Walton's Foot Was on The Line

[jibikao]

Tell me, what I don't know about basketball? Generally, when someone makes a statement like that, they back it up. So, please elaborate, o wise one, on how I don't know playoff basketball.

And of course you're scared of tonight's game, and of course you're not going to go all the way and say the Suns win out. That would mean YOU would have to pick a side of the fence and not just stand there teetering on the ledge without any courage or real conviction either way. You see, its people like you that are the true wolves in sheeps clothing, because you never have the courage to pick a side but try to condemn those who do.

Why not make a stance and stick with it? Oh the Lakers are lucky to be here, oh the Suns won't win out, oh, I'm scared of tonights game. Pick a side already and lets debate. Or maybe you're just like those other dogs whose bark is worse than its bite.

D-Dog! lol Oh god, I don't know who you are but this is good reading for me at work.

 

[LakerReign]

Well, I can't wait forever for a response "dogg", so later everyone. Suns will win tonight. Mark it down

 

[TucsonDevil]

Thank you LakerReign... I have marked it down and put my mortgage payment on the line for it. I appreciate the insight. I consider myself lucky to have come across such insight - You Rock!

 

[jbeecham]

http://www.nypost.com/sports/63223.htm

TIMEOUT! REF DONE NASH WRONG

By PETER VECSEY

May 2, 2006 -- Week 2 of the first round of the playoffs, what better time to take a timeout - only let's not dare try to go through Bennett Salvatore, whose venetian blinds either are pulled too tight or his séances with Richie Powers have been far too successful.

"Where was Bennett Salvatore when I needed him?" Chris Webber wailed.

Initially, when I saw the silver-haired referee choose to ignore Steve Nash's semi-signal and frantic pleas for a timeout at the split-end of overtime Sunday, I felt Salvatore deserved to be sautéed, spayed and scrubbed from the remainder of the playoffs.

After witnessing Kobe Bryant's resulting game-busting shot, I volunteered to address the first two odd jobs myself.

How could Salvatore fail to acknowledge Nash's demi-directional? He was in perfect position on the sidelines, looking straight at the caretaker of everything that's holy to the Suns.

Nash was doing everything in his power to make Salvatore understand, yet he resisted any response until calling a jump ball, subsequently won by Luke Walton which led to Kobe's day-dreaming pot shot.

What more could Nash have done to get Salvatore's attention? Form a perfect "T" with his hands? I've known aspiring side-show freaks who've flunked out of circus school for being unable to accomplish that feat while cradling a ball and being suffocated by two serial defenders.

How could Salvatore neglect to hear Nash screeching for a timeout?

We've all seen hundreds of players fall on the floor to recover a loose ball and get instantly recognized for calling a timeout. We've all seen hundreds of players chase down a loose ball and receive a spur-of-the-moment timeout before falling out of bounds.

This is Nash's 10th season, the last two of the MVP variety. Think he might understand what to expect from the refs in that situation? Think he might've experienced it once or twice before with a different outcome?

Salvatore has been around way longer than Nash - too long, obviously. Think, by now, he might be aware a timeout may be asked for as soon the second the dribbler tastes trouble?

What was he looking for, a sign of the cross? What was he waiting for, the Lakers to gain an advantage so the eminently larger market and juicier team is in position to advance?

Unfortunately, that's what many fans believe. It's mysterious non-calls like this - by all means, not the only one that greatly influenced the final verdict - that lead too many people out there to believe there's an NBA playoff bracket on David Stern's desk and it's already filled out.

I love the game and prefer not to entertain such impure thoughts. At the same time, I can see why the mind of casual NBA fan might intersect with a $2 bettor at Yonkers.

In any event, just in case Nash - born in South Africa, by way of Canada - should ever find himself trapped in a similar ambush, he might want to hire a translator so he'll know the correct English term for timeout.

Meanwhile, half of the eight matchups are down to best-of-threes - who said the mini-series was dead? -while all have developed plot lines that would make Hollywood jealous - provided, of course, Hollywood produced anything with plot lines.

Curing those ills in Beverly Hills, who'd have thunk my Paper Clips would make it into the second round and the Lakers would be 3-1 to the good? This is the best thing to happen to Tinseltown since they noosed Deuce Bigelow - played by Rob Schneider, who, by the way, made a seamless transition from not being funny on TV to being not funny in the movies. I suspect that's not as easy as appears.

The Clippers returned to the Office Supply Center last night to eliminate Denver and make it into the second round for the first time since the Bicentennial when they were known as the Buffalo Wings.

Of course, drawing dysfunctional Denver -where George Karl and Kenyon Martin are dissin' and Carmelo is just plain missin' (33 FG percentage) - hasn't exactly hurt the cause.

As for the Lakers, let's just say there hasn't been such an escape from Staples since I got whisked out of the building's dungeon after the '00 Finals, when the fan base was incinerating the inner city.

Down five with less than 13 seconds left in regulation and down three with under 15 seconds left in OT - it was undoubtedly Kobe's greatest escape not involving his checkbook.

Then, there is Miami, which lost both its game and its cool Sunday at Chicago. It was like a typical day at Hot-97, only without the chalk outlines.

I guess that's what a 31-5 free-throw disparity does.

 

[jbeecham]

I emailed Peter Vescey the pic of Walton's foot out of bounds when he gets the jumpball call. Maybe he'll actually use it.

 

[jbeecham]

Also there's this article:

Suns' loss part of conspiracy?

Bob Young
The Arizona Republic
May. 2, 2006 12:00 AM

NBA conspiracy theorists are loudly crying foul.

And time out.

Steve Nash got hacked and Boris Diaw asked for a timeout in Sunday's Game 4, they insist, before referee Bennett Salvatore called for a jump ball between Nash and LA's Luke Walton in the final moments of overtime.

Plus, they're all worked up over a grainy, Abraham Zapruder-like photo taken from ABC-TV's broadcast of the game that surfaced Monday and suggests Walton's left foot was out of bounds when he grabbed the ball while it was in Nash's grasp.

"This series is fixed, just like the outcome of a WWE SmackDown," one irate Republic reader wrote columnist Dan Bickley.

There were plenty of other similar e-mails and phone messages.

Walton, of course, won the ensuing jump ball, and Kobe Bryant buried the winning jumper just before time expired to give LA a 99-98 victory and a 3-1 lead in the best-of-seven series.

The conspiracy theorists, mostly angry Suns fans, say Nash, the soon-to-be announced two-time MVP, didn't get either call because the always-scheming NBA wants Bryant and Phil Jackson and the Lakers to advance to the next round. That would pit them against the Clippers, with whom they share the Staples Center in one of the bigger markets in the league.

The Suns aren't buying it, at least publicly.

"Everyone knows that the Lakers (vs.) Clippers would be great, but I don't really believe in a conspiracy," Nash said Monday. "If we had made one more shot, we wouldn't be talking about this."

True, but Nash said he definitely felt "some contact" before the jump ball was called, and that he heard Diaw call for a timeout at least twice.

And in English, not Diaw's native French.

"It was frustrating that Boris was standing right next to Bennett Salvatore and called a timeout and never got one," Nash said. "But we can't blame it on the referees. We had our opportunities. It just wasn't meant to be. So many things went against us in succession. It was just crazy."

That's as far as Nash would go on the conspiracy theory.

(He also didn't reveal what Jack Nicholson said to him during the game that made him laugh so hard.)

Coach Mike D'Antoni wasn't biting on the conspiracy theory either. But when asked about the jump ball, the I-don't-want-to-get-fined-for-blasting-the-refs expression on his face spoke volumes.

"Oh, yeah, I understand what they (the conspiracy theorists) are talking about," D'Antoni said with a smile. "It's part of the game. What other clichés do I have (for you)?"

D'Antoni said Sunday's defeat stung more than any other in the 46 years he's been involved with organized basketball and likened watching video of the last few moments of overtime to "watching a car wreck."

"It's one of those things that people say, 'Well, on the first and 15th of the month (payday) you'll be happy,' but you don't get over that one," D'Antoni said. "I don't care how much you get paid . . . That one hurt. That one takes the wind out of your sails."

Suns owner Robert Sarver agreed.

"We got screwed again," Sarver said immediately following the game during an interview on Channel 15. He also said the refs were "star struck" because of all the Lakers banners hanging inside the Staples Center.

Sarver backed off a bit when he spoke to the Heat Index Monday.

"The game was on TV and everybody saw it," Sarver said. "I don't think I need to pile on . . . I thought they were going to call a foul (on Walton). But that's my view . . . If I'm going to give away 50 grand (via a fine by the league), I'm better off giving it to charity."

Sarver said the Suns contacted the NBA Monday about a few calls made Sunday, but he wasn't expecting the league to take any action.

"It's a waste of time and really kind of futile," Sarver said. "(But) I think you do it because it makes you feel better."

 

[nowagimp]

The conspiracy theory story in the republic call the photo "grainy", maybe vera?, the author should see the HDTV shot, which wasnt "grainy" at all.

 

[jbeecham]

I emailed the new clearer picture to him, peter vescey, dan bickley, paul coro, j brown @ the AZ Tribune, etc.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The conspiracy theory story in the republic call the photo "grainy", maybe vera?, the author should see the HDTV shot, which wasnt "grainy" at all.

Minus the captions of course

 

[jbeecham]

Paul Coro just replied to me:

wow, that one is much better quality. but at least we got the one in today.
thanks to you and some other fans who were all over that. i honestly did not see it and the team didn't know about it until i told them about the photo.

thanks again,
paul

 

[D-Dogg]

Tell me, what I don't know about basketball? Generally, when someone makes a statement like that, they back it up. So, please elaborate, o wise one, on how I don't know playoff basketball.

And of course you're scared of tonight's game, and of course you're not going to go all the way and say the Suns win out. That would mean YOU would have to pick a side of the fence and not just stand there teetering on the ledge without any courage or real conviction either way. You see, its people like you that are the true wolves in sheeps clothing, because you never have the courage to pick a side but try to condemn those who do.

Why not make a stance and stick with it? Oh the Lakers are lucky to be here, oh the Suns won't win out, oh, I'm scared of tonights game. Pick a side already and lets debate. Or maybe you're just like those other dogs whose bark is worse than its bite.

Ok troll, here's the jist.

Prior to the series Suns fans were predicting sweeps and easy wins. They loved that they beat us by ten in each game. They loved that the Nash led game was run and fun and would win out over this poor Laker team.

I however, said that the Lakers have been playing the wrong game in the regular season, have been going small against the Suns when they needed to pound Kwame and Lamar. That they needed to control tempo. That the Suns were slumping at the end of the year, and the Lakers' offense seemed to be coming together. That with Kobe and Phil, the Lakers had a team that knows the playoffs. That it would be tight, physical games.

Tell me where I was wrong. Tell me where your knowledge of the Lakers has been superior to mine? Tell me just one instance when my ideal gameplan was incorrect? Did I say "Kobe needs to score 60 to win?" No. Did I say "we can run with these guys?" No. Hell, F-Dog has a quote on his sig that shows what I said in this series, and I'm still right so far. Phil is a great coach in the Playoffs, and knows how to do it.

Yes, if the Suns win tonight, the Lakers are facing a tough game 6...but you think they will lose if they get it. You don't understand momentum if that's the case. Right now the Lakers are on high, the Suns back against the wall. It's a great call to say the Suns win...and I'm saying it as well. But if they do, I don't expect to proclaim game 7 like you do. That smacks of Suns troll.

You still...STILL say that Kobe's going to just go crazy shooting because a game 6 is important. Game 4 was THE most important game thus far, and he took less shots than ever in this series. 14. If you ARE a Lakers fan, perhaps you had your eyes closed every single playoff run except when Shaq had the ball. Kobe is probably the only guy in the league that will adjust his game on the fly, score, distribute, defend the best guy...whatever he's asked to do. If you've ever watched the Lakers in the Playoffs with Kobe under Phil, you'd get this. But you don't. So you are either a Suns troll, a Shaq fan, or the most idiotic Laker Fan ever.

Don't you EVER call me out again troll...you don't have the knowledge or the gumption to stick with me. Again...nice try if you're a Suns fan...and too bad your guy is getting bounced if you're a Shaq fan. But to try and pretend you're a Lakers fan with a shred of knowledge is akin to saying I'm a Celtic fan at heart. And them's fighting words. Collect it...understand it, and walk the hell away.

Yeah, this is a huge game, but if they lose it won't be because Kobe goes Antoine Walker. And if they lose game 6, it won't be because Kobe goes 12-35. Take your Laker hate somewhere else. Even Suns fans see through your ruse. They know see that the Lakers have a good gameplan against their team and if they execute, they can close out.

You're just a joke and to call me out, of all people, shows how wrong you are.

 

[D-Dogg]

http://www.nypost.com/sports/63223.htm

TIMEOUT! REF DONE NASH WRONG

By PETER VECSEY

Nice article, but his hook is that Nash called a TO, which he said he did not do. There are some problems with that play, to be sure, but Nash calling a TO is not one of them.

Oh, and Vecsey is an idiot...that's hardly disputed. He's a tabloid hack.

 

[jbeecham]

Nice article, but his hook is that Nash called a TO, which he said he did not do. There are some problems with that play, to be sure, but Nash calling a TO is not one of them.

Oh, and Vecsey is an idiot...that's hardly disputed. He's a tabloid hack.

I agree that Vescey is mis-informed on the timeout. I was just happy that someone actually had the balls to write an article like this. If he can focus on the other problems with the play, the fouling, Walton out of bounds, Diaw calling timeout, etc. then his article would be better.

 

[D-Dogg]

I agree that Vescey is mis-informed on the timeout. I was just happy that someone actually had the balls to write an article like this. If he can focus on the other problems with the play, the fouling, Walton out of bounds, Diaw calling timeout, etc. then his article would be better.

That's asking a lot for Vescey. He's about the most homerific **** on the Knicks, and just a tabloid hack.

Yeah, that play was a bad call...but not for the reason that Peter tries to call. Much better article if he knew what the hell he was talking about. But far be it for me to ask a reporter to at least read the post-game comments from the coaches and players.

 

[D-Dogg]

Laker Feign, I hope you can respond to this in time.

Jib...don't lose your job laughing at a troll's job trying to attack me. And also, have you been registering new email addresses lately? Just wondering.

 

[elindholm]

D-Dogg, you've handled yourself well this series, but forgive me if I disagree with you. We did not underestimate the Lakers so much as we overestimated the Suns. I don't think you would dispute either of the following opinions:

1. The Suns have pretty much played like crap most of this series.

2. Had Nash made even one of his nine straight misses, OR kept his footing at the end of regulation, OR not dribbled into a trap at the end of overtime, OR gotten the (Diaw) timeout call, OR gotten the (Walton) out-of-bounds call, this series would be 2-2 and the Suns would have momentum.

In other words:

Yes, the Lakers are winning, but it has a lot more to do with the Suns' poor play, mistakes, and bad luck than it does with what the Lakers are doing right. Even with Bryant inspiring his teammates to their best play, it's only the most outrageous combination of improbable events that have conspired (no pun intended) to put the Lakers in the lead.

I picked the Suns in 5, but it wasn't through arrogance or a failure to appreciate Phil Jackson's genius. The Suns are a better team, and if they had gotten JUST ONE out of a dozen possible breaks in Game 4, they would be 2-2 with home-court advantage right now. Even playing far, far below their best, the Suns are even with the best the Lakers can offer.

 

[jbeecham]

Peter Vescey's response:

Salvatore assures me once Nash wins his third MVP award he'll start giving him the benefit of the doubt

 

[asudevil83]

Paul Coro just replied to me:

wow, that one is much better quality. but at least we got the one in today.
thanks to you and some other fans who were all over that. i honestly did not see it and the team didn't know about it until i told them about the photo.

thanks again,
paul

if that's true then i dont even know who's going to say what about it.

the media really hasnt said ANYTHING about this no-call....and if havent already seen the photo's or a clip of the play then i expect some sort of talk about it.

 

[Chaplin]

Peter Vescey's response:

Salvatore assures me once Nash wins his third MVP award he'll start giving him the benefit of the doubt

That's obviously Vescey's poor attempt at humor.

 

[D-Dogg]

D-Dogg, you've handled yourself well this series, but forgive me if I disagree with you. We did not underestimate the Lakers so much as we overestimated the Suns. I don't think you would dispute either of the following opinions:

1. The Suns have pretty much played like crap most of this series.

I agree with pretty much all you have to say, other than to add that I don't think it is just the Suns playing poorly, but that the Lakers are putting them in bad positions to play their game, resulting in their outcomes.

I felt the same way when we used to play the Spurs in the playoffs...they always "choked" in the 4th quarter, but I always felt it was the way the Lakers played them, making them take uncomfortable shots out of their offense (ie. not letting Bowen shoot the corner three, but shoot from the arm instead) that led to their poorer shooting.

Phil is very good at taking away comfort zones on defense...I think the Bulls teams were overrated in their individual defense, but as a team they made people shoot out of their comfort level almost every trip.

I wouldn't put all the Suns offensive problems on the Suns...they are being taken out of their comfort level and asked to make different kinds of shots. The series will be tough if the Suns can shrug that off. But what you do over a full season tends to get ingrained.

 

[elindholm]

I agree that the Lakers have disrupted what the Suns are trying to do. They've done a good job limiting cuts and punishing the Suns for getting sloppy on the boards, and they've managed to extend their defense without getting hurt inside. But that doesn't explain the Suns lack of energy in Games 2 and 3, nor the countless "in and out" shots (on good looks) that they had in the second half of Game 4.

I didn't expect the Suns to score 110 a game in this series, but I did expect them to move without the ball consistently and shoot better than 44%. The Lakers aren't the first team to try to slow the Suns down, you know, and by and large the Suns have done an excellent job all season of putting up their numbers anyway. Of course now it's not working, but I still think that has more to do with the Suns than with the Lakers.

 

[D-Dogg]

I agree that the Lakers have disrupted what the Suns are trying to do. They've done a good job limiting cuts and punishing the Suns for getting sloppy on the boards, and they've managed to extend their defense without getting hurt inside. But that doesn't explain the Suns lack of energy in Games 2 and 3, nor the countless "in and out" shots (on good looks) that they had in the second half of Game 4.

I didn't expect the Suns to score 110 a game in this series, but I did expect them to move without the ball consistently and shoot better than 44%. The Lakers aren't the first team to try to slow the Suns down, you know, and by and large the Suns have done an excellent job all season of putting up their numbers anyway. Of course now it's not working, but I still think that has more to do with the Suns than with the Lakers.

The Suns, I think, played their best game of the series last game, as it pertains to countering the Lakers plan. Those doubles with bigs on Kobe were great, and something we really haven't seen before. They resulted in a couple of cross court turnovers and easy fast breaks for you guys. You also did a great job is creating mismatches with Smush, and also getting Nash on Kwame, though Nash didn't press the issue (and Kwame is very quick for a big man, so I don't blame him...he tried early in the series with not much success). Those mismatches will be taken advantage of tonight.

It all comes down to rebounds.

If you guys are within a rebound of us again, like Sunday, you win this game. If we get a 5-10 advantage, we'll probably close out.

 

[F-Dog]

Back to the beginning...

The jump ball on Walton was just a horrible call. The Lakers are obviously trying to foul because of the game situation; there's no excuse for making that call at that point--any contact at all is an automatic foul.

They made the same call at the end of regulation, and that should have been a foul, too, even though there wasn't significant contact. But the second call was just a Dick Bavetta-level gift by Bennett Salvatore, handing the Lakers the game.

 

[LakerReign]

Ok troll, here's the jist.

Prior to the series Suns fans were predicting sweeps and easy wins. They loved that they beat us by ten in each game. They loved that the Nash led game was run and fun and would win out over this poor Laker team.

I however, said that the Lakers have been playing the wrong game in the regular season, have been going small against the Suns when they needed to pound Kwame and Lamar. That they needed to control tempo. That the Suns were slumping at the end of the year, and the Lakers' offense seemed to be coming together. That with Kobe and Phil, the Lakers had a team that knows the playoffs. That it would be tight, physical games.

Tell me where I was wrong. Tell me where your knowledge of the Lakers has been superior to mine? Tell me just one instance when my ideal gameplan was incorrect? Did I say "Kobe needs to score 60 to win?" No. Did I say "we can run with these guys?" No. Hell, F-Dog has a quote on his sig that shows what I said in this series, and I'm still right so far. Phil is a great coach in the Playoffs, and knows how to do it.

Yes, if the Suns win tonight, the Lakers are facing a tough game 6...but you think they will lose if they get it. You don't understand momentum if that's the case. Right now the Lakers are on high, the Suns back against the wall. It's a great call to say the Suns win...and I'm saying it as well. But if they do, I don't expect to proclaim game 7 like you do. That smacks of Suns troll.

You still...STILL say that Kobe's going to just go crazy shooting because a game 6 is important. Game 4 was THE most important game thus far, and he took less shots than ever in this series. 14. If you ARE a Lakers fan, perhaps you had your eyes closed every single playoff run except when Shaq had the ball. Kobe is probably the only guy in the league that will adjust his game on the fly, score, distribute, defend the best guy...whatever he's asked to do. If you've ever watched the Lakers in the Playoffs with Kobe under Phil, you'd get this. But you don't. So you are either a Suns troll, a Shaq fan, or the most idiotic Laker Fan ever.

Don't you EVER call me out again troll...you don't have the knowledge or the gumption to stick with me. Again...nice try if you're a Suns fan...and too bad your guy is getting bounced if you're a Shaq fan. But to try and pretend you're a Lakers fan with a shred of knowledge is akin to saying I'm a Celtic fan at heart. And them's fighting words. Collect it...understand it, and walk the hell away.

Yeah, this is a huge game, but if they lose it won't be because Kobe goes Antoine Walker. And if they lose game 6, it won't be because Kobe goes 12-35. Take your Laker hate somewhere else. Even Suns fans see through your ruse. They know see that the Lakers have a good gameplan against their team and if they execute, they can close out.

You're just a joke and to call me out, of all people, shows how wrong you are.

First of all, who didn't know that the way to attack the Suns was through a low post game?(considering they have no big men, I thought it was understood by virtually every knowledgeable fan with any semblance of an IQ that this was the way to go) Are you really telling me that your ego is so HHHUUUGGGGEE that you believe you're the only one that could see this?

You knew that the Lakers were playing the wrong game in the regular season? You think? What gave that away? Uh, maybe because the Lakers were 1-3 against them and the only one they won was when Nash sat out. Another brillant analysis by you, that us poor dim witted basketball fans couldn't figure out.

Now here's where me and you are coming to our crossroads, we both agree the Suns win tonight, but you think the lakers go home and take care of business in game 6, right? Something to do with momentum, I believe you called it. Something, you accused me of not knowing about. Well let's just see about that, but first...

The only reason Kobe took as few a shots as he did in game 4 was because of foul trouble. Why don't find out how many minutes he played in the game before building an argument. Three other Lakers played more minutes than him and Kobe still ended up taking the 2nd most shots. You know, I must say, your arguments are paperthin at best, but let's move on...

When the Lakers lose tonight and go home, Kobe will resort to taking on the role of savior again in game 6. It's the way he's wanted things and the way things will be. What do you think is more likely? Kobe playing the way he had for 82 games or Kobe playing the way he has for the last 4? If you believe that this tiger has all of a sudden changed his strips, then you're the one who's dillusional.

And, by the way, throwing different accusational theories out there like " you must be a Shaq fan because you think this way..." is one of the worst counter points of attack I've ever heard. At least live up to the reputation as a knowledgeable basketball fan that some of the people on here think you are.

Anyway, back to the subject of momentum, you said I didn't understand it, correct? Well, how about this, if the Suns win this game tonight, I say they win the series,... you say the Lakers win in 6 because of momentum(which I don't understand). How about the loser never comes back to this site. Ever. Let's see if you're willing to buy into your momentum theory. Deal?

If Suns win series=you leave
If Lakers do=I leave

Yes or no?

 

[F-Dog]

Why don't you both leave?


You can have your Lakers conversations at Lakersground, Clublakers or Lakerstalk, or if you can't find any of those sites, you can go to the smack forum.