Utah Jazz @ Phoenix Suns 2/06

[95pro]

Practice squad the real team played against.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Practice squad the real team played against.

Thanks, I didn't know that.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Was at the game last night and the biggest thing I noticed is how smooth and flowing the Jazz play on offense. Back door cuts... Nice screens and passing. Compared to the Suns offense which seems as-hoc, make it up on the fly and pray that someone gets hot from the outside... Thanks Marcus had a career game last night, otherwise we would've lost.

There were moments when the Suns passed the ball well and created good shots. Then there moments when they stood around waiting for one of the guards to create things. The latter drives me crazy, especially when one of the PGs just dribbles the ball and then tries to create his own shot. I'm wondering if other players get caught in the web of watching. Ultimately I think the Suns might be better off in a traditional lineup with one PG and one SG with the philosophy of passing the ball to open shooters. Of course this would mean the Suns would have to trade Bledsoe or Dragic. IMO, I can't see Dragic being happy cast as a SG when FA rolls around.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There were moments when the Suns passed the ball well and created good shots. Then there moments when they stood around waiting for one of the guards to create things. The latter drives me crazy, especially when one of the PGs just dribbles the ball and then tries to create his own shot. I'm wondering if other players get caught in the web of watching. Ultimately I think the Suns might be better off in a traditional lineup with one PG and one SG with the philosophy of passing the ball to open shooters. Of course this would mean the Suns would have to trade Bledsoe or Dragic. IMO, I can't see Dragic being happy cast as a SG when FA rolls around.

I hope we trade IT for a big man that can space the court. I wouldn't be shocked to see us trade Goran instead though. But if that happens it would likely be for a true shooting guard.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I hope we trade IT for a big man that can space the court. I wouldn't be shocked to see us trade Goran instead though. But if that happens it would likely be for a true shooting guard.

Steve

Trading IT would likely be the easiest option but I can't see Dragic being happy remaining a SG. I think some team will go after Goran in FA, promise him he will be their starting PG, then he will be gone. It's not what I want but what I think will happen.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I really don't know what the problem is (or problems are) but I don't think you've nailed it. The timing doesn't work AFAIC. These guys were very much enjoying playing together a month and a half ago. I remember watching an interview with Goran I think it was a few days before Christmas when he talked about how things had improved so drastically for him and the team. He said it all changed when a group of them got together and starting getting to know each other away from the court.

In December and most of January you could just see how much happier they all were and how much better they all played. That is, until about 2 weeks ago. Goran, who had been tearing it up for awhile, suddenly reverted to his November form. It wasn't as dramatic but Markieff tailed off also right around the same time. Len dropped off too but that's understandable, having hit the rookie wall. Anyway, I think the decline started right around the Houston game. We still played well enough to beat Chicago and Washington and should have beat Memphis but we just haven't looked quite right. JMO.

Steve

I think it is a number of things

1. Len has stepped back some from how he was playing in December.
2. They have had a string of more difficult opponents.
3. I think this is the biggest one. They all know the Suns have lots of assets and the team, as presently constituted is temporary. So, there is a lot of tension and uncertainty leading up to the trade deadline. No one knows for sure who will stay and who will go. If a player cannot get enough playing time to prove his worth (at least in his mind), it can impact his outlook. That's not a coaching issue, its a roster issue.
4. The Morris brothers obviously have some off-the-court issue going on. The assault charge that seems to be family related not only impacts one player, but two. I would not be surprised if that has had an impact on the technicals and impacts locker room atmosphere.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think it is a number of things

1. Len has stepped back some from how he was playing in December.
2. They have had a string of more difficult opponents.
3. I think this is the biggest one. They all know the Suns have lots of assets and the team, as presently constituted is temporary. So, there is a lot of tension and uncertainty leading up to the trade deadline. No one knows for sure who will stay and who will go. If a player cannot get enough playing time to prove his worth (at least in his mind), it can impact his outlook. That's not a coaching issue, its a roster issue.
4. The Morris brothers obviously have some off-the-court issue going on. The assault charge that seems to be family related not only impacts one player, but two. I would not be surprised if that has had an impact on the technicals and impacts locker room atmosphere.

I think number 4 might be part of the current chemistry issues but didn't the incident take place just a couple weeks ago, well after Jeff started benching players for T's?

Number 3 probably has a lot to do with the fracturing. But I'd really like to hear what IT was thinking when he tweeted about it being time to go because the respect was gone. That could very well be the dividing line for this group.

I don't really believe that Goran has an issue playing shooting guard but he might be frustrated by the fact he can't fully show off his game because of spacing and fewer touches, IOW "proving his worth" as you mentioned. I'd look for a multi-team deal that lets us send IT and Tucker out and bring a pick and Frye back in. And then try and sign Amare if he's bought out.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think number 4 might be part of the current chemistry issues but didn't the incident take place just a couple weeks ago, well after Jeff started benching players for T's?

Number 3 probably has a lot to do with the fracturing. But I'd really like to hear what IT was thinking when he tweeted about it being time to go because the respect was gone. That could very well be the dividing line for this group.

I don't really believe that Goran has an issue playing shooting guard but he might be frustrated by the fact he can't fully show off his game because of spacing and fewer touches, IOW "proving his worth" as you mentioned. I'd look for a multi-team deal that lets us send IT and Tucker out and bring a pick and Frye back in. And then try and sign Amare if he's bought out.

Steve

The thing with the Morris twins probably did not start with that incident. Just speculating though.

IT does not seem to play with the same smile as the start of the year. But his rep is for being a chemistry killer. Wow. Sure looked like a good signing at the moment, and he plays big at some point in each game. He seems to be one of those players that makes you better, but also limits you at that level.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think number 4 might be part of the current chemistry issues but didn't the incident take place just a couple weeks ago, well after Jeff started benching players for T's?

Number 3 probably has a lot to do with the fracturing. But I'd really like to hear what IT was thinking when he tweeted about it being time to go because the respect was gone. That could very well be the dividing line for this group.

I don't really believe that Goran has an issue playing shooting guard but he might be frustrated by the fact he can't fully show off his game because of spacing and fewer touches, IOW "proving his worth" as you mentioned. I'd look for a multi-team deal that lets us send IT and Tucker out and bring a pick and Frye back in. And then try and sign Amare if he's bought out.

Steve

Frye will never play in PHX with his current contract. It's awful and Frye has certainly not lived up to it. Magic fans say he's gotten even worse defensively as well.

 

[sunsfan88]

I was a little surprised that Jeff started Plumlee at Center with Len out. As I watched them line up for the opening tip, I thought that Wright would have more success at it. And, sure enough, Plumlee lost the opening tip as he usually did when he started.

The opening tip in itself is not that important. But wasn't Wright brought in to move ahead of Plumlee in the Center succession? Why not play him for the first six minutes, then bring in Plumlee in his current role as his backup?

Especially since who finishes the halves, and at what positions, is not based upon who starts.

It just seems that, after having demoted Plumlee from starter to backup, then to third Center, it would have been toying with him less to leave him in that role. Unless moving Wright ahead of him was a total mistake.

If you were Coach, would you start Plumlee or Wright at Center until Len returns . . . and why? Or might your opinions be "what does it matter?"

I would start Wright as well. He should be our 2nd string C.

I don't think Wright will be interested in resigning here if we play him as our 3rd string center or out of position as backup PF either.

Was at the game last night and the biggest thing I noticed is how smooth and flowing the Jazz play on offense. Back door cuts... Nice screens and passing. Compared to the Suns offense which seems as-hoc, make it up on the fly and pray that someone gets hot from the outside... Thanks Marcus had a career game last night, otherwise we would've lost.

That's how it's been all year. It's too "free style" ish imo.

 

[Errntknght]

I would start Wright as well. He should be our 2nd string C.

I don't think Wright will be interested in resigning here if we play him as our 3rd string center or out of position as backup PF either.


That's how it's been all year. It's too "free style" ish imo.

Wright is officially listed as a PF and I'd be happy to have him play there and keep Marcus from backing up his brother. He's undersized at C, especially a starting C, so I'd keep Miles as the starter in Len's absence. Unless he somehow sinks to a new low.

As far as the offense is concerned, it was 'free style' last year, too. I remarked on it the first couple weeks of the season because I expected Jeff to have a reasonably full play book - and I kept expecting him to add more the whole season long.

 

[elindholm]

As far as the offense is concerned, it was 'free style' last year, too.

There was also only one PG at a time, over the first two months or so. Dragic and Bledsoe didn't start getting regular time together until after the All-Star break. A big problem now is that most of the team stands around on each possession trying to figure out who the point guard of the moment is.

 

[BC867]

A big problem now is that most of the team stands around on each possession trying to figure out who the point guard of the moment is.

Or if there is any at all.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There was also only one PG at a time, over the first two months or so. Dragic and Bledsoe didn't start getting regular time together until after the All-Star break. A big problem now is that most of the team stands around on each possession trying to figure out who the point guard of the moment is.

They played together regularly from the beginning of the season and our playing style did not change after the all star break. It changed a little bit at the start of January because of Eric's injury but mostly we just ran the offense through Dragic with Green playing a similar role to Eric's. Goran would drive and dish to Frye, Tucker or Green at the arc or Green would initiate the offense and usually just create his own shot. It wasn't quite as effective as it had been with Eric and Goran but it was quite similar. We passed the ball around the perimeter a lot more than we do this season but Frye was our only true catch and shoot player. Tucker can be a catch and shoot player from one spot on the court but even he tends to try and create his own shot from most elsewhere.

The big problem this year has been the lack of spacing. We don't have a good (true) point guard despite what the Dragic fans continue to insist. Goran did much the same thing that Eric does. When he was doing it by himself it was easy to shut down for key stretches of the game (just as it was when Eric was doing it by himself). The only time it worked was when we had two guards that could penetrate and multiple 3 point shooters at the arc. This year, without the spacing, most of the guys just resort to hero ball once the defense takes away the lane. Goran's go-to move when the lanes close is even worse than hero ball, he just stands there in the corner praying no one will pass him the ball. And they rarely do.

Steve

 

[BC867]

...and Frye back in.

'Just what the Suns need. Another Wing.

 

[AzStevenCal]

'Just what the Suns need. Another Wing.

If we keep Goran and Bledsoe (with or without IT), it absolutely is just what we need. But it's easier and probably smarter to just go back to playing with a true point guard and a real shooting guard.

Trade Goran, Green and Tucker before the break. Start using Ennis with Eric and get Goodwin and Warren some playing time. I think it's far too early to give up on Bledsoe as our starting guard but a year or so from now he'll have enough time as a starter to pretty well define what he'll be long term. Maybe he's not the answer but with his defense and the kind of numbers he puts up, we shouldn't have any trouble moving him if that's the case.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Warren and Ennis are returning from the Jam and Goodwin and Bullock are going to the Jam. Nice showing by Warren. The Suns seem to have developed a rotation plan for youngsters. This is something I like.

Paul Coro @paulcoro · 54m 54 minutes ago

In a #Suns D-League Bakersfield win Friday, Warren had 40 pts (16-27 FG, 0-4 3s) & 8 reb. Ennis had 20 pts (8-14 FG, 1-4 3s), 6 ast & 5 reb.
0 replies 6 retweets 4 favorites

Paul Coro @paulcoro · 56m 56 minutes ago

The #Suns assigned Archie Goodwin and Reggie Bullock to D-League affiliate Bakersfield while recalling T.J. Warren and Tyler Ennis.

https://twitter.com/paulcoro

 

[Absolute Zero]

Warren and Ennis are returning from the Jam and Goodwin and Bullock are going to the Jam. Nice showing by Warren. The Suns seem to have developed a rotation plan for youngsters. This is something I like.





https://twitter.com/paulcoro

I am glad to see them shuttling our young guys through the D league.

Man, Warren is just a ridiculous scorer. Not sure how he is going to get some minutes on the regular team though w/ Marcus ballin' like he was last night.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I am glad to see them shuttling our young guys through the D league.

Man, Warren is just a ridiculous scorer. Not sure how he is going to get some minutes on the regular team though w/ Marcus ballin' like he was last night.

Marcus was great last night. But prior to that he's been mostly horrible.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I am glad to see them shuttling our young guys through the D league.

Man, Warren is just a ridiculous scorer. Not sure how he is going to get some minutes on the regular team though w/ Marcus ballin' like he was last night.

Shuttling the young players through the D-League is the way to go. The sad part, all 4 players are guards or SFs. My hope is the Suns find some room in the D-league (and on their 15 man roster) for Alec Brown center/power forward should he be able to play this season. He stands 7 foot without shoes. Although he is a project, I like his long term potential.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Marcus was great last night. But prior to that he's been mostly horrible.

Steve

The problem is, he's got this symbiotic thing going with his brother. If we trade Marcus, or take his minutes away in favor of Warren, that's going to throw off Kieff. Not sure what the answer is.

 

[sunsfan88]

The problem is, he's got this symbiotic thing going with his brother. If we trade Marcus, or take his minutes away in favor of Warren, that's going to throw off Kieff. Not sure what the answer is.

Kieff was playing fine before Marcus came so why would it throw him off so much?

 

[Phrazbit]

Markieff was not fine before his brother got here, he was shooting barely over 40% from the field. And given the nature of the contracts they signed, trading Marcus away would probably feel like a betrayal to Markieff.

I'd prefer to see Marcus get benched, used situationally, if that does not sit well with Markieff then I'd put them on the block.

Markieff is a quality player, but not good enough to justify giving his sub replacement level brother 20 minutes a night.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's sort of ironic that Marcus has his best game and fans get down on him. I think Marcus is a nice option off the bench and his stats seem to support it. The problem as I see it, the Suns have too many options at SF. IMO, Marcus is well worth his salary as is Markieff. I definitely think the pair have positive trade value and that's the way they should be viewed, as a bundled package.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It's sort of ironic that Marcus has his best game and fans get down on him. I think Marcus is a nice option off the bench and his stats seem to support it. The problem as I see it, the Suns have too many options at SF. IMO, Marcus is well worth his salary as is Markieff. I definitely think the pair have positive trade value and that's the way they should be viewed, as a bundled package.

I think they have positive value also (at least combined) but Marcus has been really bad on defense this season.

Part of our problem is that IT, Green and Marcus all need the ball and each of them is better at creating their own shot than facilitating. People complain about ISO ball but it usually isn't an issue with the starters. Eric and Goran penetrate with an eye to kicking it to the open man if they can't get to the hoop. Marcus, Gerald and IT dribble (mostly) around the perimeter and then force up shots. I don't think the 3 of them should be playing together off the bench and unless Marcus is going to play nightly like he did against Utah, none of them belong in the starting lineup.

Steve