Wake up call for Pace

az jam

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Asked where Pace fit in at defensive end, Green was blunt.

"He’d better get going, that’s where he fits in with me," Green said. "Plain and simple. We should not have to go out and find an unrestricted free agent when we drafted a guy in the first round last year."

IMO Denny won't play games with him, He didn't draft him so there is no feeling of "loyalty" here.
 

schel

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Pace will play according to a quote based on this thread:
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26184

"We didn't sign a guy to bring him in here as second team," Coach Dennis Green said. "Bert will be the starter, and Calvin will play right end. We think Calvin has a lot of potential, but potential doesn't win games this year. We expect him (Calvin) to really become a much better player this year. He understands that. That's not being tough. That's just saying it like it is."
 

spanky1

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Originally posted by az jam
Asked where Pace fit in at defensive end, Green was blunt.

"He’d better get going, that’s where he fits in with me," Green said. "Plain and simple. We should not have to go out and find an unrestricted free agent when we drafted a guy in the first round last year."

IMO Denny won't play games with him, He didn't draft him so there is no feeling of "loyalty" here.

I'm all for tough love but I think that it is being a little unfair to judge Pace as quickly as he seems to.
 

schel

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Originally posted by KingofCards
According to Skkorp that means Bert will line up in front of the left offensive tackle and Pace will line up in front of the right side of the offensive line.

I think Green meant that Pace will back up Berry. :confused:
Oh right, I missed that for some reason. So they'll probably rotate, and Pace won't be in on passing downs.
 

ajcardfan

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Re: Re: Wake up call for Pace

Originally posted by spanky1
I'm all for tough love but I think that it is being a little unfair to judge Pace as quickly as he seems to.

Horse hockey.

One sack is unacceptable and it's absolutely great to hear a coach lay it out like that. It's not a judgement that Pace has to be better, that's a fact.
 

seesred

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I'm sure Pace will line up oposite Bertrum. Green wants to light his fire but...He is still a costly piece and did line up for every down without any supporting cast. I( think he will be a solid D-end.

GBR
 

KingofCards

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Originally posted by schel
Oh right, I missed that for some reason. So they'll probably rotate, and Pace won't be in on passing downs.

Don't take my word for it. I am as confused as the next guy, probably more.

I guess it will be Pace on the left(right) like Strahan's position etc and Berry on the right(left) like Simeon Rice or Pace will back up Berry, which seems like a waste, and the 5 meat heads will fight it out for the Wadsworth side.
 

Tangodnzr

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No offense Skkorp, but your comments have done nothing but cause major confusion....needlessly, because even though you may be correct in that Tobin referred to Simian as LDE, no one else does.

Look at any listing of starting lineups or depth charts and you will see that the defensive positions are named from the defensive perspective of the ball, NOT the offensive.

I, like many others, read Green's comments as: Berry will be starting on the RIGHT side of the definsive line, Pace will be backing him up, and most likely it would seem DJ would start on the Left side. That's only what common sense would tell you anyway.
Pace was pushed into starting too soon last year. I think he will respond just fine. I think he is another good example of being a good "character" guy with a great attitude and work ethic, I predict he will respond, and a couple of years from now, could well be a Denny Green "favorite".

I read this whole scenario as Green IS telling it just like it is, when he says "We think Calvin has a lot of potential, but potential doesn't win games this year. We expect him (Calvin) to really become a much better player this year. He understands that. That's not being tough. That's just saying it like it is."
I think he DOES have the potential, but I still fall back to my old addage: it takes an average of 3 years for most college players to become decent everyday NFL players.
Too much was expected to soon from him last year, especially considering the coaching situation.
I'm really beginning to think Joe Green couldn't teach ANYONE how to improve as a pass rusher.
 

vince56

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Originally posted by KingofCards
I guess it will be Pace on the left(right)...and Berry on the right(left)

Oh hey, thanks for clearing that up, for awhile there I was confused :p
 

Tangodnzr

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wandering a little off topic but......

I'd love to hear/see someone say to Simian Rice: "You know Simian, a lot of people are saying you'd be nothing if it hadn't been for Joe Greene. He made you what you are. You'd be washing dishes for a living if it wasn't for him. You should be playing him part of your salary every year".

...and see what kind of response they get. :D
 

Assface

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Originally posted by Tangodnzr
wandering a little off topic but......

I'd love to hear/see someone say to Simian Rice: "You know Simian, a lot of people are saying you'd be nothing if it hadn't been for Joe Greene. He made you what you are. You'd be washing dishes for a living if it wasn't for him. You should be playing him part of your salary every year".

...and see what kind of response they get. :D


:thumbup:


:biglaugh:
 

AZCB34

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I am not going to question Green's tactics. I mean, he has probably always been this way and gotten results.

However, I disagree with the near venom aimed at Pace. Green is jumping the gun too quickly on Pace. I am not suggesting the Cards shouldn't have been trying to upgrade the DE position but rather, Green is a slash and burn coach whereas the Parcells type approach of understanding the players and actually treating them based on their individual situations is more apropos in this cirsumstance.

JMHO. Green must know what he is doing but I disagree with this calling out players in the press media so harshly when said player hasn't played or practiced one down with the new regime. After the first mini-camp have at it...but this seems over the top.
 

ajcardfan

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I don't think it's "venom". What he said is right. There should not have been a need to sign a DE this year. But, they couldn't count on Pace based on last year.

Now, you can argue that it should've been behind closed doors. Pace would've gotten the message without the embarassment. But, if he can't handle being called out publicly, is he tough enough to make it? Plus, the rest of the team sees this and knows that there are no "sacred cows" anymore, not even last year' first round picks.

It's the "Antimac", but I think it's what this team needs. There was way too much comfort among the players with their positions based on how crappy we've been for the last season and a half. Those guys SHOULD be angry and afraid of losing their jobs.
 

AZCB34

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I guess my point was, I believe something like this could have been held in the lockerroom or weight room and not publically. I don't think Pace is crying about it. I just think that given all the circumstances last year, to single out Pace in such a way (I believe it was venom filled in the tone I detect)is unnecessary.

I believe that with better coaching, better schemeing and better talent out there that Pace will not duplicate 1 sack. I mean, hell he was just a rookie and there is a learning curve for every rookie...some more than others.

Even if Pace had gotten 6 sacks, does anyone really think pursuing a DE in FA wouldn't have been a good idea?
 

Metal Militia

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Originally posted by ajcardfan
Now, you can argue that it should've been behind closed doors. Pace would've gotten the message without the embarassment. But, if he can't handle being called out publicly, is he tough enough to make it?

Exactly. No player has been called out in public for a very long time in Arizona. It is about time to see someone get pissed off and motivated by it.
 

CardsRep03

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Originally posted by seesred
I'm sure Pace will line up oposite Bertrum. Green wants to light his fire but...He is still a costly piece and did line up for every down without any supporting cast. I( think he will be a solid D-end.

GBR

What do you mean he wants to light his fire? Does Berry want him lighting his fire? "Come on Greeney light my fire"--ala the Doors? Just curious:wave:
 

Tangodnzr

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I can only hope that Green really does know what he's doing.

In spite of the doubts I expressed at the time of his hiring, I must say that ..so far.....I think he's been doing a great job. Obviously, like Mac, he's comfortable "with the media", and takes to that like a duck to water.

But, as I posted before, he doesn't appear to be using a "one-size-fits-all" method of motivating players. (Like for instance someone like Tom Caughlin with their totally "my way or the hiway" attitude about everything).

He does appear to pull what he must feel are the most appropriate strings for each individual.

I think everyone has brought up some good points. I think all we can do, right now, is trust that Green knows what he's doing, and see what happens.
Like I said, so far the indications would point in his favor. Maybe he "went public" with his comments about Pace, not just because that was what was needed for him, but maybe because he had seen enough of Pace to know that he would handle it fine, and he could kill two birds with one stone by using this as an example for others, knowing that Pace would not get "upset" about it.

I think this is another area where some people have again wrongfully dissed Graves and Mac for bringing in "character" players, yet one's with some talent too.
What a nice situation for Green, not having to deal with Simians, Mosses, Carters, and various and asundry other "attitude problems."

Yet still he (Green) is maintaining that definite, "I'm in control, play or you're gone" attitude at the same time. A difficult tightrope to walk...between using your power to demand action, and motivating on a more personal and individual basis.

For any true, long eduring, Card fan, it shouldn't be too difficult to "keepa little faith" here. :thumbup:
 

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Coach Green has publically challenged DE C Pace, DT W Bryant, TE F jones, and DB A Wilson. I think it great that he's telling everyone what he thinks. Its not harsh like Coughlin or budy-buddy like Mac. Its the business of building a winning football team.
Just the facts: these guys have to step up for the Cardinals to win.
 

DevonCardsFan

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Originally posted by Metal Militia
Exactly. No player has been called out in public for a very long time in Arizona. It is about time to see someone get pissed off and motivated by it.

It's great how players have to live up to there underachieving now:thumbup:
 

AZCB34

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Guess I am in the minority. No biggie. I think Green is using a one size fits all personally but I guess who cares. Just never got into the whole "I am going to run to media instead of being a man and confronting things head-on". Same holds true for the players who do it.
 

vikesfan

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If Pace had 9 or 10 sacks the Cards don't take Berry.

Suggs was a rookie he got 12 sacks. K Williams was a rookie on a horrendous Vikes defense and managed 10 sacks. My grandmother could get 1 sack.

Green knows what he is doing. I don't think that was all that harsh. By the way Green has a better record then Parcells.
 

AzCards21

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Originally posted by ajcardfan
Now, you can argue that it should've been behind closed doors. Pace would've gotten the message without the embarassment. But, if he can't handle being called out publicly, is he tough enough to make it? Plus, the rest of the team sees this and knows that there are no "sacred cows" anymore, not even last year' first round picks.

If you're not emberrased by the teams record last year then being called out in public won't mean anything to you anyway. And if that's the case lets find out now and get rid of those guys. Every one of those players contributed to putting out a 5-11 effort. Nobody deserves immunity on this island.
 
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