Warner comments on retirement:

[82CardsGrad]

three players is not a core... and those were NO BRAINERS. Teams don't get credit for having the "foresight" to re-sign multiple Pro-Bowlers. Good teams are able to to identify the up and comers and not let them hit FA... or get to the point that they are Pro-Bowlers before they do so. the idea that our core of the Super Bowl team was limited to THREE players just doesn't wash with me. again, we say we want to run a Steelers model of efficiency... three years after their Super Bowl victory over us, they still had 17 of the same starters. we had something like 5.

These days, how many teams are able to retain their very top talent over extended periods of times?? I thought I heard that the Pats only have 6 players on their entire roster that were on their roster when they lost to the Giants in the Super Bowl back in 2008!

Sendlien didn't get a contract extension... he was a bottom tiered FA and got paid as such. the idea that he's in a category the same as Dansby, CC, Rolle, Pace, etc. is laughable.

Sendlein has played in 78 games since 2007, starting in all but 12 (his rookie year). Say what you want about him, however, there aren't many players at any position who have played and/or started in that many games at any position for any team in the league, let alone the Cards.

to be honest, I don't have a problem with this either... but replacing Q with Breaston was one thing... replacing with breaston with NOTHING was another. that move has had a trickle down effect.

I kinda agree - though, it's clear the Cards were placing a ton of faith in Doucet and Roberts... which appears to have been a miscalculation.

Pace was being played out of position for years and the first time he got in a 3-4, he started to flourish. the idea that the Cardinals COULDN'T see what his potential was and get him signed to an extension during the season before he blew up in FA just doesn't wash with me. Guys WANT that next contract because their careers can end any second and from everything I remember, they never even discussed an extension with Pace once it was clear he was a player at OLB. the Cardinals let the market...

eh, forget it... y'all are right and Kurt Warner's wrong. The cardinals do a great job of keeping their young talent together. It's why they've been so successful in 20 of the last 23 years, while consistently watching the rest of the league deem their FAs the best available year after year.

I'm only addressing this thread in the context of the Whiz era. I honestly don't care what transpired b.w. (before Whiz) as IMHO, with Whiz this team has operated and performed in an entirely different manner.

 

[52brandon]

Sendlein has played in 78 games since 2007, starting in all but 12 (his rookie year). Say what you want about him, however, there aren't many players at any position who have played and/or started in that many games at any position for any team in the league, let alone the Cards.

Sendlein is underrated. I believe he was ranked in the top 3 pass-blocking centers in the NFL, dunno about run-blocking though (the only stats I saw were top and bottom 5 for OL positions. And Brown and Keith were both bottom 5)

 

[Chopper0080]

The Cardinals biggest issue as a front office is handling non first round draft picks who out-perform their contracts, and navigating poorly the structured contracts of high first rounders. Believe it or not, most of the Cardinals best players have been players not drafted in the first round. Because of this, the Cardinals are constantly having to manage situations where young players are being underpaid in relation to their performance and then we low ball them when it is time to restructure pushing them in the FA market where they natuurally get overpaid. Dansby, just like Campbell now, flashed great ability early, but was young and his future wasn't defined. Instead of trusting their initial scouting and judgement, the Cardinals waited to see more to reinforce their long term opinions on Dansby. After that, Dansby was resigned to receive his franchise tag dollars until the day came when his tag price would be too high. Then, it was his turn to get paid.

Boldin out performed his contract.

Rolle was paid CB dollars and instead of restructing his contract when they moved him to safety, they gave him the opportunity to hit his bonus, and he became to expensive to keep. Rolle left because the Cardinals painted themselves into a corner with his rookie contract. They did the same with Fitz, however that turned out better in the end.

Regardless, at some point in time the Cardinals will have to evaluate how they handle rookie picks, and develop a plan to specifically handle over performing and under performing players in relation to where they were drafted. Until this happens, we will continue to have the same problems.

 

[kerouac9]

If we had re-signed Rolle and Dansby to the deals they ended up getting, there's no way in hell we would have the money to extend Campbell or go after Manning. We also tried to pay them both but Rolle just didn't want to be here and Dansby made no bones about wanting as much as he could get and not caring about ANYTHING else. He loved being tagged and said so on numerous occasions so I dont know why anyone is acting like it was an insult to him. We got Rhodes and a pick for Boldin (who didn't want to be here) and he's better than Rolle so I'm good We never would've drafted D-Wash either and he's already better than Dansby IMO. I like what the team did.

Sorry, MD, but this is the case with every player in the NFL. You talk or listen to any player in the league, and they'll tell you that they go where the money is. They'll play for whomever pays them the most to do so. If that means that Peyton Manning gets paid $15 million in 2012 to be an Oakland Raider instead of $14 million to be an Arizona Cardinal, that's exactly what he'll do.

Chopper is right on about how the Cards handle contracts. I say that they're hoping that their young stars underperform in contract years to drive down their price tags, but it's six of one, a half dozen of the other.

The difference with Rolle and Boldin was that they were the second-best players at their positions on the roster, but they were due a contract after the better guys had signed their extensions (Wilson and Fitzgerald). Because more time had passed (contract inflation), Boldin and Rolle felt like they deserved the same or more as the other guys. The team could make the arugment to Boldin that Fitz deserved more, but he couldn't admit that to himself or anyone else. Rolle probably deserved a bigger deal than Wilson got just five or six months before, but the Cards couldn't pay that to a one-year-wonder at a new position.

Dansby was just an all-around cluster to the point that Dansby felt that he wasn't being respected by the organization or promoted to the rest of the league (and rightly so).

 

[52brandon]

The Cardinals biggest issue as a front office is handling non first round draft picks who out-perform their contracts, and navigating poorly the structured contracts of high first rounders. Believe it or not, most of the Cardinals best players have been players not drafted in the first round. Because of this, the Cardinals are constantly having to manage situations where young players are being underpaid in relation to their performance and then we low ball them when it is time to restructure pushing them in the FA market where they natuurally get overpaid. Dansby, just like Campbell now, flashed great ability early, but was young and his future wasn't defined. Instead of trusting their initial scouting and judgement, the Cardinals waited to see more to reinforce their long term opinions on Dansby. After that, Dansby was resigned to receive his franchise tag dollars until the day came when his tag price would be too high. Then, it was his turn to get paid.

Boldin out performed his contract.

Rolle was paid CB dollars and instead of restructing his contract when they moved him to safety, they gave him the opportunity to hit his bonus, and he became to expensive to keep. Rolle left because the Cardinals painted themselves into a corner with his rookie contract. They did the same with Fitz, however that turned out better in the end.

Regardless, at some point in time the Cardinals will have to evaluate how they handle rookie picks, and develop a plan to specifically handle over performing and under performing players in relation to where they were drafted. Until this happens, we will continue to have the same problems.

I thought Rolle was our first round pick that year? I remember him being considered a bust his rookie year as CB, it wasn't until they moved him to safety that he was considered good

 

[52brandon]

Sorry, MD, but this is the case with every player in the NFL. You talk or listen to any player in the league, and they'll tell you that they go where the money is. They'll play for whomever pays them the most to do so. If that means that Peyton Manning gets paid $15 million in 2012 to be an Oakland Raider instead of $14 million to be an Arizona Cardinal, that's exactly what he'll do.

I disagree. Ray Lewis took less to stay a Raven. I believe A-Dub did similar earlier in his career as well. Obviously, if you're talking 2x the salary, loyalty only goes so far. But some players will make monetary concessions to be where they want to be

 

[kerouac9]

I disagree. Ray Lewis took less to stay a Raven. I believe A-Dub did similar earlier in his career as well. Obviously, if you're talking 2x the salary, loyalty only goes so far. But some players will make monetary concessions to be where they want to be

Based on what? Links?

A-Dub signed his extension in June with an entire year remaining on his deal. He had no idea what his market value was when that extension was signed.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I'm only addressing this thread in the context of the Whiz era. I honestly don't care what transpired b.w. (before Whiz) as IMHO, with Whiz this team has operated and performed in an entirely different manner.

I find that logic to be very faulty. It is still the same people holding the purse strings, and having final say on what goes on.

If that wasn't the case then when Whiz asked to go after Marc Bulger in 2010 the Cardinals would have done so.

 

[Cheesebeef]

These days, how many teams are able to retain their very top talent over extended periods of times?? I thought I heard that the Pats only have 6 players on their entire roster that were on their roster when they lost to the Giants in the Super Bowl back in 2008!

that team was VERY old, especially on defense. They had already kept the overwhelming majority of their core for five or more years. Terrible example to me... especially when you consider that the Pats have shown the ability to reload when they lose players... as opposed to us.

Sendlein has played in 78 games since 2007, starting in all but 12 (his rookie year). Say what you want about him, however, there aren't many players at any position who have played and/or started in that many games at any position for any team in the league, let alone the Cards.

and yet, did we hear of one other team take a whiff of him? Sorry, I just can't put a guy who had no heat from anyone in the league in a category as proof that the Cardinals keep their really good young talent.

I kinda agree - though, it's clear the Cards were placing a ton of faith in Doucet and Roberts... which appears to have been a miscalculation.

the Cardinals ALWAYS place a ton of faith in guys who have shown to given them no reason to when they jettison players who have already proven their worth. the Doucet/Roberts thing is exactly what Kurt's talking about.

I'm only addressing this thread in the context of the Whiz era. I honestly don't care what transpired b.w. (before Whiz) as IMHO, with Whiz this team has operated and performed in an entirely different manner.

82... what era do you think Warner was talking about? He's WAS the Wiz era. I mean, how can you possibly say the above when within 2 years of getting to the Super Bowl, they gutted 17 of 22 starters... a lot of them YOUNG players... or forced leaders to retire because they felt the weight of the world on their shoulders because of the revolving door is more than a little confusing to me.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Cardinals biggest issue as a front office is handling non first round draft picks who out-perform their contracts, and navigating poorly the structured contracts of high first rounders. Believe it or not, most of the Cardinals best players have been players not drafted in the first round. Because of this, the Cardinals are constantly having to manage situations where young players are being underpaid in relation to their performance and then we low ball them when it is time to restructure pushing them in the FA market where they natuurally get overpaid. Dansby, just like Campbell now, flashed great ability early, but was young and his future wasn't defined. Instead of trusting their initial scouting and judgement, the Cardinals waited to see more to reinforce their long term opinions on Dansby. After that, Dansby was resigned to receive his franchise tag dollars until the day came when his tag price would be too high. Then, it was his turn to get paid.

Boldin out performed his contract.

Rolle was paid CB dollars and instead of restructing his contract when they moved him to safety, they gave him the opportunity to hit his bonus, and he became to expensive to keep. Rolle left because the Cardinals painted themselves into a corner with his rookie contract. They did the same with Fitz, however that turned out better in the end.

Regardless, at some point in time the Cardinals will have to evaluate how they handle rookie picks, and develop a plan to specifically handle over performing and under performing players in relation to where they were drafted. Until this happens, we will continue to have the same problems.

bingo.

 

[82CardsGrad]

that team was VERY old, especially on defense. They had already kept the overwhelming majority of their core for five or more years. Terrible example to me... especially when you consider that the Pats have shown the ability to reload when they lose players... as opposed to us.

82... what era do you think Warner was talking about? He's WAS the Wiz era. I mean, how can you possibly say the above when within 2 years of getting to the Super Bowl, they gutted 17 of 22 starters... a lot of them YOUNG players... or forced leaders to retire because they felt the weight of the world on their shoulders because of the revolving door is more than a little confusing to me.

I don't have time to do the research... however, my hunch is that, over the past 5-7 years, Super Bowl teams have, for the most part, lost many of their super bowl starters as well. It's the nature of the league.
With regard to the Wiz era and losing 17 of the 22 super bowl starters within 2 years... again, not sure this is that much of an anomaly - and, don't forget that almost all of those guys weren't Whiz guys. They were Denny guys.

 

[52brandon]

Based on what? Links?

A-Dub signed his extension in June with an entire year remaining on his deal. He had no idea what his market value was when that extension was signed.

I did say earlier in his career. It was before Warner if I remember correctly. I don't think I saved the article 10 years ago...

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't have time to do the research... however, my hunch is that, over the past 5-7 years, Super Bowl teams have, for the most part, lost many of their super bowl starters as well. It's the nature of the league.
With regard to the Wiz era and losing 17 of the 22 super bowl starters within 2 years... again, not sure this is that much of an anomaly - and, don't forget that almost all of those guys weren't Whiz guys. They were Denny guys.

within 2 YEARS? You're not sure that's not an anomaly? The Steelers THIS season still had something like 18 of 22 starters still on their team... not from last year's Super Bowl... but from the 2009 Super Bowl where we played them. Super Bowl teams do lose starters, but most teams that get to Super Bowl don't lose that many players AND those teams are MUCH better than we are at replacing them. And yes, there are teams that DO lose players if they are, but you can bet your ass they weren't completely gutted while sitting on 30 million dollars as they were gutted and did nothing about it... and then sat on another 8 million dollars the next year as well.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

within 2 YEARS? You're not sure that's not an anomaly? The Steelers THIS season still had something like 18 of 22 starters still on their team... not from last year's Super Bowl... but from the 2009 Super Bowl where we played them. Super Bowl teams do lose starters, but most teams that get to Super Bowl don't lose that many players AND those teams are MUCH better than we are at replacing them. And yes, there are teams that DO lose players if they are, but you can bet your ass they weren't completely gutted while sitting on 30 million dollars as they were gutted and did nothing about it... and then sat on another 8 million dollars the next year as well.

How many of those Cards you referenced are still in the league?


CARDS 2008

Quarterbacks
• 2 Brian St. Pierre
• 7 Matt Leinart
• 13 Kurt Warner
Running Backs
• 34 Tim Hightower
• 32 Edgerrin James
• 45 Reagan Maui'a FB
• 46 Anthony Sherman
Wide Receivers
• 11 Larry Fitzgerald
• 15 Steve Breaston RS
• 28 J.J. Arrington KR
• 81 Anquan Boldin
• 80 Early Doucet
• 87 Sean Morey ST
Tight Ends
• 89 Ben Patrick
• 82 Leonard Pope
• 84 Jerame Tuman
Offensive Linemen
• 61 Elton Brown G
• 75 Levi Brown T
• 69 Mike Gandy T
• 72 Brandon Keith T
• 76 Deuce Lutui G
• 70 Pat Ross C
• 63 Lyle Sendlein C
• 68 Elliot Vallejo T
• 74 Reggie Wells G
Defensive Linemen
• 78 Alan Branch NT
• 93 Calais Campbell DE
• 90 Darnell Dockett DT
• 91 Kenny Iwebema DE
• 97 Bryan Robinson DT
• 94 Antonio Smith DE
• 98 Gabe Watson NT
Linebackers
• 52 Monty Beisel ILB
• 92 Bertrand Berry OLB/DE
• 58 Karlos Dansby ILB
• 54 Gerald Hayes ILB
• 57 Victor Hobson ILB
• 55 Travis LaBoy OLB/DE
• 56 Chike Okeafor OLB
• 51 Pago Togafau ILB
Defensive Backs
• 27 Michael Adams CB
• 20 Ralph Brown CB
• 47 Aaron Francisco SS
• 25 Eric Green CB
• 26 Roderick Hood CB
• 29 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB
• 21 Antrel Rolle FS
• 22 Matt Ware FS
• 24 Adrian Wilson SS
Special Teams
• 5 Ben Graham P
• 48 Nathan Hodel LS
• 1 Neil Rackers K
Reserve Lists
• 53 Clark Haggans OLB (IR)
• 95 Ali Highsmith ILB (IR)
• 64 Scott Peters C/G (IR)
• 83 Stephen Spach TE (IR)
Practice Squad
• 43 Eduardo Castañeda ILB Int'l
• 73 Keilen Dykes DE
• 23 Wilrey Fontenot CB
• 86 Onrea Jones WR
• 38 Dennis Keyes FS
• 19 Lance Long WR
• 60 Enoka Lucas C/G
• 59 Kelly Poppinga ILB
• 49 Alex Shor TE