Vance Joseph Returning As Cardinals Defensive Coordinator

[Dingding]

https://www.azcardinals.com/news/vance-joseph-returning-as-cardinals-defensive-coordinator

Looks like those last 3 games saved his job. Thoughts?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, meh. Worst D in the league.

 

[Buckybird]

Doomed to fail when you don’t acknowledge past failures!!! Once again yesterday, too many wide open receivers for EASY throws & the TE torched us again! Like a broken record.

I’m sorry but Joseph has a poor track record

 

[GatorAZ]

Einstein’s definition of insanity...

 

[sr7706]

Many of you are on board with this, don't come crying when our defense looks the same next year..

 

[Stout]

 

[TRW]

Disappointing but not surprising. Might be on a short leash next season though.

 

[Garthshort]

I thought that our defense improved by year's end. Still has a long ways to go, but seemed to be trending up. VJ is on a short leash, and has one year (at most) to show significant improvement. Naturally, better players also needed.

 

[Ronin]

I agree that he has to be on a short leash.

 

[az jam]

Key will be how much the defense improves with better players. Agree with most that he will be on a short lease (1 more year).

 

[FB94]

Keim has one more year to turn this around and will add numerous new pieces to the defense. If it doesn’t work out both VJ and Keim will be gone

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I still believe his D under performed really bad.

He should have been replaced.

 

[football karma]

Keim has one more year to turn this around and will add numerous new pieces to the defense. If it doesn’t work out both VJ and Keim will be gone

i think this is right

we all love Todd Bowles. His defense in Tampa is just as bad, with better pieces to work with

i think the D problem is 80% personnel vs scheme

the D line was Corey Peters + a 6th round pick + guys off the street

LBs were Chandler + Hicks+ the Reddick experiment + Suggs on a retirement tour + two guys in Walker and Marsh that were street guys

starting DBs were P2 + Budda + rookie in Murphy + rookie in Thompson + street FAs in Brock or Chris Jones or Kevin Peterson

5 bolded names are guys that could start on a playoff caliber defenses.... the rest though, the drop off is gigantic

i think you could have a workable defense with one or two rookies / marginal / street guys .... but not 5

if scheme could create an average D with half the starters being rookies or street free agents, Vance would be the highest paid coordinator in the league

 

[Harry]

I keep coming back to a simple issue. The Cards lost and were hurt in several games because of the opposing TE. Joseph tried everyone he had for coverage. When your defensive roster has no one who can cover a TE; you have losing personnel. Now add in the failed Suggs experiment, trying to salvage Reddick, losing Philon and losing both starting CBs and a late arriving rookie safety and the failures are understandable. That doesn’t make them good, but says this roster wasn’t a fair test. We also don’t know how must Joseph helped KK adjust to his new Rolex’s an NFL head coach. The Cards came down on the side of continuity. If SK can provide even decent personnel improvement, then we’ll see what Joseph can do. The players are on his side. It’s a good sign that he’s gotten buy in.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

i think this is right

we all love Todd Bowles. His defense in Tampa is just as bad, with better pieces to work with

i think the D problem is 80% personnel vs scheme

the D line was Corey Peters + a 6th round pick + guys off the street

LBs were Chandler + Hicks+ the Reddick experiment + Suggs on a retirement tour + two guys in Walker and Marsh that were street guys

starting DBs were P2 + Budda + rookie in Murphy + rookie in Thompson + street FAs in Brock or Chris Jones or Kevin Peterson

5 bolded names are guys that could start on a playoff caliber defenses.... the rest though, the drop off is gigantic

i think you could have a workable defense with one or two rookies / marginal / street guys .... but not 5

if scheme could create an average D with half the starters being rookies or street free agents, Vance would be the highest paid coordinator in the league

Bowles took over the worse defense in the league last year (ranked 32) and finished the season ranked 5.

VJ took the 18th ranked defense and ended up 23rd.

 

[NYCARDS]

I’m not here to give praise to VJ but the D has improved
last few games and the personnel has not so I give him credit there. We liked Bettcher last year and he did nothing to improve the Giants D. Sometimes the blame resides with the players. PP was a big sore spot this year. From PED suspension to lack of effort. That’s on PP, not VJ

 

[ReasonableMan]

Not excited about it but maybe a little continuity is warranted here. In 4 years we’ve had 4 different DCs and went from the 3-4 to the 4-3 back to the 3-4.

 

[blindseyed]

Not excited about it but maybe a little continuity is warranted here. In 4 years we’ve had 4 different DCs and went from the 3-4 to the 4-3 back to the 3-4.

This is where I'm at, the D did seem to improve Abit at the end there and, as you stated, 4 DCs in 4yrs is rough so another off-season and year to get some consistently is what has to be done whether we like VJ or not I suppose

 

[b8rtm8nn]

The players are happy that he's returning, so that is positive to me.

 

[Dr. Jones]

For coach to say this it must mean that two things are true.

1. Kliff is coming back <-- We know this was going to happen.
2. Keim must have been assured that he is coming back as well. <-- Will make many people very sad.

Why do I think this? How could K2 be so confident about this if there is even the hint of a regime change in the building. MB had to have made these things known at Cards HQ for K2 to have been so matter of fact about it.

 

[Totally_Red]

Not excited about it but maybe a little continuity is warranted here. In 4 years we’ve had 4 different DCs and went from the 3-4 to the 4-3 back to the 3-4.

Agree! I don't see the second coming of Todd Bowles, but with all the injuries and playing of young players he deserves a second year to put his stamp on the defense.

 

[Card'em]

Agree with Harry. Given the defensive personnel deficiencies, it's almost impossible to assess the defensive coordinator's performance. This team was lacking players at every level of the defense...the line, linebackers, and secondary were all short some pieces, which makes running a defense pretty tough.

I thought Joseph got the most out of his players, and they clearly played hard for him. He just didn't have the horses. I also have to believe that players respect him for getting rid of players or sitting players with bad attitudes or subpar performance, which he did.

Give him an inside linebacker, outside linebacker, and a defensive end next season, and let's see how he does. The secondary may have enough pieces with Alford's return and a the hopeful improvement from second year players.

 

[Veer]

How can you fault VJ much for the bad players we rely on as starters? Our DL is lead by an aging Peters who is about average, and the rest are below average rotational DL at best. Chandler Jones and Hicks are great LBs, but the other two LB spots are clearly among the worst in the League. Our secondary was without PP too long, and then PP wasn't in shape and/or motivated upon returning. Murphy a typical rookie thrown into fire, same as Thompson. Although both should have learned a lot and be more solid next season. Budda playing with fire.

If VJ is dealt better cards, I will judge him. Improvement in the last month or so gives me hope. We really need a difference maker on DL badly, another pass rusher who can get home once in a while, and a 2nd ILB who has a clue.

 

[slanidrac16]

The defense should have been a top 5 defense with all this talent...:-(

 

[football karma]

Bowles took over the worse defense in the league last year (ranked 32) and finished the season ranked 5.

29th in points allowed in 2019, 31st last year