War Room Rankers

[JeffGollin]

Since Dennis ascribes to the Best Athlete theory, it would behoove us all to think in terms of ranking the top players regardless of position.

But it's so early, it's easy for each of us to be way off in our evaluations.

I figure a good objective source would be the Sporting News War Room; so I checked out their list of 99 Top Prospects regardless of position.

It's not perfect (the list will change a gazillion times during the next 3 months &, like most lists, a few players who belong there, will be missing). But, by and large, it's probably as good a source as you'll find out there.

Their top 15 players are:

1. Rolle WR Miami
2. Pollack DE Ga
3. Barron T Florida
4. Edwards WR Michigan
5. A Rodgers QB Cal (I disagree with this one)
6. Wright DT Texas
7. Clayton WR Oklahoma
8. Leinart QB USC
9. Ferguson T Virginia
10. T Johnson DT FSU
11. James DE Wisc
12. Benson RB Texas
13. Walter QB ASU
14. D. Johnson LB Texas
15. M Williams WR USC

I suppose decent cases could be made for elevating certain guys who didn't make the Top 15 - therefore it makes sense to keep an eye on: Carnell Williams RB (17), Kyle Orton QB (18th), Dan Cody DE (19), Marlin Jackson (21) and Alex Smith QB (Not Listed).

And others still above the horizon line on my board would include: Jammal Brown T (30), Shaun Cody DT (34), David Baas G (36), Mike Patterson DT (42), Ronnie Brown RB (52) and Carlos Rogers CB (83)

If this board was Green's board - and he was true to it, he'd take Leinart. But my guess is that, by Draft Day, Dennis' board will look considerably different.

Still - if every team drafted according to the same board and Green adhered to Best Player, the Cards' draft could turn out to be something like: 8. Leinart QB, 40 - 44. Patterson DT, 72 -76. Carlos Rogers CB

 

[WildBB]

Since Dennis ascribes to the Best Athlete theory, it would behoove us all to think in terms of ranking the top players regardless of position.

But it's so early, it's easy for each of us to be way off in our evaluations.

I figure a good objective source would be the Sporting News War Room; so I checked out their list of 99 Top Prospects regardless of position.

It's not perfect (the list will change a gazillion times during the next 3 months &, like most lists, a few players who belong there, will be missing). But, by and large, it's probably as good a source as you'll find out there.

Their top 15 players are:

1. Rolle WR Miami
2. Pollack DE Ga
3. Barron T Florida
4. Edwards WR Michigan
5. A Rodgers QB Cal (I disagree with this one)
6. Wright DT Texas
7. Clayton WR Oklahoma
8. Leinart QB USC
9. Ferguson T Virginia
10. T Johnson DT FSU
11. James DE Wisc
12. Benson RB Texas
13. Walter QB ASU
14. D. Johnson LB Texas
15. M Williams WR USC

I suppose decent cases could be made for elevating certain guys who didn't make the Top 15 - therefore it makes sense to keep an eye on: Carnell Williams RB (17), Kyle Orton QB (18th), Dan Cody DE (19), Marlin Jackson (21) and Alex Smith QB (Not Listed).

And others still above the horizon line on my board would include: Jammal Brown T (30), Shaun Cody DT (34), David Baas G (36), Mike Patterson DT (42), Ronnie Brown RB (52) and Carlos Rogers CB (83)

If this board was Green's board - and he was true to it, he'd take Leinart. But my guess is that, by Draft Day, Dennis' board will look considerably different.

Still - if every team drafted according to the same board and Green adhered to Best Player, the Cards' draft could turn out to be something like: 8. Leinart QB, 40 - 44. Patterson DT, 72 -76. Carlos Rogers CB

Despite the Cards HORRIBLE QB situation, I'm not convinced Green would go after Rogers or Lienart. I just don't know why! Maybe target one in the second round. But those two will make a spash and if they're there.

Having Benson fall to that 8 spot - he'd have to be a strong candidate.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Can't wait for the combine this year, and the the NFL channel's wall to wall coverage.

Obviously this draft is not nearly as deep as 04's. The cardinals can't expect to have anywhere near the impact of that last year's draft had.

 

[az jam]

I don't think that neither Rodgers, Leinart or Alex Smith would be rated in Denny's book as a so called franchise qb. He surprised Viking fans and took Cullpepper with the 11th pick of the 2000 ( year?) draft even though he had MVP Cunningham and Jeff George as his backup. He stated that he had Culpepper number one on his board and will be a future franchise qb which he is. I really don't see him going qb on round one. I think he will stay with McCown, Navarre and sign an experienced qb.

But I have been wrong many times on trying to guess what Denny will do on the draft as players fall that he ends up grabing regardless of need.

 

[Russ Smith]

Kiper FWIW said on ESPN last night that Leinart should come out, and if he does that he will like go first and that Rodgers and Smith will fight it out to see who is the 2nd rated QB. A friend of mind subscribed to Kiper's pay stuff and he said in that Kiper said that Rodgers is the better pro prospect but that Smith is this years Philip Rivers, a QB that everyone has as their sleeper would like to get in the 2nd round pick, and ended up going MUCH higher in the real draft.

Look around, last year this time how many people here had Rivers as the guy they hoped to steal in round 2, a lot. Read other boards they're all saying they'd like to get Smith in round 2.

Kiper's comment was this year the 3rd QB picked had the best immediate success, if Rodgers goes 3rd this year, that may be true again.

Too early to tell, we don't even know who the coach and Gm of the 49ers is yet, since they have the first pick. This morning there's bunch of names being tossed around, Crennel, Pete Carroll, the interesting one I heard is Jeff Tedford, who just signed an extension. They went that route with Mariucci from Cal. Who the first pick is depends a lot on who the coach is in SF.

 

[WildBB]

I don't think that neither Rodgers, Leinart or Alex Smith would be rated in Denny's book as a so called franchise qb. He surprised Viking fans and took Cullpepper with the 11th pick of the 2000 ( year?) draft even though he had MVP Cunningham and Jeff George as his backup. He stated that he had Culpepper number one on his board and will be a future franchise qb which he is. I really don't see him going qb on round one. I think he will stay with McCown, Navarre and sign an experienced qb.

But I have been wrong many times on trying to guess what Denny will do on the draft as players fall that he ends up grabing regardless of need.

That being said - I do hope they address the QB of the future need with this draft. Sometime early.

 

[WildBB]

Kiper FWIW said on ESPN last night that Leinart should come out, and if he does that he will like go first and that Rodgers and Smith will fight it out to see who is the 2nd rated QB. A friend of mind subscribed to Kiper's pay stuff and he said in that Kiper said that Rodgers is the better pro prospect but that Smith is this years Philip Rivers, a QB that everyone has as their sleeper would like to get in the 2nd round pick, and ended up going MUCH higher in the real draft.

Look around, last year this time how many people here had Rivers as the guy they hoped to steal in round 2, a lot. Read other boards they're all saying they'd like to get Smith in round 2.

Kiper's comment was this year the 3rd QB picked had the best immediate success, if Rodgers goes 3rd this year, that may be true again.

Too early to tell, we don't even know who the coach and Gm of the 49ers is yet, since they have the first pick. This morning there's bunch of names being tossed around, Crennel, Pete Carroll, the interesting one I heard is Jeff Tedford, who just signed an extension. They went that route with Mariucci from Cal. Who the first pick is depends a lot on who the coach is in SF.

Kiper is all spin and hype. How about Lief. He's a promotion agency for top NFL talent, that's all. He gets payed to promote.

 

[Russ Smith]

Kiper is all spin and hype. How about Lief. He's a promotion agency for top NFL talent, that's all. He gets payed to promote.

I was driving home listening to the Orange Bowl on radio and on came a commercial for who knows what with spokesman, Mel Kiper Jr! I was pretty stunned.

I've always admired the guy, he was basically a guy like us, before the internet, who turned his obsession into a job and made a career for himself.
he's not always right, nobody is, but I do respect him.

 

[imaCafan]

Here's a mock and top 25 from Coyle.....

THE COYLE CORNER
by Frank Coyle, editor of the Draft Insider's Digest.
January 6, 2005

FIRST ROUND MOCK DRAFT FOR THE NFL DRAFT ‘05

1. San Francisco: Matt Leinart, QB, Southern California... 49ers are a total disaster on offense and Leinart would be a key addition.

2. Miami: Aaron Rodgers, QB, California... Dolphins will start over this offseason with a franchise caliber QB.

3. Cleveland: Antrel Rolle, CB, Miami... Browns looking to add a shutdown cornerback.

4. Chicago: Alex Barron, OT, Florida State... Bears want the stud tackle to play smash mouth football.

5. Tampa Bay: Carnell Williams, RB, Auburn... Gruden wants a complete tailback for his West Coast offense.

6. Tennessee: Braylon Edwards, WR, Michigan... Titans would love to add a playmaker for their struggling offense.

7. Oakland: Mike Williams, WR, Southern California... Raiders looking for big time playmaker after trading Jerry Rice.

8. Arizona: Marlin Jackson, CB, Michigan... Cards will continue to address a young emerging defense.

9. Washington: Marcus Spears, DE, LSU... Redskins will look to address their front four in this draft class.

10. Detroit: Erasmus James, DE, Wisconsin... Lions need to address their front four early this spring.

11. Dallas: David Pollack, DE, Georgia... Boys front four needs a big time edge pass rusher.

12. San Diego (from N.Y. Giants): Mark Clayton, WR, Oklahoma... Chargers looking for a true #1 receiver and Clayton is flying up the charts.

13. Houston: Marcus McNeil, OT, Auburn... Texans offensive line needs to be addressed at left tackle.

14. Carolina: Thomas Davis, FS, Georgia... Panthers defense needs tough run support players.

15. Kansas City: Shaun Cody, DT, Southern California... Chiefs defense is a total joke and needs a playmaker upfront.

16. New Orleans: Corey Webster, CB, LSU... Saints secondary gets toasted weekly the past five years.

17. Cincinnati: Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, Boston College... Bengals defense must get more pass pressure from their front four.

18. Minnesota: Derrick Johnson, LB, Texas... Vikings must improve on defense to rank among the top clubs.

19. St. Louis: Dan Cody, DE, Oklahoma... Rams defense has really missed Grant Wistrom this season.

20. Dallas (from Buffalo): Carlos Rogers, CB, Auburn... Cowboys would love to select this tough cover man.

21. Jacksonville: Cedric Benson, RB, Texas... Jaguars running back situation is showing age and lack of depth.

22. Baltimore: Travis Johnson, DT, Florida State... Ravens defense is looking for an inside force.

23. Seattle: Kevin Burnett, LB, Tennessee... Seahawks are showing age on this unit.

24. Green Bay: Eric Henderson, DE, Georgia Tech... Packers want to add a pass rushing playmaker.

25. Denver: Heath Miller, TE, Virginia... Broncos looking for a playmaker to stretch the field in the middle.

26. New York Jets: Justin Miller, CB, Clemson... Jets defense may address the secondary this spring.

27. Atlanta: A.J. Hawk, LB, Ohio State... Falcons backer unit would like to add this savvy playmaker.

28. San Diego: Jammal Brown, OT, Oklahoma... Charger’s offensive line is an area looking to add a young tackle.

29. Indianapolis: Anttaj Hawthorne, DT, Wisconsin... Colts defense is improved but needs additional playmakers.

30. New England: Donte Nickerson, SS, Oklahoma... Patriots want to add another blue chip defender for the secondary.

31. Philadelphia: Ronnie Brown, RB, Auburn... Eagles want a power tailback to balance their offense.

32. Pittsburgh: Loren Howard, DE, Northwestern... Steelers are building a tough young defense.

January 3, 2005

Top 25 Prospects for 2005....

1. * Matt Leinart, QB, 6-4, 220, Southern California
Looks capable of duplicating what Carson Palmer did as a Trojan.

2. * Aaron Rodgers, QB, 6-2, 210, California
Savvy junior passer shows fast development in all key areas of play.

3. Antrel Rolle, CB, 6-1, 200, Miami
Talented hard hitting cover man may be the best in this class.

4. Braylon Edwards, WR, 6-3, 210, Michigan
Big play receiver has benefited from his final season.

5. David Pollack, DE, 6-2, 270, Georgia
Tough playmaker with a great motor.

6. Marcus Spears, DE, 6-4,295, LSU
Tough physical defender will be a fine NFL lineman.

7. Carnell Williams, RB, 5-11, 205, Auburn
Quick athletic back has outstanding natural running skills.

8. Mark Clayton, WR, 5-11, 190, Oklahoma
Great playmaker with big play impact ability.

9. Cedric Benson, RB, 5-11, 220, Texas
Strong well rounded back has been very productive this season.

10. Marlin Jackson, CB, 6-1, 190, Michigan
Athletically gifted defender has all the skills to become a shutdown pro corner.

11. * Mike Williams, WR, 6-4, 225, Southern California
Talented young receiver will concentrate on getting ready for postseason.

12. Erasmus James, DE, 6-4, 265, Wisconsin
Athletic defender is a great pass rusher and the fastest rising defender in the nation.

13. Derrick Johnson, LB, 6-3, 225, Texas
Fast athletic linebacker has outstanding potential but concerns about inconsistencies.

14. Alex Barron, OT, 6-6, 310, Florida State
Massive hog lineman gets a strong push along the line.

15. * Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, 6-8, 250, Boston College
Big athletic pass rusher shows impact ability as a sack artist.

16. Corey Webster, CB, 6-0, 200, LSU
Well developed cover man carries an early NFL starting grade.

17. Shaun Cody, DT, 6-4, 290, Southern California
Athletic lineman could play inside and outside in the NFL.

18. * Thomas Davis, FS, 6-1, 220, Georgia
Physical junior safety is a force in just about every game.

19. Dan Cody, DE, 6-5, 270, Oklahoma
Rangy tough defensive end has come up big in key game situations.

20. * Heath Miller, TE, 6-5, 255, Virginia
Talented junior has the package to be a top NFL prospect.

21. Ronnie Brown, RB, 5-11, 230, Auburn
Tough well rounded back has been a model of consistency over his career.

22. Kevin Burnett, LB, 6-2, 235, Tennessee
Athletic playmaker has developed into a complete defender.

23. Donte Nicholson, SS, 6-2, 210, Oklahoma
Crushing tackler has responded in big games.

24. Travis Johnson, DT, 6-4, 300, Florida State
Athletic tackle has taken a huge step up as a senior.

25. * A.J. Hawk, LB, 6-2, 235, Ohio State
Instinctive junior defender has a great nose for the ball.

 

[Rocco]

Kiper is all spin and hype. How about Lief. He's a promotion agency for top NFL talent, that's all. He gets payed to promote.

Not sure about Kiper but you're right about agents paying draft services now to pimp thier clients before the draft. Don't believe everything you read on these services this year - or in the years to come.

 

[Jay Cardinal]

I like the Marlin Jackson pick. If the Cards fo CB with #8, I'm thinking Rolle or Jackson- I ouldn't use it on a different CB.

 

[Russ Smith]

On Mike Williams, I was reading something in the Mercury News that says the rumors are Mike has not stayed in real good shape this year and now has to prove to scouts that they're going to get the same guy who dominated for 2 years at USC. To be honest it's the first good or bad I've heard on him all year but sounds like he may not be in the best shape right now.

 

[Duckjake]

10. Detroit: Erasmus James, DE, Wisconsin... Lions need to address their front four early this spring.

Is this guy just throwing things out there to get something in print? Unless I missed something DE is one of Detroit's stronger positions:

Kalimba Edwards 3 years, Corey Redding 2 years, and James Hall 5 years.

Hall had 11.5 sacks last season. Edwards 4.5 and Redding 3.

 

[RobbleRobble]

Look around, last year this time how many people here had Rivers as the guy they hoped to steal in round 2, a lot. Read other boards they're all saying they'd like to get Smith in round 2.

You're right. I distinctly remember reading about a year ago that Manning and Roethlisberger were a lock as the top 2 QBs off the board and that Rivers and Losman were neck and neck as the third best QB. But Rivers was a guy a lot of people liked in the second round, and obviously, his stock went through the roof.

It wouldn't surprise me if Alex Smith's stock shot up the charts and he went in the top 10. It also wouldn't surprise me if he had a bad workout and fell to the second round. There is a lot of time between now and April.

 

[Doc Cardinal]

Marlin Jacksonwill be a fine pro safety.


He was toast in college as a CB and will be toast as a CB in the pros.

 

[Pariah]

21. Jacksonville: Cedric Benson, RB, Texas... Jaguars running back situation is showing age and lack of depth.

I find this one a little odd, too. Not that I think the Jags would rule out taking a RB--they might--but, Fred Taylor had a spectacular year and they just drafted Greg Jones last year.

 

[Skkorpion]

You're right. I distinctly remember reading about a year ago that Manning and Roethlisberger were a lock as the top 2 QBs off the board and that Rivers and Losman were neck and neck as the third best QB. But Rivers was a guy a lot of people liked in the second round, and obviously, his stock went through the roof.

It wouldn't surprise me if Alex Smith's stock shot up the charts and he went in the top 10. It also wouldn't surprise me if he had a bad workout and fell to the second round. There is a lot of time between now and April.

And one of us was touting Rivers as the #1 pick in the entire draft and I stand by my opinion that he will be a superior pro.

 

[Assface]

And one of us was touting Rivers as the #1 pick in the entire draft and I stand by my opinion that he will be a superior pro.

I wish he had gotten more spot time during the season. In the little bit of playing time he had he completed 5 of 8 passes (62.5%) for 33 yards, 1 TD and no interceptions for a 110.9 rating.

I heard Brees wants a long term contract with the Chargers. I wonder if he gets that and what it means for Rivers.

 

[danny l]

15. Shaun Cody (DT) to Chiefs- I don't think so. Although the Chiefs defense can't stop anybody, DT is one of the stronger positions on this D (IMO). They spent their #1 choice on DT 2 yrs. ago. The Chiefs will more likely go for CB, DE, Or LB with their 1st pick. I wonder if the people who make draft picks actually study the teams or someone on the internet says something and everyone else just picks up on it and adds it to their own draft predictions.

 

[Russ Smith]

15. Shaun Cody (DT) to Chiefs- I don't think so. Although the Chiefs defense can't stop anybody, DT is one of the stronger positions on this D (IMO). They spent their #1 choice on DT 2 yrs. ago. The Chiefs will more likely go for CB, DE, Or LB with their 1st pick. I wonder if the people who make draft picks actually study the teams or someone on the internet says something and everyone else just picks up on it and adds it to their own draft predictions.

I don't understand why Cody is getting so much hype all of a sudden. He's a terrific college player but how many 285 pound DT's do you see in the NFL?
He's either going to have to convert to DE, or bulk up, and when USC had him bulk up 2 years ago he really wasn't very good.

He's talented, but in the bowl game they were acting like he was a top 10 pick or something.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I don't understand why Cody is getting so much hype all of a sudden. He's a terrific college player but how many 285 pound DT's do you see in the NFL?
He's either going to have to convert to DE, or bulk up, and when USC had him bulk up 2 years ago he really wasn't very good.

He's talented, but in the bowl game they were acting like he was a top 10 pick or something.

Russ I asked my self that same question. He reminds me of another 'high-motor' low-talent guy. I cant say I have seen him a lot this year, but in the few games I did see he reminded me of a KVB, Chris Hovan type. And Kiper has him as like #8 on his draft board...

I dont get it

 

[ajcardfan]

On Mike Williams, I was reading something in the Mercury News that says the rumors are Mike has not stayed in real good shape this year and now has to prove to scouts that they're going to get the same guy who dominated for 2 years at USC. To be honest it's the first good or bad I've heard on him all year but sounds like he may not be in the best shape right now.

Mike Williams lost any chance of being a top ten pick when he couldn't play this year. No one will roll the dice on a guy who hasn't played more than a year that high in the draft no matter how good he is. If he's truly not in top shape, he'll be hard pressed to stay in the first round.

 

[Shane]

Mike Williams lost any chance of being a top ten pick when he couldn't play this year. No one will roll the dice on a guy who hasn't played more than a year that high in the draft no matter how good he is. If he's truly not in top shape, he'll be hard pressed to stay in the first round.

I agree!

 

[Russ Smith]

Mike Williams lost any chance of being a top ten pick when he couldn't play this year. No one will roll the dice on a guy who hasn't played more than a year that high in the draft no matter how good he is. If he's truly not in top shape, he'll be hard pressed to stay in the first round.

If he's out of shape he slips, but Eric Swann was what the 6th pick with no college experience. MW dominated on a great team for 2 years, was head shoulders better than Keary Colbert who had a great rookie year. if he's in shape he's a high first rounder easily, if he's not I agree slip city.

 

[WildBB]

And one of us was touting Rivers as the #1 pick in the entire draft and I stand by my opinion that he will be a superior pro.

Do you think Green would trade the #8 for him?

Here is another interesting draft senario for AZ. from Draft Blitz. I'd substitute B. Edwards for M. Williams though.

1. 49ers QB Matt Leinart, USC (assuming he is available)
2. Dolphins RB Cedric Benson, Texas (Saban has to generate offense)
3. Browns OT Alex Barron, FSU (A DEFINITE need)
4. Bears WR Mike Williams, USC (Adds biggie-sized punch)
5. Buccaneers LB Derrick Johnson, Texas (Good defense gets better)
6. Titans CB Antrel Rolle, Miami (Best corner in draft)
7. Raiders RB Cadillac Williams, Auburn (Raiders prize a stud RB)
8. Cardinals QB Aaron Rodgers, Cal (Cards thrilled to get their QB)
9. Redskins DE David Pollack, Georgia (Fills big need)
10. Lions SS Jamaal Brimmer, UNLV (Lions get their SS)
11. Cowboys QB Kyle Orton, Purdue (Big kid, underrated)
12. Chargers(via NYG) WR Braylon Edwards, Michigan (Future NFL star?)
13. Texans DE Marcus Spears, LSU (Good fit in Houston)
14. Panthers OG Elton Brown, Virginia (Many consider best OG)
15. Chiefs DE Mathias Kiwanuka, BC (Top rush end)
16. Saints S Thomas Davis, Georgia (best S in draft)
17. Bengals DE Eramus James, Wisconsin (James will solidify the DLine)
18. Vikings CB Marlin Jackson, Michigan (Mission: build a strong defense)
19. Rams OT Jamaal Brown, Oklahoma (Another super OT for the Rams)
20. Cowboys (via BUF) CB Carlos Rogers, Auburn (Outstanding CB, excels in big games)
21. Jaguars CB Corey Webster, LSU (Jags shore up defensive backfield)
22. Ravens WR Mark Clayton, Oklahoma (Boller needs target other than Heap)
23. Seahawks LB Lance Mitchell, Oklahoma (MLB is a need position)
24. Packers DT Anttaj Hawthorne, Wisconsin (DT considered over QB)
25. Broncos TE Heath Miller, Virginia (Finally, Shannon Sharpe's replacement?)
26. Jets OT Marcus McNeil, Auburn (Jets need a solid OT)
27. Falcons OG David Baas, Michigan (Versatile, good size)
28. Chargers LB Channing Crowder, Florida (Great LB w/even more potential)
29. Colts DT Mike Patterson, USC (tough guy in the middle to shore up the D)
30. Patriots CB Justin Miller, Clemson (Position of need)
31. Eagles RB Ronnie Brown, Auburn (Can do it all at RB)
32. Steelers DE Shaun Cody, USC

Looks like a real accurate call to me. I called those top 8 in another thread.

Notice 5 Cb's and 5 DE's taken in 1st round!