Wainstein drops the hammer on UNC for academic fraud

[Russ Smith]

Called it a shadow curriculum, that academic advisors knew and were steering athletes into the classes to keep them eligible.

Matt Doherty admitted that when he was hired as coach for basketball the system was in place and he was told to not touch the system, and he was the coach that abused it the most.

Roy Williams replaced Doherty, and brought Wayne Walden with him as academic advisor. Walden admits to Wainstein he knew what was going on, knew why they had the classes and knew what they were being used for. Walden worked for Roy. Roy says he did NOT know about the fake classes but that in 2007 he expressed concern that so many of his players were enrolled in the AFAM classes.

Hmm, I guess going over to Walden's office and asking him why didn't occur to Roy? I mean Walden says he knew, it was his job, if Roy noticed why in the world did he not ask Walden?

Not exactly plausible there Roy.

 

[Dback Jon]

Shameful.

2/3 of the team that was handed the 2005 NCAA title by the refs were in this program.

UNC should be required to:

Forfeit all football and basketball wins since 1999
Immediately terminate all coaches employed during that period
Stripped of 50% of football and basketball schollies for next 5 years
Banned from post-season for 5 years

 

[Russ Smith]

Shameful.

2/3 of the team that was handed the 2005 NCAA title by the refs were in this program.

UNC should be required to:

Forfeit all football and basketball wins since 1999
Immediately terminate all coaches employed during that period
Stripped of 50% of football and basketball schollies for next 5 years
Banned from post-season for 5 years

There's a statute of limitations and all the NC's are past it so nothing like that will happen.

They should go on probation, they should lose scholarships, clearly Roy lied to the ncaa

 

[Dback Jon]

There's a statute of limitations and all the NC's are past it so nothing like that will happen.

They should go on probation, they should lose scholarships, clearly Roy lied to the ncaa

There wasn't for Penn State and Joe Pa.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

There wasn't for Penn State and Joe Pa.

Yeah, since an entire university covering up the serial rape of children is the same thing as unpaid athletes taking easy classes to limit their workload.

Every university has their athletes take easier courses (you think Dee Brown and Luther Head were pre-med?). Hell my high school did and it is commonly known as being one of the best in the state. Let's all calm down here.

 

[Russ Smith]

There wasn't for Penn State and Joe Pa.

It's for things like national championships from what I understand. That is they can't vacate on something that happened more than 5 years ago. That's presumably why all these people waited until now to cooperate with Wainstein, they knew the 5 years was up.

This is pretty damning stuff. They have emails of Jan Boxill telling Crowder what grade a women student needs to stay eligible. They have her admitting she too suspected a paper was plagiarized but didn't know from where. They have people advising athletic academic advisors that Debbie Crowder is about to retire so if you have athletes who need A's or B's to stay eligible you better make sure you get their papers in before she retires. Note, they didn't say make sure the athletes get THEIR papers in, they were literally warning the athletic department that the free grades stuff might go away when Crowder retired.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yeah, since an entire university covering up the serial rape of children is the same thing as unpaid athletes taking easy classes to limit their workload.

Every university has their athletes take easier courses (you think Dee Brown and Luther Head were pre-med?). Hell my high school did and it is commonly known as being one of the best in the state. Let's all calm down here.

I agree, but not to the extent UNC was doing it. 3100 students, half of them athletes.

read Forde's story on Yahoo or some of the other stuff, Jan Boxill was quoted today saying she was shocked at the extent of the fraud, then we find out Boxill was actively participating telling Crowder what grades athletes needed.

The worst one is still Peppers. His academic adviser at UNC was allowed to teach a class in AFAM as an adjunct professor(he was qualified). One of his students was... Julius Peppers. Peppers of course got the grade he needed to be eligible. then Peppers went to the NFL where he hired an agent. Guess who he hired as his agent, his former academic adviser and teacher at UNC.

11 years later, in 2012, the "rogue" professor in AFAM tried to hire the same guy to teach the same AFAM class. They were in the early stages of this scandal breaking, Peppers transcripts had just accidentally been released, and they were going to hire an NFL agent to teach a fake AFAM class to a bunch of students most of whom were presumably going to be student athletes. I'm going to assume most colleges don't allow NFL agents to teach football players.

This is pretty bad stuff.

 

[Southpaw]

Called it a shadow curriculum, that academic advisors knew and were steering athletes into the classes to keep them eligible.

Matt Doherty admitted that when he was hired as coach for basketball the system was in place and he was told to not touch the system, and he was the coach that abused it the most.

Roy Williams replaced Doherty, and brought Wayne Walden with him as academic advisor. Walden admits to Wainstein he knew what was going on, knew why they had the classes and knew what they were being used for. Walden worked for Roy. Roy says he did NOT know about the fake classes but that in 2007 he expressed concern that so many of his players were enrolled in the AFAM classes.

Hmm, I guess going over to Walden's office and asking him why didn't occur to Roy? I mean Walden says he knew, it was his job, if Roy noticed why in the world did he not ask Walden?

Not exactly plausible there Roy.

Seems as if Walden might be Roy's plausible deniability boy. Anyway the AD's name is Bubba. Sounds like a card carrying member of the good ole boys club. Wouldn't mind seeing Roy get his just desserts. UNC is a BB school and there probably isn't a cjance the BB program aka Roy Williams takes a hit. He has his whipping boys take the fall. The dude is smarmy.

 

[Russ Smith]

Seems as if Walden might be Roy's plausible deniability boy. Anyway the AD's name is Bubba. Sounds like a card carrying member of the good ole boys club. Wouldn't mind seeing Roy get his just desserts. UNC is a BB school and there probably isn't a cjance the BB program aka Roy Williams takes a hit. He has his whipping boys take the fall. The dude is smarmy.

Well they actually have quotes from Roy from several years ago where he talks about it being a coaches job to know what's going on. You hire people who work for you but it's your job to know. It was in relation to Kansas getting in trouble when Self took over and it came out that for years, under Roy, they'd been allowing boosters to give ex players gifts, not huge gifts but gifts. Roy said he thought once the kid was gone it was ok, didn't see the potential advantage (hey come to KU when you leave boosters will give you stuff). Roy left, they continued doing it under Self until someone on Self's staff found out it's not allowed and they self reported it.

Roy was asked about it and said they had not meant to break the rule, but that it ultimately was his fault because he's supposed to know what is going on and he's responsible. If walden knew, Roy was supposed to know, he didn't because he didnt' want to.

 

[Dback Jon]

Roy is dirty.

 

[Russ Smith]

Roy is dirty.

I don't think he's dirty in the sense that some coaches are, I just think he was smart enough to realize that it was in his best interests to have the system set up so that he had plausible deniability. I've been using the Clinton "I didn't inhale" defense as a comparison. Roy is asserting that he noticed the clustering of his players, it concerned him, he asked Walden to make sure players were not being steered, but that's as far as he went and he didn't know the classes were fake and being graded by Crowder.

Walden finally agreed to talk(he'd refused to speak to the NCAA or the media) to Wainstein and he admits that he knew. Logically if Roy said to him I want to be sure these kids aren't being steered, and Walden knew what was going on, Walden should have said "Roy they are in fact being steered." Walden knew they were, but he told Wainstein he didn't recall ever telling Roy the whole story.

it's certainly possible, it's just highly implausible.

Totally different circumstances but it's the reason Calipari didn't get dinged for either UMASS or Memphis even though they vacated FF appearances. The system was set up such that Cal could say he did not know Camby had an agent, even though he admitted he once asked Camby how the hell he afforded the famous gold chain(because he knew the family had no money). Clearly he asked because he suspected someone bought it for him, but he said Camby lied to him and he believed the lie. Same with Rose and the SAT cheating, he asked Rose, Rose lied to him, and he believed it.