Utah Jazz @ Phoenix Suns 2/06

[Mainstreet]

I think they have positive value also (at least combined) but Marcus has been really bad on defense this season.

Part of our problem is that IT, Green and Marcus all need the ball and each of them is better at creating their own shot than facilitating. People complain about ISO ball but it usually isn't an issue with the starters. Eric and Goran penetrate with an eye to kicking it to the open man if they can't get to the hoop. Marcus, Gerald and IT dribble (mostly) around the perimeter and then force up shots. I don't think the 3 of them should be playing together off the bench and unless Marcus is going to play nightly like he did against Utah, none of them belong in the starting lineup.

Steve

I can agree about the three of them playing not playing together. The way Gerald Green has been playing of late, Marcus might be the better option. Marcus is shooting .407 from 3 point range.

 

[BC867]

It's sort of ironic that Marcus has his best game and fans get down on him.

Or to put it another way, despite one good game, the fans are still down on him.

It will take more than one good game every once in awhile to change that.

I definitely think the pair have positive trade value and that's the way they should be viewed, as a bundled package.

Unfortunately, that is how they will have to be treated. Which makes any trade scenario more complex and difficult.

The next team would have to take on the same messy situation.

And the messy technical foul situation that Markeiff has gotten both of them into.

It is just a series of negatives. Which never puts a team in a position of power when trading.

Between that and the Guard heavy roster, it is going to take the Suns years to dig their way out of it and build a balanced roster.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Or to put it another way, despite one good game, the fans are still down on him.

It will take more than one good game every once in awhile to change that.


Unfortunately, that is how they will have to be treated. Which makes any trade scenario more complex and difficult.

The next team would have to take on the same messy situation.

And the messy technical foul situation that Markeiff has gotten both of them into.

It is just a series of negatives. Which never puts a team in a position of power when trading.

Between that and the Guard heavy roster, it is going to take the Suns years to dig their way out of it and build a balanced roster.

I find this kind of comment nonsensical. You could balance this roster by the end of the offseason quite easily. Trade IT (or Goran) and let Len develop and it's not all that imbalanced anyway. Green will almost surely be gone by next season and given the big men in this draft class I'd be shocked if we didn't draft someone like Bobby Portis. Those changes alone make us a fairly balanced team.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Or to put it another way, despite one good game, the fans are still down on him.

It will take more than one good game every once in awhile to change that.


Unfortunately, that is how they will have to be treated. Which makes any trade scenario more complex and difficult.

The next team would have to take on the same messy situation.

And the messy technical foul situation that Markeiff has gotten both of them into.

It is just a series of negatives. Which never puts a team in a position of power when trading.

Between that and the Guard heavy roster, it is going to take the Suns years to dig their way out of it and build a balanced roster.

I look at it like this, the Suns extended the Morris twins to a 4 year 52 million dollar contract. The Nuggets extended Faried (who somewhat compares to Markieff in talent) to a 5 year, 60 million dollar contract. I think Markieff is the better player. It sounds to me like the Suns got a bonus player in Marcus (who has positive value) along with Markieff for nearly the same amount of money. The twins are a bargain IMO.

 

[sunsfan88]

I look at it like this, the Suns extended the Morris twins to a 4 year 52 million dollar contract. The Nuggets extended Faried (who somewhat compares to Markieff in talent) to a 5 year, 60 million dollar contract. I think Markieff is the better player. It sounds to me thank that the Suns got a bonus player in Marcus (who has positive value) along with Markieff for nearly the same amount of money. The twins are a bargain IMO.

The Nuggets are not the franchise we should try to copy. Their a team that's been in dysfunction for some time now.

Just because they overpaid, it shouldn't mean anything to us.

But I agree with your point about Kieff being a bargain. Marcus? Not so much.

 

[BC867]

I find this kind of comment nonsensical. You could balance this roster by the end of the offseason quite easily. Trade IT (or Goran) and let Len develop and it's not all that imbalanced anyway. Green will almost surely be gone by next season and given the big men in this draft class I'd be shocked if we didn't draft someone like Bobby Portis. Those changes alone make us a fairly balanced team.

Steve

And then the project will begin to build the individual players and to develop teamwork. That will take a few years to become a solid playoff contender, following our huge step from last year in that regard.

By the end of the season, Steve? Now who is being nonsensical? Really.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Nuggets are not the franchise we should try to copy. Their a team that's been in dysfunction for some time now.

Just because they overpaid, it shouldn't mean anything to us.

But I agree with your point about Kieff being a bargain. Marcus? Not so much.

To put it another way, Markieff alone is worth the money the Suns paid both twins. If the twins were traded, the receiving team would be getting a bonus player (Marcus) for the price of Markieff.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And then the project will begin to build the individual players and to develop teamwork. That will take a few years to become a solid playoff contender, following our huge step from last year in that regard.

By the end of the season, Steve? Now who is being nonsensical? Really.

I said end of offseason, not end of season. IOW, free agency and the draft in addition to possible trades. And you didn't say it will take years to become a contender. I don't disagree with that. You said it would take years to undo our guard heavy team and build a balanced roster which is the way-over-the-top negativity I was talking about earlier.

Steve

 

[BC867]

I said end of offseason, not end of season. IOW, free agency and the draft in addition to possible trades. And you didn't say it will take years to become a contender. I don't disagree with that. You said it would take years to undo our guard heavy team and build a balanced roster which is the way-over-the-top negativity I was talking about earlier.

Steve

'Sorry, you're right. You did say end of offseason.

I still don't think it makes a difference competing in the NBA. Unless the Suns clean house within the Front Office and Coaching staff, they are what they are. A team whose mentality is small ball. To take stabs at balancing the roster somewhat is not going to change that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

'Sorry, you're right. You did say end of offseason.

I still don't think it makes a difference competing in the NBA. Unless the Suns clean house within the Front Office and Coaching staff, they are what they are. A team whose mentality is small ball. To take stabs at balancing the roster somewhat is not going to change that.

I don't think that's their mentality. I believe McDonough went after the best pieces he could reasonably acquire and the roster in a year or two will look far different than it does now. In fact, I expect it to look quite a bit different at the start of next season.

Steve

 

[Chaz]

'Sorry, you're right. You did say end of offseason.

I still don't think it makes a difference competing in the NBA. Unless the Suns clean house within the Front Office and Coaching staff, they are what they are. A team whose mentality is small ball. To take stabs at balancing the roster somewhat is not going to change that.

If the mentality is small ball why draft Len which was a surprise to most outsiders? The Suns are not operating off of some preconceived expectation, you are. The Suns are still try to get the best players they can. They are too far away to to worry about having all the right pieces in the right places for a championship run.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't think that's their mentality. I believe McDonough went after the best pieces he could reasonably acquire and the roster in a year or two will look far different than it does now. In fact, I expect it to look quite a bit different at the start of next season.

Steve

Signing the best player available isn't a good move in free agency unless it's a proven All Star player, like if they could have signed Lebron or Bosh. You get the BPA in the draft, not free agency.

The Suns were serious about retaining Bledsoe and matching any offer, them caving from their 4/48 offer to 5/70 is enough evidence that they would have matched any deal he'd have gotten. So the IT signing wasn't really insurance for Bledsoe, perhaps injury wise maybe but then why draft a PG in the middle of the first round? We still had Dragic on the roster this season and all indications given by both sides since late last season was that he'd opt out after the 2014/15 season and resign a larger and longer deal with the Suns. If they signed IT as insurance for Dragic then they jumped the gun and it may have cost them Dragic by bringing in IT and altering his role even more. It wasn't until the 3 PG lineup struggled to start the year that anything was said about Dragic seriously considering going somewhere else. Signing IT proved to be a bad move for multiple reasons. PG is the deepest position in the NBA and he was a starter last year for the Kings but shouldn't start over Dragic or Bledsoe here in Phoenix. He doesn't seem happy in his role as 6th man and I doubt he'll be content with it for the next 3 years after this one. Spending around 7-8 million a season on our 3rd best PG is too much and may have cost them resigning Dragic strictly from a money standpoint. He also seems to have disrupted Bledsoe & Dragic's chemistry and how well they played together last season. We didn't need a PG in free agency, we had 2 starting caliber PG's in Goran & Eric plus Ennis coming in to fill the Ish role from last season. Even if you consider his contract a good deal he's not that good of an asset in trades because most teams have young starting quality PG's already, that's why Sacramento let him go for nothing and replaced him pretty easy. Unless we can sell high to a contender with injury problems I doubt we can get a player who is a potential starter right now for IT alone. Maybe a prospect who may or may not pan out in another couple of seasons but that's the best case I see with moving him, unless he's packed with picks or other players. Even to get a prospect we'd have to take on a bad contract to make the trade work and even out salaries, which doesn't help us.

If the Suns felt they needed to add someone in free agency since they had the cap space they should have went after Lance Stephenson, whose deal is pretty close to IT's. He would have provided good perimeter defense, fit in as either the first guard off the bench or starting at SF. He has the toughness and size to play SF or SG. He's also a good facilitator for a wing player and would have allowed Dragic & Bledsoe to each get time to play PG alone. If we decided to use him to close games like IT now then he would have made it so we're playing small ball instead of micro ball. It would have kept Dragic from playing SF during crunch time and he's also a good rebounder for a wing. I'm not sure if he's on the block still but with Kemba down I'd gladly offer IT for Stephenson. He started the season bad trying to fit in but he's gotten better and you don't hear anything about attitude problems since Charlotte has started winning more. His contract is also a year shorter than IT's but is about 1 million more a year. With Charlotte needing a PG and Stephenson being on the block the team might be able to get a future pick out of the deal.