Warner comments on retirement:

[RugbyMuffin]

Uh huh. I suppose you approved of trading Boldin for what amounted to nothing.

Actually we used that pick to get Kerry Rhodes, at least I thought that is what the Cardinals did.

It also allowed the Cardinals to pick up Double Deuce.

Yet, I would still think keeping Boldin would have been better.

I mean Warner is pretty much making it clear that when they traded Boldin he decided it wasn't worth coming back.

Smart guy.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Boldin was unhappy and was not going to sign. If we signed him earlier it would have been fine but by the time we traded him, he was done in arizona. Sucks for him too as he was better here than he is there.

Maybe numbers wise, but I don't see the drop off in play making. He looked good in the playoffs this year, and made our 2ndary look foolish when we played them.

If Graves had any business savy at all, the Cardinals could have kept Boldin. It is not like Boldin is not the only player in the league to be unhappy with their team, and yet for some reason other organizations can repair those burnt bridges, and still get a player under contract. Unfortunately, this front office lacks that savy, and business sense.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

What I just read from that is our leader QUIT when his team needed him the most.

EDIT: Not just your comments, but Kurts included. Didn't mean to make this seem like an attack at you.

really?

Announced his retirement at a time that gave the Cardinals ample time to respond to his actions.

Warner had every right to retire, and played for this organization while hurt for a full 8 games, and played his heart and soul out for an organization who trade Boldin away FIRST, and showed all the signs of doing what it has done for 60 years before that, and let talent walk right our the front door.

Quit, my pootoot. That is ridiculous. The Cardinals organization are the ones that quit. They quit working hard to bring in and keep talent. They quit on the plan that they publically kept touting in keeping players, and they quit on the fans, with thier 30 million dollar nest egg in 2010.

To add injury to insult, with Marc Bulger available, they decided to stick with Derek Anderson, to save money.

It is part of the organization's job to make the Caridnals an attractive place to play for all players. They failed in 2010, miserably. And by doing so made all the nay-saying about their success true. That it was a fluke, a flash-in-the-pan, it was all Warner running the show, and that the Cardinals will be back to being the "same ol' Cardinals" soon enough.

If this organization wants respect, and to be looked at like a competitive organization then they have to put the work in. Period.

That being said......Calais Campbell signed yet ?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

They probably could have locked Dansby up to a much more reasonable contract if they didnt franchise him 2 years in a row.

Agreed.

And yet so many are so comfortable going the same route with Calais Campbell.

It is like this organization begs and pleads for the opportunity to make the same mistakes over, and over.

Thus why they are still the same ol' Cardinals.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Kurt retired before the fire sale so his point is moot since his retirement probably played a big part in the Bidwill's not breaking the bank to support Matt freaking Leinart.

EXACTLY what I was thinking....

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I disagree. Kurt busted his ass for the Cardinals. He even offered to give up some of his salary (I believe a mil) to re-sign Q.

Which was and still is against the NFLPA rules. He was saying the right things there without the possibility of follow through.

Our best years were with Kurt at the helm, regardless of how he feels about how the organization handled it's players

This cannot be denied nor argued though...

 

[Duckjake]

Maybe numbers wise, but I don't see the drop off in play making. He looked good in the playoffs this year, and made our 2ndary look foolish when we played them.

If Graves had any business savy at all, the Cardinals could have kept Boldin. It is not like Boldin is the only player in the league to be unhappy with their team, and yet for some reason other organizations can repair those burnt bridges, and still get a player under contract. Unfortunately, this front office lacks that savy, and business sense.

Right. The Cards have had too many situations like this. There has to be something the team can do to stop having all these contentious circumstances.

 

[Totally_Red]

Boldin was unhappy and was not going to sign. If we signed him earlier it would have been fine but by the time we traded him, he was done in arizona. Sucks for him too as he was better here than he is there.

That situation was a tragedy for the Cardinals IMO. If there was ever a guy you'd go the extra mile for it was Q. I mean he was out recruiting players like Edge to make the franchise better and got his face rearranged at the end of a blowout game in NJ. He was and still is a warrior and the Cardinals should have found a way to make him happy IMO.

But once the well was poisoned, he did not handle it well. After that he hung around another year out of deference to Kurt, but was obviously an unhappy camper and the two sides needed to part ways.

That was the kind of situation that a good franchise will do a "lessons learned" and not let happen again.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Uh huh. I suppose you approved of trading Boldin for what amounted to nothing.

The return on the trade got us Kerry Rhodes and allowed us to move up and get D-Wash. To each his own definition of nothing.

 

[slinslin]

I think that Kurt Warner is somewhat jealous of Peyton Manning with all the stuff he said about Peyton and the Cards.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The return on the trade got us Kerry Rhodes and allowed us to move up and get D-Wash. To each his own definition of nothing.

Correct.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Agreed.

And yet so many are so comfortable going the same route with Calais Campbell.

It is like this organization begs and pleads for the opportunity to make the same mistakes over, and over.

Thus why they are still the same ol' Cardinals.

Right. Let's simply ignore that the day Calvin Pace signed his mega contract with the Jets, Karlos said that he wanted more, and never varied on that point for the next two years. I don't recall anyone (perhaps you were the exception) who believed that the Pace deal was reasonable for an inside linebacker.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Right. The Cards have had too many situations like this. There has to be something the team can do to stop having all these contentious circumstances.

Whoops!

bad grammar alert.

That should say: "Boldin is not"

 

[az240zz]

all this about a guy who whole history is to speak the truth. And I think we are seeing the same situation happening with Campbell. The guy should have been signed by the middle of the season or renegotiated last year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

this thread is high comedy. we have a bunch of people saying that Kurt's totally wrong and it's all Dansby, Q, Rolle and Pace's fault that they're gone... even though most of them were never offered contract extensions (sans Q) or dealt with proactively to keep them from getting to FA... and yet, we're once again, looking at two of our best young players about to hit FA in CC and Marshall, who were never offered contract extensions to keep them from hitting FA.

this Cardinals team has almost zero foresight... they sit back, usually let the market dictate what someone's worth (which is always more than it should be) and then end up shocked with how much they get. Bottom line, most good teams don't CONTINUALLY let the overwhelming majority of their young talent hit FA. Good teams are able to consistently identify if those guys are worth another deal and act accordingly, with contract extensions so they don't end up in the revolving door policy we seem to love.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

this thread is high comedy. we have a bunch of people saying that Kurt's totally wrong and it's all Dansby, Q, Rolle and Pace's fault that they're gone... even though most of them were never offered contract extensions (sans Q) or dealt with proactively to keep them from getting to FA... and yet, we're once again, looking at two of our best young players about to hit FA in CC and Marshall, who were never offered contract extensions to keep them from hitting FA.

this Cardinals team has almost zero foresight... they sit back, usually let the market dictate what someone's worth (which is always more than it should be) and then end up shocked with how much they get. Bottom line, most good teams don't CONTINUALLY let the overwhelming majority of their young talent hit FA. Good teams are able to consistently identify if those guys are worth another deal and act accordingly, with contract extensions so they don't end up in the revolving door policy we seem to love.

Not sure how anyone can counter this....

 

[82CardsGrad]

this Cardinals team has almost zero foresight... they sit back, usually let the market dictate what someone's worth (which is always more than it should be) and then end up shocked with how much they get. Bottom line, most good teams don't CONTINUALLY let the overwhelming majority of their young talent hit FA. Good teams are able to consistently identify if those guys are worth another deal and act accordingly, with contract extensions so they don't end up in the revolving door policy we seem to love.

You mean like A-Dub, Dockett, Fitz & Sendlien? I don't think CC's going anywhere... same for Marshall.

And hasn't the Q thing been beaten to a pulp already? The Card's made a decision not to dump a HUGE portion of their cap into the WR position. I get that. They chose Fitz over Q. I get that and agree with it.
As for Rolle - that one is debatable... personally, I was not sad to see him leave as I just don't believe he's that good. And Pace? Really? The dude had one decent year with us (which just happened to be his contract year). Other than that one year - he SUCKED. Sure, it's easy to look back now after he's put up a few good years with the Jets and hammer the Cards for not keeping him. However, at the time, the Cards made the right choice given the data available...

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You mean like A-Dub, Dockett, Fitz & Sendlien? I don't think CC's going anywhere... same for Marshall.

And hasn't the Q thing been beaten to a pulp already? The Card's made a decision not to dump a HUGE portion of their cap into the WR position. I get that. They chose Fitz over Q. I get that and agree with it.
As for Rolle - that one is debatable... personally, I was not sad to see him leave as I just don't believe he's that good. And Pace? Really? The dude had one decent year with us (which just happened to be his contract year). Other than that one year - he SUCKED. Sure, it's easy to look back now after he's put up a few good years with the Jets and hammer the Cards for not keeping him. However, at the time, the Cards made the right choice given the data available...

He did mention young talent, so you can throw A-Dub and Fitzgerald out there.

You can point to Dockett as one shining example (pro). Sendlein is still in the lower half of the league for his position, IMO. They did re-sign him though, so I guess you could say two.

The norm is not re-signing their own young talent.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You mean like A-Dub, Dockett, Fitz

three players is not a core... and those were NO BRAINERS. Teams don't get credit for having the "foresight" to re-sign multiple Pro-Bowlers. Good teams are able to to identify the up and comers and not let them hit FA... or get to the point that they are Pro-Bowlers before they do so. the idea that our core of the Super Bowl team was limited to THREE players just doesn't wash with me. again, we say we want to run a Steelers model of efficiency... three years after their Super Bowl victory over us, they still had 17 of the same starters. we had something like 5.

& Sendlien?

Sendlien didn't get a contract extension... he was a bottom tiered FA and got paid as such. the idea that he's in a category the same as Dansby, CC, Rolle, Pace, etc. is laughable.

I don't think CC's going anywhere...

I don't either... not this year anyway. We'll franchise him and pay him an outrageous sum of money that will eat up our cap because we didn't have the foresight to extend him at a reasonable deal before he completely blew up.

same for Marshall.

we'll see.

And hasn't the Q thing been beaten to a pulp already? The Card's made a decision not to dump a HUGE portion of their cap into the WR position. I get that. They chose Fitz over Q. I get that and agree with it.

to be honest, I don't have a problem with this either... but replacing Q with Breaston was one thing... replacing with breaston with NOTHING was another. that move has had a trickle down effect.

As for Rolle - that one is debatable... personally, I was not sad to see him leave as I just don't believe he's that good. And Pace? Really? The dude had one decent year with us (which just happened to be his contract year). Other than that one year - he SUCKED. Sure, it's easy to look back now after he's put up a few good years with the Jets and hammer the Cards for not keeping him. However, at the time, the Cards made the right choice given the data available...

Pace was being played out of position for years and the first time he got in a 3-4, he started to flourish. the idea that the Cardinals COULDN'T see what his potential was and get him signed to an extension during the season before he blew up in FA just doesn't wash with me. Guys WANT that next contract because their careers can end any second and from everything I remember, they never even discussed an extension with Pace once it was clear he was a player at OLB. the Cardinals let the market...

eh, forget it... y'all are right and Kurt Warner's wrong. The cardinals do a great job of keeping their young talent together. It's why they've been so successful in 20 of the last 23 years, while consistently watching the rest of the league deem their FAs the best available year after year.

 

[Duckjake]

He did mention young talent, so you can throw A-Dub and Fitzgerald out there.

You can point to Dockett as one shining example (pro). Sendlein is still in the lower half of the league for his position, IMO. They did re-sign him though, so I guess you could say two.

The norm is not re-signing their own young talent.

The norm is that the vast majority of their young talent hasn't been any good. At least according to the Bidwill defenders.

Again losing young experienced guys right or wrong costs draft picks and wins. To me the Cards having to use the 2 draft picks from the Boldin trade to replace Dansby and Rolle is not really getting anything in return.



Rhodes was a bargain and rightly so. I don't know why people think he's so great. The Defense in 2010 with him was the worst since 2003 and the Defense in 2011 was better while he was out injured than it was when he was playing.

 

[kerouac9]

this thread is high comedy. we have a bunch of people saying that Kurt's totally wrong and it's all Dansby, Q, Rolle and Pace's fault that they're gone... even though most of them were never offered contract extensions (sans Q) or dealt with proactively to keep them from getting to FA... and yet, we're once again, looking at two of our best young players about to hit FA in CC and Marshall, who were never offered contract extensions to keep them from hitting FA.

this Cardinals team has almost zero foresight... they sit back, usually let the market dictate what someone's worth (which is always more than it should be) and then end up shocked with how much they get. Bottom line, most good teams don't CONTINUALLY let the overwhelming majority of their young talent hit FA. Good teams are able to consistently identify if those guys are worth another deal and act accordingly, with contract extensions so they don't end up in the revolving door policy we seem to love.

I can't really fault the Cards for Marshall, although I've been beating the "Extend Calais Campbell" drum longer than anyone here.

Marshall had a good little year here, but most of his impact was as a safety. There may be a huge gap between what the Cards and Marshall think he's worth--would you pay Marshall an Antrel Rolle-valued contract? I think he'll be an interesting character in free agency, and I think he might be a target of the New England Patriots, who are desperate for defensive backs with talent and have been using Devin McCourty in a similar role all year.

But if Marshall wants to be a starting cornerback in the NFL and get paid the $7+ million a year (Jonathan Joseph got five years, $48+ million last offseason) that a starting CB makes, then he's as good as gone.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

And hasn't the Q thing been beaten to a pulp already? The Card's made a decision not to dump a HUGE portion of their cap into the WR position. I get that.

You do?

I would understand this thinking if the money was actually used for something. What and where did that money that they were not going to dump into the WR position go ? It certainly didn't go to any players, or positions.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I can't really fault the Cards for Marshall, although I've been beating the "Extend Calais Campbell" drum longer than anyone here.

Marshall had a good little year here, but most of his impact was as a safety. There may be a huge gap between what the Cards and Marshall think he's worth--would you pay Marshall an Antrel Rolle-valued contract? I think he'll be an interesting character in free agency, and I think he might be a target of the New England Patriots, who are desperate for defensive backs with talent and have been using Devin McCourty in a similar role all year.

But if Marshall wants to be a starting cornerback in the NFL and get paid the $7+ million a year (Jonathan Joseph got five years, $48+ million last offseason) that a starting CB makes, then he's as good as gone.

Well at least with Marshall there is some reasoning on letting him go. I am not saying it is good reasoning but at least there is a debatable excuse with Toler, Johnson, and Jefferson on the roster.

Calais Campbell, not being signed at this point and time ?

It is a embarrassing. The best 3-4 DE in the league, and the Cardinals take a "wait and see" attitude. Wait and see for what ? See if something by chance gives them a reason to not pay the man, and let him walk.

It is a frickin' joke that has gotten really really old.

This is why they are the SAME OL' CARDINALS!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

The norm is that the vast majority of their young talent hasn't been any good. At least according to the Bidwill defenders.

Again losing young experienced guys right or wrong costs draft picks and wins. To me the Cards having to use the 2 draft picks from the Boldin trade to replace Dansby and Rolle is not really getting anything in return.



Rhodes was a bargain and rightly so. I don't know why people think he's so great. The Defense in 2010 with him was the worst since 2003 and the Defense in 2011 was better while he was out injured than it was when he was playing.

Seems counter-productive to use that as logic. Their picks have been low and Bidwill is the one who chooses these picks.

'It's not my fault I chose these people and thought they were talented when they weren't.'

Doesn't fly with me.

 

[cardsfanmd]

If we had re-signed Rolle and Dansby to the deals they ended up getting, there's no way in hell we would have the money to extend Campbell or go after Manning. We also tried to pay them both but Rolle just didn't want to be here and Dansby made no bones about wanting as much as he could get and not caring about ANYTHING else. He loved being tagged and said so on numerous occasions so I dont know why anyone is acting like it was an insult to him. We got Rhodes and a pick for Boldin (who didn't want to be here) and he's better than Rolle so I'm good We never would've drafted D-Wash either and he's already better than Dansby IMO. I like what the team did.