Video: Kyler Murray can’t see the middle of the field.

[Stout]

Much different than saying he can't see the middle of the field.

Perhaps he can see the middle of the field but can't make the proper reads? Either way, he has a problem in that area. Let's call it room for development.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Perhaps he can see the middle of the field but can't make the proper reads? Either way, he has a problem in that area. Let's call it room for development.

The problem is...I can see his head go towards the reads, so I think he sees them.

I think he is 1) arrogant...and sometimes...2)gun shy.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I think he is lamenting Kliff's lack of coaching, which is brought up in the video as a large reason for these issues.

Interesting. Didn't think of it that way...

Sorry, I'm late to this....... @Chris_Sanders was dead on.

 

[football karma]

tough problems tend to be caused by several things rather than "one thing". Problems caused by "one thing" tend to get fixed quickly.

what are the several things here for Kyler?

1. His physical skills have always made up for lack of going through progressions / footwork / etc.-- and lets face it, through 11 games last season he was justified in thinking that way. We will see if being humbled changes that.

2. The offensive line's play over the back half of the season wasn't good -- running or pass pro. Hard to stay in the pocket when the o-line is giving up quick, internal pressures.

3. That running game: the vid notes how two-high, off coverage eliminates those easy "alert" throws down the sideline. When the d lines up that way, you need to be able to run, and the Cards couldn't. That puts you in lots of predictable situations.

4. DHop being out hurt more than realized, especially for Kyler as Hop made pre snap reads far easier.

5. Kliff needs to be better too. While nearly everyone in the NFL runs their same concepts all year long, he has talked about better disguise pre-snap.

 

[Shane]

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This made me laugh too hard lol

 

[K1Day1]

This thread is a joke right?
Would rather have Murray who some talking head says: ( can't see over the middle of the field ) rather than someone like perhaps Sam Darnold ( who can see over the middle of the field, but apparently sees ghost or dead people or whatever he said he was seeing SMH ).
Some people on this board need to just learn to let thing go...
If you look at the QB's that Murray has played better than or held his own against ( Allen, Stafford. Rodgers, Jones, Cousins ect..... ) Then this subject just sounds like something to just complain about GEEZ...

 

[Stout]

This thread is a joke right?
Would rather have Murray who some talking head says: ( can't see over the middle of the field ) rather than someone like perhaps Sam Darnold ( who can see over the middle of the field, but apparently sees ghost or dead people or whatever he said he was seeing SMH ).
Some people on this board need to just learn to let thing go...
If you look at the QB's that Murray has played better than or held his own against ( Allen, Stafford. Rodgers, Jones, Cousins ect..... ) Then this subject just sounds like something to just complain about GEEZ...

So there's no middle ground between him and Darnold? Hmm

I'm messing with you on that one, because you qualified that argument. You then did go on to argue against yourself, though, when you said it's just something to complain about, because you clearly highlighted KM's biggest problem: consistency. He has at times played better than those players, yet he has at times been outplayed by the likes of Jared freaking Goff. Why? He's inconsistent. He doesn't take the throws over the middle, often, when they're there. He doesn't often stay in clean pockets, etc. He must be able to do those things to be consistently good, or great. Let's hope he gets there.

 

[K1Day1]

So there's no middle ground between him and Darnold? Hmm

I'm messing with you on that one, because you qualified that argument. You then did go on to argue against yourself, though, when you said it's just something to complain about, because you clearly highlighted KM's biggest problem: consistency. He has at times played better than those players, yet he has at times been outplayed by the likes of Jared freaking Goff. Why? He's inconsistent. He doesn't take the throws over the middle, often, when they're there. He doesn't often stay in clean pockets, etc. He must be able to do those things to be consistently good, or great. Let's hope he gets there.

Not sure I understand your point or even how I argued against myself.
Neither you, I or anyone else on this board knows what recievers are listed as 1st, 2nd or 3rd reads on any given play that the Cards run. As far as consistency goes ( though I like the guy as the head coach ) a lot of people on this board have made valid arguments that Kliff Kingsbury is the most consistent person in the franchise ( Being that his teams 2nd half meltdowns is a staple of his coaching career ). Even though I am a fan of Kingsbury ( Right now at least ) there have been times when I like everyone else wondered what Kingsbury was thinking when he called a certain play.
But for someone to try and state matter of factly what Murray or any or QB ( or even person ) can or can't see is suspect at best and simply trying to get attention at worst. I would much rather believe Darnold who stated; " He was seeing ghost " rather than listen to anyone tell me what another person is seeing or not seeing.

 

[Stout]

Not sure I understand your point or even how I argued against myself.
Neither you, I or anyone else on this board knows what recievers are listed as 1st, 2nd or 3rd reads on any given play that the Cards run. As far as consistency goes ( though I like the guy as the head coach ) a lot of people on this board have made valid arguments that Kliff Kingsbury is the most consistent person in the franchise ( Being that his teams 2nd half meltdowns is a staple of his coaching career ). Even though I am a fan of Kingsbury ( Right now at least ) there have been times when I like everyone else wondered what Kingsbury was thinking when he called a certain play.
But for someone to try and state matter of factly what Murray or any or QB ( or even person ) can or can't see is suspect at best and simply trying to get attention at worst. I would much rather believe Darnold who stated; " He was seeing ghost " rather than listen to anyone tell me what another person is seeing or not seeing.

In saying "QB's that Murray has played better than or held his own against ( Allen, Stafford. Rodgers, Jones, Cousins ect..... )" you were obviously not saying he was better than those QBs, but rather has outplayed them at times. Well, at times he was terrible, especially when being outplayed by Jared Goff. He is inconsistent, and we can see why. Thus it is quite clearly not an argument over nothing. However you want to slice it, KM must become more consistent.

 

[BritCard]

The video basically says this.

Kyler is ridiculously good at some things. Top of the league good. But inconsistent or poor with some other things. Some of which are fundamental.

This leads to peaks and troughs of play, rather than consistency, and good defenses (like the Rams) figure this out and take away everything he is good at (generally).

On top of this Kliff doesn't help because Kyler still has some issues he had 2 years ago (poor coaching) and his scheme doesn't always help.

I don't think that's an unfair assessment. It's something many here have been saying for some time. The over the middle thing is just a distraction from the rest.

 

[Stout]

The video basically says this.

Kyler is ridiculously good at some things. Top of the league good. But inconsistent or poor with some other things. Some of which are fundamental.

This leads to peaks and troughs of play, rather than consistency, and good defenses (like the Rams) figure this out and take away everything he is good at (generally).

On top of this Kliff doesn't help because Kyler still has some issues he had 2 years ago (poor coaching) and his scheme doesn't always help.

I don't think that's an unfair assessment. It's something many here have been saying for some time. The over the middle thing is just a distraction from the rest.

I'd say that's spot on as far as assessing KM.

 

[DaHilg]

I'd say that's spot on as far as assessing KM.

I’d concur

 

[TRW]

I'd say that's spot on as far as assessing KM.

Pretty much.

 

[Stout]

I’d concur

Accord!

 

[football karma]

The video basically says this.

Kyler is ridiculously good at some things. Top of the league good. But inconsistent or poor with some other things. Some of which are fundamental.

This leads to peaks and troughs of play, rather than consistency, and good defenses (like the Rams) figure this out and take away everything he is good at (generally).

On top of this Kliff doesn't help because Kyler still has some issues he had 2 years ago (poor coaching) and his scheme doesn't always help.

I don't think that's an unfair assessment. It's something many here have been saying for some time. The over the middle thing is just a distraction from the rest.

i agree and suspect this: because he has been ridiculously good at enough things, he hasn't bought fully into getting better at the other things.

through week 11 last year, there wasn't much to tell him he was wrong in that approach

maybe the playoff game will change that

I also wonder if the Kliff contract extension was in part a message to Kyler

 

[football karma]

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a decent spot for this: not the middle, but this is the playoff game and when protected, Kyler shows good mechanics , patience and makes a great throw. Unfortunately, AJ Green doesnt hold on to the ball and that play is ultimately ruled an incompletion.

also FWIW: i believe the next play is the infamous pick six

 

[kerouac9]

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a decent spot for this: not the middle, but this is the playoff game and when protected, Kyler shows good mechanics , patience and makes a great throw. Unfortunately, AJ Green doesnt hold on to the ball and that play is ultimately ruled an incompletion.

also FWIW: i believe the next play is the infamous pick six

Zach Ertz is wide open and, for a "great throw" where he "held the safety", A.J. Green was immediately tackled right in his midsection.

This actually highlights the problems with Kyler going for the killshot or the dump-off so often.

 

[football karma]

Zach Ertz is wide open and, for a "great throw" where he "held the safety", A.J. Green was immediately tackled right in his midsection.

This actually highlights the problems with Kyler going for the killshot or the dump-off so often.

I disagree

those kinda throws between zones are nearly always tight -- throwing to the receiver that takes you from your own 1 to 1st and 10 at the 25 is the right choice.

Ertz would have caught the ball at the 3 with two zone defenders bracketing him. It would have been 3rd and 4

 

[kerouac9]

I disagree

those kinda throws between zones are nearly always tight -- throwing to the receiver that takes you from your own 1 to 1st and 10 at the 25 is the right choice.

Ertz would have caught the ball at the 3 with two zone defenders bracketing him. It would have been 3rd and 4

Well, how did it work out? At that point in the game we were down 14-0 and had FOUR THREE-AND-OUTs.

If you're in 3rd and 4 you're in a plus position to get your first new set of downs of the game halfway through the second quarter. Instead, you lay out your top receiver and you're in 3rd and 7 on the goal line.

Sometimes you have to just advance the ball and get to the next set of downs.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Well, how did it work out? At that point in the game we were down 14-0 and had FOUR THREE-AND-OUTs.

If you're in 3rd and 4 you're in a plus position to get your first new set of downs of the game halfway through the second quarter. Instead, you lay out your top receiver and you're in 3rd and 7 on the goal line.

Sometimes you have to just advance the ball and get to the next set of downs.

Weird time to be looking at hindsight, lol

That was a good throw that AJ should have held onto.

 

[SoonerLou]

I disagree

those kinda throws between zones are nearly always tight -- throwing to the receiver that takes you from your own 1 to 1st and 10 at the 25 is the right choice.

Ertz would have caught the ball at the 3 with two zone defenders bracketing him. It would have been 3rd and 4

Im not 100% convinced he even gets that. The guy playing Ertz is following Kyler's eyes. If Kyler looks at Ertz he maybe gets back to the LOS.

For a game with no big plays on offense there was nothing wrong with that one. If anything you could argue with the safety on that hash you might have been better off targeting Wesley. The problem with that is throwing to Wesley against Ramsey.

Well, how did it work out? At that point in the game we were down 14-0 and had FOUR THREE-AND-OUTs.

If you're in 3rd and 4 you're in a plus position to get your first new set of downs of the game halfway through the second quarter. Instead, you lay out your top receiver and you're in 3rd and 7 on the goal line.

Sometimes you have to just advance the ball and get to the next set of downs.

You point is solid, but this wasnt the play for that. Thats not Chase out of the backfield that is capable of making someone miss.

 

[football karma]

Well, how did it work out? At that point in the game we were down 14-0 and had FOUR THREE-AND-OUTs.

that kinda says "stay out of 3rd down if you can".

and if the play is a check down to Ertz because you cant trust your WR to hold onto the ball on a semi-contested catch, then your offense is done

 

[kerouac9]

that kinda says "stay out of 3rd down if you can".

and if the play is a check down to Ertz because you cant trust your WR to hold onto the ball on a semi-contested catch, then your offense is done

It's a checkdown to Ertz because you don't want to lead your 33 year old WR directly into an oncoming safety and create a convertible 3rd down opportunity — which is exactly what happened. It's a great play if Green makes the catch and holds on to it after getting absolutely drilled.

He doesn't catch it, and then the game is essentially over.

 

[football karma]

from PFF - ranking best deep ball QBs

in other threads on the team, one question is "what is the team's identity?"

maybe you build around this: a new version of the Al Davis Raiders. Maybe the Hollywood Brown trade means they are.

probably means you need a better o line to do this, but it would be something

1. KYLER MURRAY, ARIZONA CARDINALS​

2021 Passing Grade: 99.3 | 2021 Yards per Attempt: 15.8 | 2021 Passer Rating: 117.2​

Murray ranked top-10 in completion percentage, yards per attempt, passer rating and yards on passes thrown 20 or more yards downfield, notably leading starting quarterbacks in PFF grade on those throws.

According to PFF's ball-location data, the Oklahoma product also threw 48.5% of his deep attempts in the perfect spot for a receiver. He was the only quarterback to breach the 45.0% mark.

 

[Chopper0080]

Zach Ertz is wide open and, for a "great throw" where he "held the safety", A.J. Green was immediately tackled right in his midsection.

This actually highlights the problems with Kyler going for the killshot or the dump-off so often.

To me this comes down more to an inaccurate pass. The place to put that pass is on the back-shoulder which takes the WR away from the S. Instead throws the ball up the sideline which creates the opportunity for the S to get a solid hit on the WR. Yes, Green should have held onto the ball but the S can't make a play if Kyler puts it in the correct spot.