Waiting to reserve judgement by game five

[Krangodnzr]

Eh, once I knew McCoy was hired, I knew this team was going straight to hell. Good thing I was away when Bradford got signed.

The indicators were there. McCoy has had SOME success before, but hes generally been terrible.

 

[Krangodnzr]

But according to most of the Murray supporters, Rosen was a big part of the problem, not the coaching staff

Rosen WAS part of the problem. There were tons of plays every game that you expect an average NFL QB to make. 4-5 QBs were pressured more than Rosen last year. His QB Rating with a clean pocket was below average.

To paint this picture that Rosen wasnt one of the problems is revisionist history.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The team is independent of the coaching staff. C'mon. This team didn't end up picking #1 overall on accident. Bradford turned out worse than Blaine Gabbert and Drew Stanton.

Arians is an incredible coach. I tried to explain that to people last season when they were like "Acutally, Wilks is BETTER THAN ARIANS who Sucked DUR DUR DUR." You have people who are STILL saying that actually Kliff Kingsbury and his losing college record is probably going to outperform Arians this year.

One thing to point out is that Bradford's performance can also be an indicator of just how bad the coaching last year. Bradford is a better QB than Gabbert and Stanton.

 

[kerouac9]

One thing to point out is that Bradford's performance can also be an indicator of just how bad the coaching last year. Bradford is a better QB than Gabbert and Stanton.

Please support with some of your many advanced stats.

 

[daves]

One thing to point out is that Bradford's performance can also be an indicator of just how bad the coaching last year. Bradford is a better QB than Gabbert and Stanton.

Please support with some of your many advanced stats.

Are you just trying to start inane arguments? Not only is Krang's claim backed up by every meaningful stat on all three QBs... it's just plain obvious to any reasonable person.

Bradford's career passer rating over 83 starts is 84.5; in two years with Minnesota prior to coming to Arizona, it was 101.1; and with the Cardinals under Wilks, it dropped to 62.5. His career completion percentage is 62.5, yards per attempt 6.6 (5.0 with the Cards!), TD-Int 103-61.

Gabbert's career passer rating over 56 games / 48 starts is 71.7. His career completion percentage is a horrendous 56.2, yards per attempt 6.1, TD-Int 48-47.

Stanton's career passer rating over 38 games / 17 starts is 66.3. His career completion percentage is an abyssimal 52.4, yards per attempt 6.2, TD-Int 20-24.

Every one of Gabbert and Stanton's stats (except Stanton's inexplicable 11-6 record) is significantly worse than Bradford's. Under Wilks, Bradford's numbers dropped to Stanton/Gabbert-like levels, but that exactly makes Krang's point. Bradford has been significantly better over his career, but sucked under Wilks.

...dbs

 

[Krangodnzr]

Are you just trying to start inane arguments? Not only is Krang's claim backed up by every meaningful stat on all three QBs... it's just plain obvious to any reasonable person.

Bradford's career passer rating over 83 starts is 84.5; in two years with Minnesota prior to coming to Arizona, it was 101.1; and with the Cardinals under Wilks, it dropped to 62.5. His career completion percentage is 62.5, yards per attempt 6.6 (5.0 with the Cards!), TD-Int 103-61.

Gabbert's career passer rating over 56 games / 48 starts is 71.7. His career completion percentage is a horrendous 56.2, yards per attempt 6.1, TD-Int 48-47.

Stanton's career passer rating over 38 games / 17 starts is 66.3. His career completion percentage is an abyssimal 52.4, yards per attempt 6.2, TD-Int 20-24.

Every one of Gabbert and Stanton's stats (except Stanton's inexplicable 11-6 record) is significantly worse than Bradford's. Under Wilks, Bradford's numbers dropped to Stanton/Gabbert-like levels, but that exactly makes Krang's point. Bradford has been significantly better over his career, but sucked under Wilks.

...dbs

Hes just being a douche to be a douche.

Any fan with one ounce of knowledge knows Bradford is better than Stanton and Gabbert.

I think Arians if he had Bradford his last year would have posted a winning record.

The path to the Cardinals shocking the NFL this year is that they were much better than their record and results from last year indicates because Wilks and staff were that bad.

It's an argument that if you really follow the Cardinals, you know it COULD happen. It's highly unlikely, but there is enough talent on this football team.

 

[kerouac9]

Hes just being a douche to be a douche.

Any fan with one ounce of knowledge knows Bradford is better than Stanton and Gabbert.

I think Arians if he had Bradford his last year would have posted a winning record.

The path to the Cardinals shocking the NFL this year is that they were much better than their record and results from last year indicates because Wilks and staff were that bad.

It's an argument that if you really follow the Cardinals, you know it COULD happen. It's highly unlikely, but there is enough talent on this football team.

If Arians had had Bradford his last year, Drew Stanton and Blaine Gabbert would have been starting even more games than they did with Palmer. Because Sam Bradford played 1 game in 2017.

 

[daves]

If Arians had had Bradford his last year, Drew Stanton and Blaine Gabbert would have been starting even more games than they did with Palmer. Because Sam Bradford played 1 game in 2017.

Everyone knows Bradford is extremely injury prone... but he played 4 in 2018, and wasn't benched for health reasons.

...dbs

 

[Krangodnzr]

If Arians had had Bradford his last year, Drew Stanton and Blaine Gabbert would have been starting even more games than they did with Palmer. Because Sam Bradford played 1 game in 2017.

I'm saying this based on the assumption that you have a healthy Bradford. It's a huge assumption but Bradford is a better QB than either Gabbert or Stanton.

 

[gamebird98]

So, how many games into the season need be played before our new quarterback can be judged?

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Hes just being a douche to be a douche.

Any fan with one ounce of knowledge knows Bradford is better than Stanton and Gabbert.

I think Arians if he had Bradford his last year would have posted a winning record.

The path to the Cardinals shocking the NFL this year is that they were much better than their record and results from last year indicates because Wilks and staff were that bad.

It's an argument that if you really follow the Cardinals, you know it COULD happen. It's highly unlikely, but there is enough talent on this football team.

I agree, if our defense becomes top 10 again & the OL is even remotely decent, I think we will surprise plenty of teams this yr. Murray can scramble & throws so well on the run, the pieces we needed we got through FA & the draft. Only question marks for me is depth at a few positions. Those may be shored up when some vets are cut for little money. No one predicted the Rams worst to first 3 seasons ago either, why not us?

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I'm saying this based on the assumption that you have a healthy Bradford. It's a huge assumption but Bradford is a better QB than either Gabbert or Stanton.

He is but man, did he look horrible for us? Omg, I've never saw him look that bad. He seemed scared to throw the ball, as if he had not enough confidence to get it from point A to point B. I know McCoy's play calling sucked royal donkey ass but jeez, he looked awful. Would miss wide open throws 10 yds down the field. I'm still baffled at how bad he looked, I even remember how much I hated playing the Rams back in the day because of him lol.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Kyler Murray's #1 supporter right here.

It takes courage to say "I think this guy will be great for our franchise".

A lot has to go right to for a player to produce in a new situation. For every Karlos Dansby, there are 100 Buster Davis-es. For every Jared Veldheer, there are ten Mike Iupatis. It's difficult to identify which new players will really contribute.

But Krang and his compatriots have stood up for Murray, knowing that they are risking their credibility, and even some of the respect that they get from others on this board. Which is not a big deal, but it is something.

So I will thank you kerouac9, to, with your next post in this thread, applaud Krang for his courage.

And if you're looking to pick a fight, I'd prefer that you go to the Rams or 49ers' board.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It takes courage to say "I think this guy will be great for our franchise".

A lot has to go right to for a player to produce in a new situation. For every Karlos Dansby, there are 100 Buster Davis-es. For every Jared Veldheer, there are ten Mike Iupatis. It's difficult to identify which new players will really contribute.

But Krang and his compatriots have stood up for Murray, knowing that they are risking their credibility, and even some of the respect that they get from others on this board. Which is not a big deal, but it is something.

So I will thank you kerouac9, to with your next post in this thread, applaud Krang for his courage.

And if you're looking to pick a fight, I'd prefer that you go to the Rams or 49ers' board.

IDGAF about my credibility. Could Murray be a tremendous bust? Yes he could. Every player coming into the NFL has bust potential.

Why I stood on a soapbox for Kyler Murray is that he is the best path to this team being great. The kid exudes greatness. He's lost THREE football games in his life. That isn't a coincidence. Sure he has a small sample size at the collegiate level, but his sample size represents one of five greatest seasons ever by a college passer.

Josh Rosen is/was the diet coke of QBs. He is boring. His personality is boring, he looks boring, and the path to success with Rosen is boring.

I'm going to go all out for the kid because I believe in him.

There is a faction on this board (darksiders?) who literally question almost every move the Cardinals make because it's the safe move to make. They don't stick their neck out there for criticism because they care about being "right". And they usually are because the Cardinals have been historically bad so it's the easy stance to take.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He is but man, did he look horrible for us? Omg, I've never saw him look that bad. He seemed scared to throw the ball, as if he had not enough confidence to get it from point A to point B. I know McCoy's play calling sucked royal donkey ass but jeez, he looked awful. Would miss wide open throws 10 yds down the field. I'm still baffled at how bad he looked, I even remember how much I hated playing the Rams back in the day because of him lol.

He did, but I'm not certain that Rosen played better than he did. I'm pretty sure that over the course of the season, Bradford would've been better. I don't fault the team for seeing what they had in Rosen.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm saying this based on the assumption that you have a healthy Bradford. It's a huge assumption but Bradford is a better QB than either Gabbert or Stanton.

When was the last time Bradford was healthy? When he was putting up Kirk Cousin garbage time stats over three years ago?

You can’t just pretend someone isn’t who they are. There’s no reality where Sam Bradford is good and healthy.

 

[Krangodnzr]

When was the last time Bradford was healthy? When he was putting up Kirk Cousin garbage time stats over three years ago?

You can’t just pretend someone isn’t who they are. There’s no reality where Sam Bradford is good and healthy.

And there is no reality where Gabbert is better than Bradford.

 

[ARZCardinals]

LOL! Judgement comes by half time of the first game

 

[kerouac9]

And there is no reality where Gabbert is better than Bradford.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201812220oti.htm

I found this December game that Blaine Gabbert played in and his team won. THis is the reality we're living in.

It's truly the darkest timeline.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

He did, but I'm not certain that Rosen played better than he did. I'm pretty sure that over the course of the season, Bradford would've been better. I don't fault the team for seeing what they had in Rosen.

They did give up on Bradford too quick. As bad as he looked in those first 3 games, I kept thinking eventually we would see the real Sam Bradford? We know the rest of the story. I hope & pray KM is as electric as his tape shows? I'm very excited to see him play. Preseason can't get here fast enough.

 

[kerouac9]

They did give up on Bradford too quick. As bad as he looked in those first 3 games, I kept thinking eventually we would see the real Sam Bradford? We know the rest of the story. I hope & pray KM is as electric as his tape shows? I'm very excited to see him play. Preseason can't get here fast enough.

This is unhinged

 

[PACardsFan]

IDGAF about my credibility. Could Murray be a tremendous bust? Yes he could. Every player coming into the NFL has bust potential.

Why I stood on a soapbox for Kyler Murray is that he is the best path to this team being great. The kid exudes greatness. He's lost THREE football games in his life. That isn't a coincidence. Sure he has a small sample size at the collegiate level, but his sample size represents one of five greatest seasons ever by a college passer.

Josh Rosen is/was the diet coke of QBs. He is boring. His personality is boring, he looks boring, and the path to success with Rosen is boring.

I'm going to go all out for the kid because I believe in him.

There is a faction on this board (darksiders?) who literally question almost every move the Cardinals make because it's the safe move to make. They don't stick their neck out there for criticism because they care about being "right". And they usually are because the Cardinals have been historically bad so it's the easy stance to take.

I've been on the Murray train from very early on, and like Krang, IDGAF about credibility. I've been watching this franchise for a very long time & the only success I've ever seen is when they had a good/great QB on the roster (Johnson, Hart, Lomax, and Warner). I was a huge Baker Mayfield fan during his time at OU, and honestly, I scoffed at those that thought Kyler would fill his shoes at OU. I tuned in to watch KM fail. I was always a traditionalist at the QB position. I was firmly in the 6'5" QB camp. It seemed the more I watched Murray, the more I was impressed. Yes, he can spin the rock. And yes, he could run like a deer. But this kid is far more than even that. Not only does he have eyes behind his head, but he seems to have them on the side of his head too. I'm sure that the LR coaching helped at OU, but he can read a D & expose it. He throws an effortless pass, can throw darts, and yet, can put air under it when necessary. How many taller QB's have we seen that could throw a ball through a brick wall, yet not have any touch whatsoever?? I'll go to bat for this kid. I think he has crazy skills, and understands the QB position in a way that few guys do coming out of college. He also has fire in his belly to win, yet does a masterful job of never letting it get the better of him. Can bad things happen? Absolutely. But, I haven't been this excited about Cardinal football in a long time. As Vance Joseph said in his interview, this kid is special & will drive DC's crazy trying to defend him.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I've been on the Murray train from very early on, and like Krang, IDGAF about credibility. I've been watching this franchise for a very long time & the only success I've ever seen is when they had a good/great QB on the roster (Johnson, Hart, Lomax, and Warner). I was a huge Baker Mayfield fan during his time at OU, and honestly, I scoffed at those that thought Kyler would fill his shoes at OU. I tuned in to watch KM fail. I was always a traditionalist at the QB position. I was firmly in the 6'5" QB camp. It seemed the more I watched Murray, the more I was impressed. Yes, he can spin the rock. And yes, he could run like a deer. But this kid is far more than even that. Not only does he have eyes behind his head, but he seems to have them on the side of his head too. I'm sure that the LR coaching helped at OU, but he can read a D & expose it. He throws an effortless pass, can throw darts, and yet, can put air under it when necessary. How many taller QB's have we seen that could throw a ball through a brick wall, yet not have any touch whatsoever?? I'll go to bat for this kid. I think he has crazy skills, and understands the QB position in a way that few guys do coming out of college. He also has fire in his belly to win, yet does a masterful job of never letting it get the better of him. Can bad things happen? Absolutely. But, I haven't been this excited about Cardinal football in a long time. As Vance Joseph said in his interview, this kid is special & will drive DC's crazy trying to defend him.

Shoot for greatness.

If you have the number one pick, make the pick that has the best chance of transforming your football team.

 

[Solar7]

IDGAF about my credibility. Could Murray be a tremendous bust? Yes he could. Every player coming into the NFL has bust potential.

Why I stood on a soapbox for Kyler Murray is that he is the best path to this team being great. The kid exudes greatness. He's lost THREE football games in his life. That isn't a coincidence. Sure he has a small sample size at the collegiate level, but his sample size represents one of five greatest seasons ever by a college passer.

Josh Rosen is/was the diet coke of QBs. He is boring. His personality is boring, he looks boring, and the path to success with Rosen is boring.

I'm going to go all out for the kid because I believe in him.

There is a faction on this board (darksiders?) who literally question almost every move the Cardinals make because it's the safe move to make. They don't stick their neck out there for criticism because they care about being "right". And they usually are because the Cardinals have been historically bad so it's the easy stance to take.

There's a chance I'm reading this wrong, so bear with me, but the only moves I question from the Cardinals are the ones where they're so obviously trying to be risky for the sake of being risky, instead of making smart, controlled football moves like the consistently winning teams in the NFL. Keim's playing monkey see, monkey do, but combining the moves of two different monkeys and using different tools.

Rod Graves was a human snail, and Keim is pretty much flinging poo at a wall and seeing what sticks at this point.

 

[Solar7]

Shoot for greatness.

If you have the number one pick, make the pick that has the best chance of transforming your football team.

Or if you have the number one pick, realize your team is awful and you need to rebuild at its core, not sign a bunch of flashy players and an offensive gimmick system coach and his high school crush.