Vick Struggling

[Stout]

Falcons | Vick not understanding team's offense
Wed, 8 Feb 2006 20:39:52 -0800

Steve Wyche, of the Atlanta Journal Constitution, reports Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick admitted he is "lost" about the team's offensive philosophy and wonders why the passing game doesn't use more short, slant patterns. Vick said, "We're not dinking and dunking the way it's supposed to be done. It may be hurting me. It may be hurting the offense. I'm a little lost right now."




Wow, what a shocker. A RB with a big arm and nothing else playing QB and he's struggling? Wow!

 

[blindseyed]

Falcons | Vick not understanding team's offense
Wed, 8 Feb 2006 20:39:52 -0800

Steve Wyche, of the Atlanta Journal Constitution, reports Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick admitted he is "lost" about the team's offensive philosophy and wonders why the passing game doesn't use more short, slant patterns. Vick said, "We're not dinking and dunking the way it's supposed to be done. It may be hurting me. It may be hurting the offense. I'm a little lost right now."


Wow, what a shocker. A RB with a big arm and nothing else playing QB and he's struggling? Wow!

He's just learning of this now?? The rest of the NFL and the fans have known it for a loooong time

 

[SuperSpck]

I wonder if the hype machine that is the standard NFL analyst finally stop promoting Mike Vick as "the most dangerous player in the game". 'Cause in my opinion that has belonged to Tomlinson for quite a while... I mean didn't he himself throw for almost as many touchdowns last year? (jk)

 

[Ryanwb]

This still doesn't change Kerouac9's man love for the guy

 

[AzWins23]

Vick sucks!!

 

[AzWins23]

Falcons | Vick not understanding team's offense
Wed, 8 Feb 2006 20:39:52 -0800

Steve Wyche, of the Atlanta Journal Constitution, reports Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick admitted he is "lost" about the team's offensive philosophy and wonders why the passing game doesn't use more short, slant patterns. Vick said, "We're not dinking and dunking the way it's supposed to be done. It may be hurting me. It may be hurting the offense. I'm a little lost right now."




Wow, what a shocker. A RB with a big arm and nothing else playing QB and he's struggling? Wow!

It just proves that he's not a quarterback. He just admitted that he can't throw the long ball...What a overrated runningback...i mean quarterback

 

[Stout]

Well, I made a prediction before he was selected, a prediciton I thought had failed to coalesce. I said Brees would be a better QB than Vick. Man, I've been proven correct!

 

[Duckjake]

You guys missed the point completely. Atlanta is not using Vick correctly. Like a national sports talk host said recently that if you want a pocket passer draft one. Don't take a guy like Vick and try to make him something he's not.

Which is what Atlanta is trying to do and what Vick is referring to in his comments.

Falcons just need to look at what Denver has done with Plummer for an example of how making adjustments to your offense to better suit your QB's skills works.

 

[BigDavis75]

Well, I made a prediction before he was selected, a prediciton I thought had failed to coalesce. I said Brees would be a better QB than Vick. Man, I've been proven correct!

Brees is the better passer but Vick is the better player. He adds so much to the running game and I would take him over Brees any day.

 

[kerouac9]

Well, I made a prediction before he was selected, a prediciton I thought had failed to coalesce. I said Brees would be a better QB than Vick. Man, I've been proven correct!

Except for all the ways that you haven't been correct.

Playoff Appearances: Brees = 1, Vick = 2
Playoff Victories: Brees = 0, Vick = 2
Conference Championship Visits: Brees = 0, Vick = 1
Times team has held #1 overall draft pick after a season as starter: Brees = 1, Vick = 0.

At least Drew is leading Vick in one category. I'm not even going to bother posting the w/l record as starter. But don't let the facts get in the way of you hating on the most dynamic playmaker in the NFL.

 

[Stout]

Except for all the ways that you haven't been correct.

Playoff Appearances: Brees = 1, Vick = 2
Playoff Victories: Brees = 0, Vick = 2
Conference Championship Visits: Brees = 0, Vick = 1
Times team has held #1 overall draft pick after a season as starter: Brees = 1, Vick = 0.

At least Drew is leading Vick in one category. I'm not even going to bother posting the w/l record as starter. But don't let the facts get in the way of you hating on the most dynamic playmaker in the NFL.

*Sigh* Right. Okay, I'm 'hating'. For years, I believed I was wrong. Vick can make things happen. No doubt about that. Brees struggled. No doubt about that. But whereas Vick has become a terrible QUARTERBACK (not terrible at impacting a game), Brees has become a competent and solid starting QUARTERBACK. QUARTERBACK being the operative term. I'm sorry, but Vick REEKS at the position. He can run, but one--that will shorten his career, and two--he lacks the decision-making capabilities and the maturity to be a solid QUARTERBACK. Can he develop them? Maybe, but he is WAY behind the learning curve if he does. Yeah, Vick's done more in the past as far as the playoffs, but to pick one you'd think can win a Super Bowl out of the two, and you'd be crazy to pick Vick over Brees. My money would be with Brees.

And also, I like how you dodged the little post I made about the defensive corollary to the Falcon win/loss ratio. Putting it all on Vick is just plain simplistic.

Edit: Apologies...my comments on the defense of the Falcons came in this threat: http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?p=921209#post921209

Me getting away from myself there

 

[BigDavis75]

*Sigh* Right. Okay, I'm 'hating'. For years, I believed I was wrong. Vick can make things happen. No doubt about that. Brees struggled. No doubt about that. But whereas Vick has become a terrible QUARTERBACK (not terrible at impacting a game), Brees has become a competent and solid starting QUARTERBACK. QUARTERBACK being the operative term. I'm sorry, but Vick REEKS at the position. He can run, but one--that will shorten his career, and two--he lacks the decision-making capabilities and the maturity to be a solid QUARTERBACK. Can he develop them? Maybe, but he is WAY behind the learning curve if he does. Yeah, Vick's done more in the past as far as the playoffs, but to pick one you'd think can win a Super Bowl out of the two, and you'd be crazy to pick Vick over Brees. My money would be with Brees.

And also, I like how you dodged the little post I made about the defensive corollary to the Falcon win/loss ratio. Putting it all on Vick is just plain simplistic.

Edit: Apologies...my comments on the defense of the Falcons came in this threat: http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?p=921209#post921209

Me getting away from myself there

Obviously I would say Vick because he has proven himself in the playoffs and is a proven winner. Why would Brees be better? Is it just because he fills that white-guy precision passer mold?

 

[FlagstaffDave]

When Michael Vick is on he can change and win a game completely on his own. Brees can't do that.

Brees is becoming a fine QB and the Chargers were smart to draft both a QB and RB and pass on Vick in 2001. However when all is said and done I feel Vick will have a better career and probably a Super Bowl Championship or two. I'm not so sure I feel that way about Brees, even with LT on his side.

 

[Shane]

Obviously I would say Vick because he has proven himself in the playoffs and is a proven winner. Why would Brees be better? Is it just because he fills that white-guy precision passer mold?

QB stats would be a good start. Such as # of TDs thrown, Yards, completion %, Passer rating, INTs. All categories Brees is by far better in. Vick is the better athlete. He is in no way a better QB. Being a QB is still about being a field general and throwing the ball. Something Brees is much more adept at than Vick regardless of his TEAMS PLAYOFF SUCCESS.

 

[Stout]

Obviously I would say Vick because he has proven himself in the playoffs and is a proven winner. Why would Brees be better? Is it just because he fills that white-guy precision passer mold?

You have a complete and utter lack of shame, propriety, and sense of common decency. Label me a racist and I refuse to hold a discussion with you. Retract that immediately.

 

[Stout]

QB stats would be a good start. Such as # of TDs thrown, Yards, completion %, Passer rating, INTs. All categories Brees is by far better in. Vick is the better athlete. He is in no way a better QB. Being a QB is still about being a field general and throwing the ball. Something Brees is much more adept at than Vick regardless of his TEAMS PLAYOFF SUCCESS.

Well said, Shane.

 

[spanky1]

I know of more than one scout who has told me that Vick's a) early success will be hard to replicate 'going forward" b) defenses have figured out his QB style and Atlanta's game plan with him c) as has been noted, he isn't the "sharpest knife in the drawer" and reverts to a run first when he gets confused d) Mora is losing patience with him.

 

[Shane]

Ok Just for fun lets lay it out. This is pretty damning as to who is the better QB overall IMO. Who puts up more offensive #s for their team etc....

Pass Yards:

Brees: 12,348
Vick: 9,031

AVG:

Brees: 6.83
Vick: 6.75

TD Passes:

Brees: 80
Vick: 51

INT's:

Vick 39
Brees 53

Vick has less overall but if you count their average per attempt they both average an INT every 34 pass attempts so they are dead even.

Overall QB rating:

Brees: 84
Vick: 75

Ok I will even throw in Rushing stats to help Vicks case even though it doesnt work.

Vick: 2820
Brees: 366

Rushing TD's

Vick: 19
Brees: 4

Fumbles Lost total:

Vick: 24
Brees: 10

TDs recieving:

Brees: 1
Vick: 0

OK so if you add all of vicks offensive #s including rushing he totals 11,850 yards and 70 TD's as well 63 total turnovers.

Brees combined easily is better in total #s yet again with 12,714 yards and 85 TD's he has a combined total of 63 turnovers as well.

According to Kerouac the # one thing in his opinion that matters on the football field is TD production. He has said it many many times. Well Brees has produced 15 more TDs total than vick over their careers. Vick is clearly the better runner but even with that aspect in his game he doesnt lead his team to as much offensive production as Brees. Last I checked the bottom line for a QB is moving the chains for his team and scoring. Anyone that would take Vick over Brees is just brainwashed by the "hes so electrifying" statements that we have had pounded into our heads over the last 5 years. Even though they both average an INT evert 34 attempts you will notice that Vick hurts his team more with the fumbles. He has 14 more lost fumbles over their short careers.

 

[Stout]

Ouch. Vick + good defense = playoffs. Good QB + good QB = Super Bowl. Put Brees on the teams that Vick took to the playoffs, and they very well may have won the Super Bowl.

 

[Shane]

Ouch. Vick + good defense = playoffs. Good QB + good QB = Super Bowl. Put Brees on the teams that Vick took to the playoffs, and they very well may have won the Super Bowl.

The results on the field are pretty obvious. I cant wait for Kerouac to defend Vick. Of BigDavis75 to come on here and say that those stats are due to a black/white issue.

 

[red desert]

Ouch. Vick + good defense = playoffs. Good QB + good QB = Super Bowl. Put Brees on the teams that Vick took to the playoffs, and they very well may have won the Super Bowl.

Or put Vick with LT and Gates and the above-mentioned stats might be different. I don't know. Personally, I'm a Chargers and Brees fans.

 

[Shane]

Or put Vick with LT and Gates and the above-mentioned stats might be different. I don't know. Personally, I'm a Chargers and Brees fans.

Extremely doubtful. Atlanta doesnt have stiffs at TE or RB. Their running game is very good and Crumpler is a PBer. He would be a gates IMO if he had a QB that could get him the ball more.

 

[red desert]

Extremel doubtful. Atlanta doesnt have stiffs at TE or RB. Their running game is very good and Crumpler is a PBer. He would be a gates IMO if he had a QB that could get him the ball more.

I hear what you're saying.

 

[Matt L]

i think that there is a pretty big difference between LT and warrick dunn.

 

[Shane]

i think that there is a pretty big difference between LT and warrick dunn.

Of course there is. But overall Atlantas running game is nothing to snivel at.