJ Arrington-Browns #67

Nice draft Dennis.

 

[D-Dogg]

I'm on the Winston Cutler Young Huff bandwagon.

I thought Winston might be a little stretch before his workouts...not much, but a tiny bit. One I'd be happy if we made though...I thought he'd go around 15.

Now I hope he's there...the explosiveness his numbers suggest show he'll be as big of a stud in the NFL as he was in college.

 

[abomb]

I'm on the Winston Cutler Young Huff bandwagon.

No Vernon Davis?

A-Bomb

 

[Rats]

No Vernon Davis?

A-Bomb

I don't think anyone would argue if we took Vernon Davis, not with the times he posted and the games he played at Maryland, however when your needs are along the OL, DL, Secondary Davis is a bit overkill for this Offense. At 10 he would grade out as BPA but if Huff, Justice, Nagata were still on the board I would think we would weigh how much better Davis would make our Passing game and would he bring enough blocking skills to help on the OL. With a Rb that has averaged 40 catches a year we have arguably already helped our passing game. I do not want to see a team rushing for an average of 4.0 yards a carry like last season and scoring 20 plus Td on the ground against us. That will keep us out of the playoffs again and I do not think Davis helps solve that.

 

[D-Dogg]

No Vernon Davis?

A-Bomb

Crap.

Yes, he's on there too. I'm riding on an awfully large bandwagon.

Needless to say, I'm probably going to be very happy on draft day.