Vikings 21 Cardinals 14 Post Game Thoughts

[az1965]

Why because he's averaging more picks in his career per game than Jamarcus Russell? I think that's an incredible stat...Bones is a turnover machine anyway you paint the canvas! Terrible accuracy. What's else you need to know? IMO those are the 2 most important stats is judging an NFL QB.

Nope... the most important stat is W-L

Skelton is 8-5.

 

[az1965]

His play on the field speaks for itself..His atrociousness in TC speaks volumes too.

I remember he made several good plays as well. Some really good strikes thrown with pressure. Put together some good drives.

 

[Jetstream Green]

We should have went deep a couple of times because it is a fact that Skelton is severely lacking in accuracy. Accuracy is defined by consistently putting the ball in a good spot and not making a great throw proceeded by a series of off target throws. I have said it before and have heard other people say it, accuracy just does not get much better for a QB once they enter the NFL unless the inaccuracy was due to not knowing the offense. Skelton knows the offense, but he is inaccurate and always will be in my opinion. If your QB is inaccurate, do not tempt faith and attempt a long drive because the guy will eventually screw up. Skelton does have a strong arm and we have Fitz and Floyd, we should be taking some shots in the endzone over trying sustained drives under Skelton.

 

[Snakester]

Skelton looked a little rusty for sure but he didn't play as bad as some think. For his first game back I give him a mulligan. Let's see how he looks three games from now. One thing is for sure Batiste should be let go today. He is a waste of a roster spot.

 

[Russ Smith]

I remember he made several good plays as well. Some really good strikes thrown with pressure. Put together some good drives.

We had 2 drives in the game and one ended with him holding the ball too long getting hit from behind and fumbling.

 

[kerouac9]

Because this offensive lacks a vertical dimension (because, as Russ points out, of the offensive line), and because the running game lacks a true break-away presence, this offense is going to struggle to created big plays. They can hope to take advantage of "busted" plays by the defense, but that's less likely to happen when the Ds are happy to drop seven into coverage, confident that they can get a good pass rush with four.

 

[Chopper0080]

Nope... the most important stat is W-L

Skelton is 8-5.

This was the arguement for Vince Young as well. Skelton is terrible, has been terrible and probably will always be terrible. Quit holding onto that ledge and just let go. He stays on this team until his contract runs out and then probably moves to another team as a backup.

 

[Russ Smith]

Because this offensive lacks a vertical dimension (because, as Russ points out, of the offensive line), and because the running game lacks a true break-away presence, this offense is going to struggle to created big plays. They can hope to take advantage of "busted" plays by the defense, but that's less likely to happen when the Ds are happy to drop seven into coverage, confident that they can get a good pass rush with four.

Agreed when people come into the box against us they're not blitzing they're either defending the run or maybe run blitzing. You don't have to run blitz against us.

Again look at the play where Housler runs left to chip Allen before running his pattern. Batiste knows it's coming so smart thing is to make sure he protects INSIDE so what's he do, Allen spins inside beats Batiste and goes and hits Skelton. there is nothing coaching can do if your LT can't keep his man out when he has help and only has to worry about one side. Housler barely even got a piece of allen because he beat Batiste so quickly.

 

[john h]

The offensive coaches are now very intent on forcing a running game, and thanks to some solid blocking and some nifty, slippery, gutsy running by Hyphen, they showed real progress...as they did with Powell last week.

Yet both weeks resulted in losses. How come?

For one, a lot of missed opportunities and costly mistakes.

For two, because right now the odds of a ball control offense working and leading to wins with this particular offensive personnel are extremely low...and I mean extremely low. The reason is that ball control offense leads you into a lot of 3rd a 5's or 3's...which then puts a great deal of pressure on the QB to execute in clutch fashion under duress. It also forces the offense to try to complete 5 to 7 yard passes while the DL is pinning its ears back and going full-tilt after the QB.

If the QB is a savvy veteran, then this might work...but neither KK or JS are savvy veterans---

For three, when you try to mount long ball control drives, you are one costly sack, turnover or penalty away from a stalled drive.

For this personnel...it is inevitable that a costly sack, turnover or penalty will occur.

For four, and perhaps most importantly, when you do not threaten the defense deep, you get what we saw today, a playmaker like CB Antoine Winfield feeling at ease to play up in the box all game long...so close to the box in fact that he was in the backfield on run blitzes numerous times...and he was the one to sniff out the absurd 4th and 2 flat pass call to Reagan Ma'uia, turned QB scramble/ramble for naught. It goes to show you that even in such a key situation the Viking defensive coaches felt they didn't even have to put Winfield on Fitzgerald.

With the defense being as good as they are---the philosophy of the Cardinals' offense should be the reverse---stretch the field and go for the big plays.

Now sure you will say, but there's no time.

Actually there is time---and there was time on a number of occasions today.

The only time Skelton threw deep in the game was on a free play.

But, actually deep shots have to be thrown early enough so that you don't under-throw them.

What deep shots do is they loosen the intermediate zones for TEs like Housler, who played well again today, and who also is a deep threat himself.

What the Cardinals are doing by running on early downs and playing dink and dunk on 3rd downs is allowing the defense to play them tight---there's no looseness at all.

That Viking secondary is not that good at all---but the Cardinals' offensive coaches helped make them look good by allowing them to play up and not on their heels.

On defense---we have some special coaching going on. After a lackluster effort in the first half to stop an intensely fired-up AP, Horton started run blitzing and tightening the running lanes in the second half. He dared Ponder to throw the ball---and played sticky coverage.

Horton learned some things today---and he in all likelihood will have the defense better prepared to stop Frank Gore---too bad it took two TDs in the first half in this game because, tis was a game where 17 points could have won the ballgame.

The other thing Horton has to start insisting from his CBs is that instead of arm barring the WRs like they do every time their man goes deep, instead that's the time to look back for the ball.

Been saying this for a few weeks now but if the CBs on this team start looking for the ball, watch out. Had Wm. Gay been looking for the ball last week, he an easy pick six right in his hands which could have changed the whole outcome of that game.

PP21 needs to be told, look man, just stay stride for stride and then if you look back the ball becomes yours.

STs today did not deliver---all those punts to PP21 and not one close block or one good return.

Feely---not only does he miss the 47 yard gift the Vikings gave the team which could have had the team all the more fired up at half-time, he once again tries the on-side up the middle dribble that never has gone 10 yards.

Plus---you are kicking in a dome---is it too much to ask that you kick the ball deep into the end zone so Harvin doesn't get his hands on the ball?

And then---Rashad Johnson ruining the field position with that stupid unnecessary roughness call. At least Hyphen got it back on the next play---but man those kinds of penalties in the 4th quarter are horrible.

As for the coaching, aside from Horton, I thought it absolutely stunk. As much as I lauded CKW for his maybe best game/time management last week, this week was a return to the egregious game and clock management that has marred his tenure as a head coach.

I was happy he went for the 4th down and 2 in the third quarter, I, just like the FOX crew and most of you, couldn't imagine what he and Miller were thinking on the call. That was about as bad a call on 4th down as there is.

Then, still down 14 with about 10 minutes left in the game, the offense is actually driving and on the same down and distance (4th and 2), and inside Minny territory he PUNTS?

That decision at that time of the game when you've previously shown your team you are going to be aggressive to try to score, was just plain chickensheet...and did nothing to try to boost the confidence of the offense.

The defense did hold---but that's when the Johnson penalty resulted in starting the next drive at their own 24 yard line---which led to yet another failed drive.

But---even with the clock ticking down---NO URGENCY---almost as if they were intent on keeping the score close, but not caring that much about winning the game.

These are reasons why I have not been able to feel trust in CKW---he permits this sheet.

The players who deserve kudos---

RB Hyphen
WR Roberts
The o-line (they were pretty good today all things considered)---and I thought Ahrnsberger played well subbing in for Snyder---Snyder's been playing hurt for weeks anyway.
TE Housler
DE Campbell
DE Eason
DE Holliday
LB Washington
LB Lenon
LB Acho
S Sanders---this guy should be starting---he steps up and makes tackles.
S Wilson---missed AP on a blitz but didn't quit on the play and wound up chasing him down. Wilson broke up a big 3rd down pass and he actually wrapped up on a couple of tackles.
P Zastudil
Leach

Personnel concerns:

RT Massie---can no longer be the starter---he is just not there and is not making much progress. can't believe they wouldn't at least throw McQuistan in there for a series to see if he could muscle Roberson away from Skelton.
As for Batiste---he did a creditable job on Jared Allen. Not great---but not bad either. Still hope Chris Williams will sign because he's had something Batiste and Massie haven't had---lots of practice time blocking a stud DE in Julius Peppers.

WR Fitzgerald---not with him, but with the coaches---he could have had a big day, but you ignored him most of the day.

DE Dockett---major disappointment and if it's because he's hurt, he's hurting the team by being out there---they way he vacated his running lane on APs first quarter TD was awful.

CB Fleming---not ready to play in the first quarter, several weak efforts right in a row.

CB Gay---bad penalty, bad time.

S Johnson---boneheaded penalty.

Final thought: until the Cardinals' offense becomes a big play threat instead of a big mistake threat the Cardinals will have trouble beating anyone unless the defense pitches a shutout or scores points the way Minny did today.

The coaches are responsible for preparing the QB and building the QB's confidence---the two go hand in hand. To strictly blame the coaches is wrong and to strictly blame the QB is also wrong.

Execution often is about how well it has been coached in practice.

The coaches constantly using the "poor execution" card as an indictment of the players is a shrugging of the coaches' own responsibility.

Did I just miss his name but you made no mention of LSD who had a super game and ran like a beast without fear. Had is first 100+ yard game running tough up the middle. He was a hero in that game if anyone was a hero. At 175 lbs he cannot continue to carry the ball that many times taking all those hits. He had the toughest 100 + yd game of the year I thought.

 

[moosehead]

Did I just miss his name but you made no mention of LSD who had a super game and ran like a beast without fear. Had is first 100+ yard game running tough up the middle. He was a hero in that game if anyone was a hero. At 175 lbs he cannot continue to carry the ball that many times taking all those hits. He had the toughest 100 + yd game of the year I thought.

You missed it. Sort of...

The players who deserve kudos---

RB Hyphen
WR Roberts
The o-line (they were pretty good today all things considered)---and I thought Ahrnsberger played well subbing in for Snyder---Snyder's been playing hurt for weeks anyway.
TE Housler
DE Campbell

 

[kerouac9]

Agreed when people come into the box against us they're not blitzing they're either defending the run or maybe run blitzing. You don't have to run blitz against us.

Again look at the play where Housler runs left to chip Allen before running his pattern. Batiste knows it's coming so smart thing is to make sure he protects INSIDE so what's he do, Allen spins inside beats Batiste and goes and hits Skelton. there is nothing coaching can do if your LT can't keep his man out when he has help and only has to worry about one side. Housler barely even got a piece of allen because he beat Batiste so quickly.

Yup. Massie is made to look bad because he can't get any help unless we go max-protect and only put three players out into patterns. Massie isn't good enough to hold up on his own against a player even of Robison's caliber one-on-one. Especially when the interior OL is getting pushed back so deeply that there's no where for Skelton to find space to work in.

I said it after the Rams game: this offense is non-operative if it has to rely on 12- to 17-play drives to get points. It's just too difficult to put those drives together and to continue to get first downs in third-and-six situations. A 13-yard reception isn't a big play, but it's a big play in this offense right now.

If we just ask Skelton to drop back in a five-step drop out of shotgun and put the ball in the air and hope Larry runs under it, we're going to look like Georgia Tech's offense, and Fitz struggles to get off the press and can't get downfield to grab that ball. It doesn't work in the NFL.

 

[john h]

You missed it. Sort of...

Obviously I am behind the times as I did not pick up on his nickname Hyphen. Great nickname whoever came up with it. I should know Mitch would not make that mistake. I guess it is my age.

 

[Chopper0080]

Yup. Massie is made to look bad because he can't get any help unless we go max-protect and only put three players out into patterns. Massie isn't good enough to hold up on his own against a player even of Robison's caliber one-on-one. Especially when the interior OL is getting pushed back so deeply that there's no where for Skelton to find space to work in.

I said it after the Rams game: this offense is non-operative if it has to rely on 12- to 17-play drives to get points. It's just too difficult to put those drives together and to continue to get first downs in third-and-six situations. A 13-yard reception isn't a big play, but it's a big play in this offense right now.

If we just ask Skelton to drop back in a five-step drop out of shotgun and put the ball in the air and hope Larry runs under it, we're going to look like Georgia Tech's offense, and Fitz struggles to get off the press and can't get downfield to grab that ball. It doesn't work in the NFL.

Yeah, I don't know how we get better down the field unless Floyd and Housler really develop into better deep threats than their speed shows them to be. It isn't like we are going to sign a FA WR with speed or draft one as Roberts is a valuable player at this point. Developing a more vertical attack has to be in the offseason priorities along with improving at QB and along the offensive line.

 

[TRW]

Did I just miss his name but you made no mention of LSD.

Dropping acid may be the ONLY way to enjoy a Cardinal game these days...

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah, I don't know how we get better down the field unless Floyd and Housler really develop into better deep threats than their speed shows them to be. It isn't like we are going to sign a FA WR with speed or draft one as Roberts is a valuable player at this point. Developing a more vertical attack has to be in the offseason priorities along with improving at QB and along the offensive line.

I'd like to see Andre Roberts in the slot more. He struggles to get off the press on the outside, but he has the quickness, especially combined with Housler, to get deep. I wonder if he'd be re-directed from his route too easily or something. Roberts has adequate deep speed and acceleration that makes him quicker. I don't know if he's going to be DeSean Jackson from that area, but I think he could do more.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah, I don't know how we get better down the field unless Floyd and Housler really develop into better deep threats than their speed shows them to be. It isn't like we are going to sign a FA WR with speed or draft one as Roberts is a valuable player at this point. Developing a more vertical attack has to be in the offseason priorities along with improving at QB and along the offensive line.

I actually think we need to start flexing Housler out more and move him around to get matchups. If you noticed in the 2nd half the vikings were calling out where housler was on most of the obvious pass downs. I suspect it was because one play he was in the backfield the next lined up one side as TE and at times we had him and King both lined up on the same side. They were trying to move him and get mismatches and think we need to continue to do that.

After he had 4 quick catches the Vikings really changed how they covered him and he had only 1 catch the rest of the way and that was just a 9 yard pass.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Mitch, in a few words: They come out flat.

There's been no "there" there. This team needs a motivator. Enough of the shaking hands before the game. Whiz needs to go tell each player the other side is going to kick his butt then sleep with his sister and what's he going to do about it.

We need some good old-fashioned Deacon Jones "I hate you" on this team.

(They do hate the 49ers. Maybe we'll see it Monday night. I sure hope so. Hate 'em. Beat 'em. Then keep that attitude the rest of the season.)

 

[WildBB]

For two, because right now the odds of a ball control offense working and leading to wins with this particular offensive personnel are extremely low...and I mean extremely low.

For three, when you try to mount long ball control drives, you are one costly sack, turnover or penalty away from a stalled drive.

For this personnel...it is inevitable that a costly sack, turnover or penalty will occur.

For four, and perhaps most importantly, when you do not threaten the defense deep, you get what we saw today, a playmaker like CB Antoine Winfield feeling at ease to play up in the box all game long..

The only time Skelton threw deep in the game was on a free play.

What the Cardinals are doing by running on early downs and playing dink and dunk on 3rd downs is allowing the defense to play them tight---there's no looseness at all.

That Viking secondary is not that good at all---but the Cardinals' offensive coaches helped make them look good by allowing them to play up and not on their heels.

For this game I'd agree. Still think you need to run a two TE offense for the pass pro schemes to at least chip the DE's before going out on patterns. But that only leaves room for 2-3 WR's depending if you go with an empty back field or not.

The other problem is Skelton's accuracy issues. Their were also numberous instances where I saw after the first read was covered he just can't locate wide open recievers well enough. Or he forces when he should be going elsewhere. We just need better QB play. Skelton needs to view the whole field better. He like Kolb also needs some better time, but teams are going to consistently bring the heat in forcing these QB's hands, and D's are going to be pressing this O. Both passing and running games thus suffer.

They got to pick and choose whom to help on particular downs (whether Batiste or Massey) with a TE and tell the running back they have b/u responsability for the other side. We need to get the edges blocked to take our shots downfield.

 

[WildBB]

Mitch, in a few words: They come out flat.

There's been no "there" there. This team needs a motivator. Enough of the shaking hands before the game. Whiz needs to go tell each player the other side is going to kick his butt then sleep with his sister and what's he going to do about it.

We need some good old-fashioned Deacon Jones "I hate you" on this team.

(They do hate the 49ers. Maybe we'll see it Monday night. I sure hope so. Hate 'em. Beat 'em. Then keep that attitude the rest of the season.)

Awsome...they didn't compete well enough from the get go. Lennon and Wilson were playing hard as usual but they let the Vikes dictate to them esp. in the running game in the 1st half. They should have been better prepared to stop AP from the beginning, cause he always plays well against us.....(that draft oversight thinggy)

 

[WildBB]

Yeah, I don't know how we get better down the field unless Floyd and Housler really develop into better deep threats than their speed shows them to be. It isn't like we are going to sign a FA WR with speed or draft one as Roberts is a valuable player at this point. Developing a more vertical attack has to be in the offseason priorities along with improving at QB and along the offensive line.

Don't worry V. Young or M. Moore are coming along with C. Williams.

 

[PJ1]

Mitch, in a few words: They come out flat.

There's been no "there" there. This team needs a motivator. Enough of the shaking hands before the game. Whiz needs to go tell each player the other side is going to kick his butt then sleep with his sister and what's he going to do about it.

We need some good old-fashioned Deacon Jones "I hate you" on this team.

(They do hate the 49ers. Maybe we'll see it Monday night. I sure hope so. Hate 'em. Beat 'em. Then keep that attitude the rest of the season.)

Unfortunately they hate us too and have more weapons.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Unfortunately they hate us too and have more weapons.

Defeatist attitude. I'm voting you off the island.

 

[john h]

The offensive coaches are now very intent on forcing a running game, and thanks to some solid blocking and some nifty, slippery, gutsy running by Hyphen, they showed real progress...as they did with Powell last week.

Yet both weeks resulted in losses. How come?


It is really sort of simple. We do not have as good a players as our opponents. Especailly at QB. We also have to many injuries. If we could have two good OTs and a healthy Kolb and our RBs could have stayed healthy we could have competed.We still do not have the QB to take us much beyond one win in the playoffs. Maybe not even that with SF and Seattle in our division. We do have the beginnings of a good team with the proper help. Of course many teams can say that. Just think of what we may have purchased in FA if we had not spent all the money, player, and draft choice on Kolb? That will go down as one of the Cards worst trades ever. We would not have Kolb and would have picked some QB other than Kolb for a lot less. We would still have an outstanding starting DB and we might have drafted some QB who may have made a difference. The cost of the Kolb move is really long lasting and enormous.

 

[Gee!]

This just in.. Skelton just completed another pass to the dirt..

 

[Chopper0080]

This just in.. Skelton just completed another pass to the dirt..

Somebody tell him the bounce pass only works in basketball.