Warner Takes Aim; Hits Foot

[moklerman]

it is up to them. but if it was guaranteed hed get 4,000 yards and 30 TD's then obviously they wouldn't have a problem paying the man

And I think that's a big part of the conflict right now. By not offering top 5 money, I think Warner feels that the team is still just waiting for any reason to put in Leinart and not being fully behind him. Not to mention the Boldin situation.

 

[IAWarnerFan]

Only if we're talking about a long term deal. 1-2 years for Peyton money isn't outrageous because at worst, the Cardinals are going to get stuck with 1-2 bad years of contract they have to eat. I mean, that's really worst case scenario. Warner might get hurt but so might Peyton.

The point is, Warner wants to be paid like Peyton because he's putting up better numbers than Peyton. He plays better in the playoffs and he's only got one contract left. If he was asking for a 3, 4, 5 year contract it would be lunacy. But $14M for 4,000 yards and 30 TD's? That's not outrageous at all.

Peyton has never struggled or had to fight over a starting spot like Warner has either. A few years ago most teams were probably willing to give up on him. There's more uncertainty in signing Kurt Warner compared to signing Peyton Manning and that's why Manning should get more $.

 

[Cody]

And I think that's a big part of the conflict right now. By not offering top 5 money, I think Warner feels that the team is still just waiting for any reason to put in Leinart and not being fully behind him. Not to mention the Boldin situation.

warner needs to realize he is playing like a top 5 paid QB..but at his age he isn't going to get the money

 

[IAWarnerFan]

warner needs to realize he is playing like a top 5 paid QB..but at his age he isn't going to get the money

 

[the_future23]

I am just perplexed because what can you do with $24 million that you can't do with $20 million.

 

[perivolaki]

The point is, Warner wants to be paid like Peyton because he's putting up better numbers than Peyton. He plays better in the playoffs and he's only got one contract left. If he was asking for a 3, 4, 5 year contract it would be lunacy. But $14M for 4,000 yards and 30 TD's? That's not outrageous at all.

Then if he can find some one to pay that fine. The market is what the market is. It doesn't look like there are any teams willing to pay a 38 yo quarterback 14M. Why bid against yourself?

Some reporter asked some NFL personnel guys what Warner was worth. One said 6-8M and another said 8-10M. So the contract the Cards are offering seems to be on the high end of what personnel guys think he is worth at his age.

 

[IAWarnerFan]

I am just perplexed because what can you do with $24 million that you can't do with $20 million.

That's $4M! You can sign a quality backup for that and maybe even a starter.

 

[IAWarnerFan]

Then if he can find some one to pay that fine. The market is what the market is. It doesn't look like there are any teams willing to pay a 38 yo quarterback 14M. Why bid against yourself?

Some reporter asked some NFL personnel guys what Warner was worth. One said 6-8M and another said 8-10M. So the contract the Cards are offering seems to be on the high end of what personnel guys think he is worth at his age.

Not fine! I want Kurt Warner as a Cardinal, it's a moot point anyways tho. You'r right he probably won't find what we are offering elsewhere and as stron a shot at a Super Bowl to boot.

 

[moklerman]

Some reporter asked some NFL personnel guys what Warner was worth. One said 6-8M and another said 8-10M. So the contract the Cards are offering seems to be on the high end of what personnel guys think he is worth at his age.

Anonymous, disinterested parties, of a 2 person sample aside, I think their evaluation has to be questioned if they consider Warner and Collins roughly equivalent. It would be nice to see what they think of other players values as well.

I think we all know Adam Schefter and Mike Lombardi of NFLN, right? They both agreed that the Cardinals need to do what it takes to sign Warner. Period.

So are their opinions any more or less valid than these NFL personnel guys(whatever that means)? $6-8M for Warner? He should take a pay cut from last year?

 

[Totally_Red]

I think some of you guys take this stuff too seriously. When Warner takes the field in game 1 for us, no one is going to care about any of this. Just like no one gave a damn last September about all the posturing and things said during Fitz' renegoitation last year.

Exactly! The deal will get done within the next week IMO. The Cardinals will slightly increase the total package(maybe to 22 million) and the guaranteed portion (possibly to 11 million) and Kurt will sign the deal and everyone will be smiling from ear to ear.

 

[Perfectionist]

I want Warner starting next year, but if he goes and signs for 14 million with the Niners I'm not going to blame that on Graves, I'm going to blame that on business and hope that we can use that money to put more talent around Leinart.

I agree TigToad, but if Warner is allowed to walk (right or wrong) the vast majority of fans and media will say it is the same ol Cards and the same ol cheap Bidwills.

They will be hollering that it is '98 all over again.

 

[Redsz]

I think we all know Adam Schefter and Mike Lombardi of NFLN, right? They both agreed that the Cardinals need to do what it takes to sign Warner. Period.

I saw that and it was pretty lite analysis of the situation at best. No mention of the money involved at all.

If the Cardinals have to fork out 29 million over two years - then Warner can walk. Period.

 

[slanidrac16]

It's like a texas holdem game, guys.

There are many twist to the story. Kurt's performance last year is worthy of top 5 qb dollars but his age knocks that down a bit. The Cards have a huge investment in Leinart who is waiting in the wings. That also knocks it down a bit. The Cards have a great offense and have surrounded him with the best receiving corp in the league. They have designed their offense for him. Add all this up plus the fact HE wants us to get Boldin extended. Where does he think the money line ends?

Look, if there is a team out there that is willing to give him 29m for 2 years he should take the money and run.....and the Cards should let him.

We have to keep some kind of cap order. Remember Warner wasn't always great since he's been here. He was, I believe the highest paid back-up Qb going into the 2007 season. He wasn't demanding more money going into 2008. He just wanted a chance to compete for the starting job. He got it.

As far as this silly 49er's thing, I believe the 49ers did call.....but only to jack-up the price for the Cards. Good move on their part. However, we all seen what Singletary wants to do ......and it ain't throwing the football all over Gods creation. But you have to admit a Warner to Arnez Battle combo would be lethal.

 

[TJ]

It's like a texas holdem game, guys.

There are many twist to the story. Kurt's performance last year is worthy of top 5 qb dollars but his age knocks that down a bit. The Cards have a huge investment in Leinart who is waiting in the wings. That also knocks it down a bit. The Cards have a great offense and have surrounded him with the best receiving corp in the league. They have designed their offense for him. Add all this up plus the fact HE wants us to get Boldin extended. Where does he think the money line ends?

Look, if there is a team out there that is willing to give him 29m for 2 years he should take the money and run.....and the Cards should let him.

We have to keep some kind of cap order. Remember Warner wasn't always great since he's been here. He was, I believe the highest paid back-up Qb going into the 2007 season. He wasn't demanding more money going into 2008. He just wanted a chance to compete for the starting job. He got it.

As far as this silly 49er's thing, I believe the 49ers did call.....but only to jack-up the price for the Cards. Good move on their part. However, we all seen what Singletary wants to do ......and it ain't throwing the football all over Gods creation. But you have to admit a Warner to Arnez Battle combo would be lethal.

Or the reincarnation of Warner to Skillet Hands, if he re-signs

 

[moklerman]

If the Cardinals have to fork out 29 million over two years - then Warner can walk. Period.

True, but that's not the reality. 12-14 will get it done and many board members have posted many various contract ideas that would not only pay Warner but protect the team. They're just being frugal at this point. No one's suggesting a $100M dollar contract but a team needs to take care of it's QB for a wide variety of reasons.

What are the ramifications of telling Warner to go pound sand over what amounts to $2-4M? The current players, soon to be FA and future prospects probably aren't going to be encouraged about the team choosing money over loyalty and winning. The Cards shouldn't be having much trouble with this decision. With what Warner did and will likely do again in '09 you just pay him closer to what he wants than what the team wants and move forward. You just can't screw around with the QB position like that. Everyone on the team and all the fans are focused on that position, for better or for worse, and it's only going to bite the organization in the butt if it comes down to nickels and dimes like this.

 

[lauraw]

Harry, that was beautifully stated.

 

[PJ1]

Great post Harry. Particularly the part about us not being able to do much until this is over. Make a final offer, set a date and move on. Soon!

 

[Cards232]

First of all, some of you guys really crack me up. You get your panties in a twist over reports that say thus & so. Since when has the local media ever been consistently right? The national media doesn't have a much better record, especially when it comes to the Cards.

That being said, let's look at what the players in this drama have been saying & see how that correlates to current actions. Warner has said he wanted to keep the nucleus together for another SB run. He has stated that the re-working of Boldin's deal would be a significant factor in his decisions. Warner has also recently said he would take less in order to get Boldin's deal re-worked.

Has anyone but me noticed that Warner's reported demands have gone up as Boldin's deal, & maybe others, seemingly get further & further away from getting done? Could it be that Warner &/or his agent have had substantive discussions w/ the Cards & see little appetite on the part of the FO to make any headway in these signings, & thus, if he's going to stay here he might as well get paid what he's really worth? Warner's been down this road before in taking less for the better of the team & got burned to a crisp. As the old saying goes, "burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me". Warner may just be a little gun shy of promises.

For those of you that say Warner will never complete 16 games this next year, didn't you say the same thing this last campaign? Warner is one of the more resilient qb's in the league. Sometimes it's better to keep one's mouth shut & be thought a fool, rather than open the mouth & remove all doubt.

Also, for those who say that Warner would deserve this money if he were younger, the only thing that matters is performance. If Warner was looking for a long term contract, that might be a different story. Was Warner's performance last year worthy of 14-15 million? (bare in mind, we were substantially under the cap this year). If he can perform at that level again for the next 2 years (not 10 years), would that be worthy of 14-15 million/yr? Warner shows NO signs of slowing down, in fact, he seemingly, against all odds, is actually getting better.

Reportedly, Eli Manning is getting set for a 20 million/yr. contract. Cassel is going to make 14.75 this year after being a journeyman his whole career. All things are relative. 14-15 million vs. those guys looks like a steal to me. Again, I think all this has more to do w/ the FO, promises, Boldin, etc. than what meets the eye. But for those of you that seem to know what's going on w/o having talked to even one of the parties involved, well, have at it. We rarely get the whole story in advance when it comes to the Cards, & many here have looked quite foolish for their brash statements when the true story unfolds in the aftermath.

Finally, for those stating we just let Warner walk, be careful what you wish for! Of course I believe there are some here that would love that b/c their lives thrive on negativism. If there's not something to complain about, they are truly not happy. One need look no further than some of these threads throughout the season, & more particular game threads, for vindication of that point.

Just food for thought guys. Here's to hoping for good news over the weekend.

 

[PJ1]

First of all, some of you guys really crack me up. You get your panties in a twist over reports that say thus & so. Since when has the local media ever been consistently right? The national media doesn't have a much better record, especially when it comes to the Cards.

That being said, let's look at what the players in this drama have been saying & see how that correlates to current actions. Warner has said he wanted to keep the nucleus together for another SB run. He has stated that the re-working of Boldin's deal would be a significant factor in his decisions. Warner has also recently said he would take less in order to get Boldin's deal re-worked.

Has anyone but me noticed that Warner's reported demands have gone up as Boldin's deal, & maybe others, seemingly get further & further away from getting done? Could it be that Warner &/or his agent have had substantive discussions w/ the Cards & see little appetite on the part of the FO to make any headway in these signings, & thus, if he's going to stay here he might as well get paid what he's really worth? Warner's been down this road before in taking less for the better of the team & got burned to a crisp. As the old saying goes, "burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me". Warner may just be a little gun shy of promises.

For those of you that say Warner will never complete 16 games this next year, didn't you say the same thing this last campaign? Warner is one of the more resilient qb's in the league. Sometimes it's better to keep one's mouth shut & be thought a fool, rather than open the mouth & remove all doubt.

Also, for those who say that Warner would deserve this money if he were younger, the only thing that matters is performance. If Warner was looking for a long term contract, that might be a different story. Was Warner's performance last year worthy of 14-15 million? (bare in mind, we were substantially under the cap this year). If he can perform at that level again for the next 2 years (not 10 years), would that be worthy of 14-15 million/yr? Warner shows NO signs of slowing down, in fact, he seemingly, against all odds, is actually getting better.

Reportedly, Eli Manning is getting set for a 20 million/yr. contract. Cassel is going to make 14.75 this year after being a journeyman his whole career. All things are relative. 14-15 million vs. those guys looks like a steal to me. Again, I think all this has more to do w/ the FO, promises, Boldin, etc. than what meets the eye. But for those of you that seem to know what's going on w/o having talked to even one of the parties involved, well, have at it. We rarely get the whole story in advance when it comes to the Cards, & many here have looked quite foolish for their brash statements when the true story unfolds in the aftermath.

Finally, for those stating we just let Warner walk, be careful what you wish for! Of course I believe there are some here that would love that b/c their lives thrive on negativism. If there's not something to complain about, they are truly not happy. One need look no further than some of these threads throughout the season, & more particular game threads, for vindication of that point.

Just food for thought guys. Here's to hoping for good news over the weekend.

So we can't comment on the reports? You though have better information?

What cracks me up is posts on a message board telling others what they can post about and respond to.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think some of you guys take this stuff too seriously. When Warner takes the field in game 1 for us, no one is going to care about any of this. Just like no one gave a damn last September about all the posturing and things said during Fitz' renegoitation last year.

I agree with that. My problem is that Kurt's doing exactly what Fitz did last year, holding the team hostage so the rest of the FA period is on hold until he (probably) signs with us.

I know we weren't going to sign Haynesworth and the big guys like Asomugha never made it to FA, but when you have a guy demanding to be overpaid that much it puts everything else on hold, you can't sign any other big deals because you take the risk of raising the demand from the guy holding you hostage.

He was amazing last year, but I have to wonder, what if we'd stopped Pitt on the last drive and won the game, would Kurt be asking for 20 million? At some point you have to ask do the players not get that this stuff decreases the odds of the team getting back to the Super Bowl?

 

[Cards232]

So we can't comment on the reports? You though have better information?

What cracks me up is posts on a message board telling others what they can post about and respond to.

I think you've misunderstood. There's a difference between commenting on reports, & treating them as facts. I don't have better info., that's why I don't state those things as factual other than the things that are.

Also, please show me where I posted what people can post about & respond to. In fact, in one of my statements I say "have at it". I am simply commenting on the comments. I think it's a shame when people speak authoritatively about things they have no idea about. I would never take away their right to do so however. Lighten up dude, it's gonna be a great weekend. Remember, even though we may have disagreements, we're ultimately all on the same side.

The team had to learn how to win after decades of futility. Many fans need to learn how to be winning fans after decades of futility as well. It's o.k. to win & to keep winning. My best to you & yours this weekend my fellow Cards fan.

 

[moklerman]

What cracks me up is posts on a message board telling others what they can post about and respond to.

What cracks me up is when someone totally misreads a post.

My problem is that Kurt's doing exactly what Fitz did last year, holding the team hostage so the rest of the FA period is on hold until he (probably) signs with us.

That isn't true at all. The Cards have plenty of money regardless of the Warner situation. Now, if you'd argued that they are being held hostage because Graves doesn't seem to multi-task very well...

 

[Russ Smith]

What cracks me up is when someone totally misreads a post.
That isn't true at all. The Cards have plenty of money regardless of the Warner situation. Now, if you'd argued that they are being held hostage because Graves doesn't seem to multi-task very well...

No it's completely true because Warner or his agent are demanding huge money so the Cards almost have to be afraid to sign any other deal because it might increase the demand by Warner.

IF the Cards for example cut a deal with Dockett, if he gets big money Warner's agent can and probably would turn right around and say if he's worth that, we're upping our request too.

Now I do think part of the Warner demand is that he's trying to get the Cards to see last year was special, don't break it up by letting Boldin leave. I think that's why he's asking for 12-14, that way IF we do work out a way to keep Boldin he can then lower the offer to a more reasonable figure and he gets what he wants(stays with us with the same WR's) and gets to look like a great guy for taking less.

I appreciate what Warner did last year but the second he started asking for 12-14 million the he's a great guy looking out for the team stuff went out the window with me. In the end he probably stays and takes less, but he is doing what every NFL player in this position does, lets his agent run the show and hold the team hostage.

The Cards are in a no win situation if they call his bluff and tell him good luck somewhere else they look like idiots and get called cheapskates. This only got to FA because his agent wanted to use other teams as leverage, it appears pretty clear nobody else is going to throw 12-14 at him unless someone just panics.

He had an amazing year but he has proven he's no different than any other NFL player who says it's not about the money, in the end it's ALWAYS about the money.

 

[jefftheshark]

I agree with that. My problem is that Kurt's doing exactly what Fitz did last year, holding the team hostage so the rest of the FA period is on hold until he (probably) signs with us.

I know we weren't going to sign Haynesworth and the big guys like Asomugha never made it to FA, but when you have a guy demanding to be overpaid that much it puts everything else on hold, you can't sign any other big deals because you take the risk of raising the demand from the guy holding you hostage.

He was amazing last year, but I have to wonder, what if we'd stopped Pitt on the last drive and won the game, would Kurt be asking for 20 million? At some point you have to ask do the players not get that this stuff decreases the odds of the team getting back to the Super Bowl?

I'm not sure I agree with this, Russ, as I don't see Warner holding us hostage.

He's really on the bad side of trying to get max dollars, because now that he's hit the open market, the apparent lack of interest by other teams has driven down his asking price. Warner will soon be in the position of worrying that the Cards are going to be spending their pool of available dollars on other FA's like McFadden, and the proverbial pie is going to shrink.

My prediction is that he is going to re-sign with the Cards but at a fairly reasonable guaranteed number, but with a contract that looks better than it is because of some face-saving incentives.

I don't think that Warner's going to walk, because there's no place to walk to. And I don't think that the Cards are waiting for this to be resolved before they do anything else in FA, because just as we've seen before, Graves moves at his own pace, slowly but methodically.

JMHO

JTS

 

[Pariah]

If Warner and his agent want to do a Gordon Gekko impersonation that’s fine, but the Cards should set an immediate deadline and move on. We should all admire Warner’s play and contributions. He’s a great guy to have associated with the team. However, if his personal goals impede the team’s success, then it would seem best for both parties to agree to move forward separately.

Best. Take. Ever.