Warner Takes Aim; Hits Foot

[moklerman]

He had an amazing year but he has proven he's no different than any other NFL player who says it's not about the money, in the end it's ALWAYS about the money.

I think he's proven through the years that he isn't "about the money". I don't begrudge him wanting to maximize his last deal and I don't think it should be considered in the same category as guys who want to re-work their deals or want to be paid more than anyone else.

But, I do think that Warner is playing some hardball for various reasons. Primarily the Boldin situation. If Boldin was re-worked and committed to coming back then I think Warner would be signed already. Either way, I think both player's deals will happen very close to one another. Warner not signing right now just means Boldin's deal isn't close. When Warner makes a decision it will mean the Boldin situation has been established.

 

[ajcardfan]

I agree with that. My problem is that Kurt's doing exactly what Fitz did last year, holding the team hostage so the rest of the FA period is on hold until he (probably) signs with us.

I know we weren't going to sign Haynesworth and the big guys like Asomugha never made it to FA, but when you have a guy demanding to be overpaid that much it puts everything else on hold, you can't sign any other big deals because you take the risk of raising the demand from the guy holding you hostage.

He was amazing last year, but I have to wonder, what if we'd stopped Pitt on the last drive and won the game, would Kurt be asking for 20 million? At some point you have to ask do the players not get that this stuff decreases the odds of the team getting back to the Super Bowl?

Not so Russ. Fitz' incentives left us with almost no cap room. We couldn't do much of anything because of it. We have plenty of room to do some work if we wish. At least 15 to 20 mil to use while we wait for Warner to make up his mind.

 

[Mitch]

I think he's proven through the years that he isn't "about the money". I don't begrudge him wanting to maximize his last deal and I don't think it should be considered in the same category as guys who want to re-work their deals or want to be paid more than anyone else.

But, I do think that Warner is playing some hardball for various reasons. Primarily the Boldin situation. If Boldin was re-worked and committed to coming back then I think Warner would be signed already. Either way, I think both player's deals will happen very close to one another. Warner not signing right now just means Boldin's deal isn't close. When Warner makes a decision it will mean the Boldin situation has been established.

I have been in total agreement with many of your posts recently, Moklerman. In this case, I don't think Warner's playing hardball because of Q's situation. Sure, he wants Q back and if Warner does indeed re-sign, don't expect Q to go anywhere.

However, Warner is trying to be rewarded for the work he did while playing at a bargain salary for the last couple of years. It's the reward he wants. And I think he's a little uncomfortable about his agents' hard line on the $29M...but his agents have been telling him he deserves it and should do all he can to get it.

What has to happen, IMO, is the Cardinals have to offer a deal with incentives that could reach the neighborhood of $28M (been saying all along $20M + $8M in incentives). That way Warner gets rewarded and he still has to play well to reach the maximum figure on the contract. A win-win for both sides, IMO.

BTW, keep up the great posts, Moklerman. You are making as much sense of all this as anyone.

 

[moklerman]

In this case, I don't think Warner's playing hardball because of Q's situation.

I don't think it's an either/or thing though. While Q is unresolved I think there will be much harder stance on the contract numbers by Warner. If Q is taken care of I think Warner would lower his asking price. Q won't be the difference in him signing or not signing but I think the amount he wants could be.

 

[earthsci]

They will be hollering that it is '98 all over again.

And the irony of that sentence is that '98 happened the way that it did because we overpaid our QB to "reward" him and left nothing to take care of important players.

 

[moklerman]

And the irony of that sentence is that '98 happened the way that it did because we overpaid our QB to "reward" him and left nothing to take care of important players.

You're not suggesting the Cardinals give Warner $42M are you?

 

[Duckjake]

However, Warner is trying to be rewarded for the work he did while playing at a bargain salary for the last couple of years. It's the reward he wants.

According to USA Today Warner made $8 million last year. $4 million in salary and $4 million under "other bonus". That is right in line with most of the other QBs in the NFL who did not get an enormous signing bonus like BR, Romo, or Matt H did.

It shows Warner at $5 million for 2007 which would be about right for a guy his age with a propensity to fumble, coming off a less than stellar season, with a bonus baby QB added to the roster. They show Warner getting $7 million in 2006. So I can't see that Warner has been playing for a bargain salary.

$20 million for about a season and a half of high quality football seems relatively fair to me.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm not sure I agree with this, Russ, as I don't see Warner holding us hostage.

He's really on the bad side of trying to get max dollars, because now that he's hit the open market, the apparent lack of interest by other teams has driven down his asking price. Warner will soon be in the position of worrying that the Cards are going to be spending their pool of available dollars on other FA's like McFadden, and the proverbial pie is going to shrink.

My prediction is that he is going to re-sign with the Cards but at a fairly reasonable guaranteed number, but with a contract that looks better than it is because of some face-saving incentives.

I don't think that Warner's going to walk, because there's no place to walk to. And I don't think that the Cards are waiting for this to be resolved before they do anything else in FA, because just as we've seen before, Graves moves at his own pace, slowly but methodically.

JMHO

JTS

I don't think he'll walk either but not because he's different, a great guy who only wants to keep the team together. For the reason you said, the market isn't there for a 38 year old QB and Kurt is finding that out.

But in the process, because his deal isn't done, it's tougher on the Cards to operate because they don't know how much money they have available.

Kurt had a fabuluous year and seems to be a great guy but he's shown that he's not any different than the average NFL player in this situation, they play the game.

 

[Russ Smith]

Not so Russ. Fitz' incentives left us with almost no cap room. We couldn't do much of anything because of it. We have plenty of room to do some work if we wish. At least 15 to 20 mil to use while we wait for Warner to make up his mind.

Well a lot of that room is because we have so many FA's ourselves though. We have caproom and Kurt isn't going to get so much he screws our cap. But the point is this deal could already be done, we want him, he wants to be here, nobody else appears ready to throw more money at him. This is the perfect situation for him but rather than just concede all that and sign, he let it get to FA because he wanted to play the game.

That's all I'm saying, in the end he should have never got to this point. It's just creating a negotiation and distraction that we really could do without during such a huge offseason for the franchise.

 

[moklerman]

$20 million for about a season and a half of high quality football seems relatively fair to me.

I think it's all balanced out too. He was overpaid in '05/'06 and underpaid in '07/'08. I think that's what he's actually saying. He just wants a contract in line with what his numbers would be in '09. $10M is low for 4,000+ and 27+ TD's. And that's just on statistics alone. Warner brings much more to the table than just showing up on game day(see: Marc Bulger who doesn't even show up then most of the time).

 

[Mustang75]

Typical Cardinals

The Bidwells are cheap and won't do anything to have a good QB in
Arizona.

 

[Duckjake]

I think it's all balanced out too. He was overpaid in '05/'06 and underpaid in '07/'08. I think that's what he's actually saying. He just wants a contract in line with what his numbers would be in '09. $10M is low for 4,000+ and 27+ TD's. And that's just on statistics alone. Warner brings much more to the table than just showing up on game day(see: Marc Bulger who doesn't even show up then most of the time).

The $12 million that Farve received last year from the Jets really sets the bar for me.

But I still wonder how much Warner's age affects negations because it makes it difficult for the Cards to give him a signing bonus that is cap friendly if that bonus accelerates when/if Kurt retires.

 

[moklerman]

But I still wonder how much Warner's age affects negations because it makes it difficult for the Cards to give him a signing bonus that is cap friendly if that bonus accelerates when/if Kurt retires.

I'm thinking $12M will get it done too and I'm in the same boat as everyone else in terms of thinking he'll retire after '09 but maybe he actually thinks he'll make it 'til '10? With a two year deal though, part of the bonus can be this year and whatever's left will be next year regardless of whether he retires so I don't think that should be much of an issue. Not with an uncapped year especially.

 

[jefftheshark]

I don't think he'll walk either but not because he's different, a great guy who only wants to keep the team together. For the reason you said, the market isn't there for a 38 year old QB and Kurt is finding that out.

But in the process, because his deal isn't done, it's tougher on the Cards to operate because they don't know how much money they have available.

Kurt had a fabuluous year and seems to be a great guy but he's shown that he's not any different than the average NFL player in this situation, they play the game.

In my opinion, the Cards know exactly what they're going to pay for Warner.

What is left to be determined is when Warner is going to accept it.

JTS

 

[Duckjake]

The Bidwells are cheap and won't do anything to have a good QB in
Arizona.

You mean like take one of college football's highest rated senior QBs with the 10th pick in the draft and sign him to a 6 year $51 million dollar contract?

Nah, the Bidwills would never do something like that.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

The Bidwells are cheap and won't do anything to have a good QB in
Arizona.

Yawn... stellar 1st post...

 

[Duckjake]

I'm thinking $12M will get it done too and I'm in the same boat as everyone else in terms of thinking he'll retire after '09 but maybe he actually thinks he'll make it 'til '10? With a two year deal though, part of the bonus can be this year and whatever's left will be next year regardless of whether he retires so I don't think that should be much of an issue. Not with an uncapped year especially.

You would think that Kurt will want more guaranteed money. At his age a career or season ending injury is a far greater risk than for someone 28. That means a larger signing bonus and a bigger cap hit. However, his cap # was around $6 million last year so maybe that isn't as big an issue as I'm thinking it is.

 

[Chopper0080]

Between Boldin and Warner, I am having a tremendous amount of fun watching them both try and create leverage in their respective negotiations. The Cardinals own the future of these two athletes even more than the Bengals did last year with Chad Johnson.

Warner will be 38 this year and does not have the time to adjust to a new team and system. That coupled with his financial demands and it is clear that he has nowhere to go. He won't sign with another team for less money and probably won't get another contending team to shell out 12 million for his services. All this talk about the 49ers is a joke and everyone knows it. Warner is just grandstanding in hopes that the Cardinals cave into the media pressure. This is what a man does when he doesn't have any leverage.

Boldin is also locked in with Arizona. He has two years left on his contract, has been incapable of playing an entire season, will be 28 by the end of this year, and is not even the best wide receiver on his team. He is underpaid, however he has also been offered a raise by the team. The only angle for Boldin to gain any leverage with is by bashing the Cardinals organization in hopes that the media will pressure the Cardinals front office to cave into his demands.

This whole thing makes me laugh.

 

[Carddan]

In my opinion, the Cards know exactly what they're going to pay for Warner.

What is left to be determined is when Warner is going to accept it.

JTS

I agree Jeff. And if that's the case then this delay is having little or no impact on the team's other plans for free agency.

 

[Duckjake]

He won't sign with another team for less money and probably won't get another contending team to shell out 12 million for his services.

That all depends on how the NFL views the Farve situation. The Jets paid $12 million to Brett as he was coming off a 13-3 season. They got about a half year of production out of it and then he and the team faded down the stretch.

Was it worth it?

 

[JS22]

Only if we're talking about a long term deal. 1-2 years for Peyton money isn't outrageous because at worst, the Cardinals are going to get stuck with 1-2 bad years of contract they have to eat. I mean, that's really worst case scenario. Warner might get hurt but so might Peyton.

The point is, Warner wants to be paid like Peyton because he's putting up better numbers than Peyton. He plays better in the playoffs and he's only got one contract left. If he was asking for a 3, 4, 5 year contract it would be lunacy. But $14M for 4,000 yards and 30 TD's? That's not outrageous at all.

Good to see there are a few sane Cardinal fans here. It's not like he's asking to get paid for 3, 4, 5 years. This is a simple 2 year deal and he should be paid as one of the top QB's. He put up fantastic numbers last year and essentially carried the team. The year before was solid as well. Last year he very well could have, maybe should have, been the MVP of the league. Pay the man for 2 years. 12-14 million isn't outlandish. He's earned it.

 

[WildBB]

In my opinion, the Cards know exactly what they're going to pay for Warner.

What is left to be determined is when Warner is going to accept it.

JTS

Ding-Ding-Ding. And we have a winner!

 

[PJ1]

What cracks me up is when someone totally misreads a post.
That isn't true at all. The Cards have plenty of money regardless of the Warner situation. Now, if you'd argued that they are being held hostage because Graves doesn't seem to multi-task very well...

Didn't misread the post at all. When someone starts off their post with "you guys crack me up" and "you get your panties in a twist" expect a response.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Hey, this is the same Cardinal organization that gave Plummer a huge contract after his first success, so this team will pay a QB but it is this age concern which really is the cause why the Cardinals and any other team will be reluctant to pay Warner what he is worth on playing ability alone.

 

[Totally_Red]

Boldin is also locked in with Arizona. He has two years left on his contract, has been incapable of playing an entire season, will be 28 by the end of this year, and is not even the best wide receiver on his team. He is underpaid, however he has also been offered a raise by the team. The only angle for Boldin to gain any leverage with is by bashing the Cardinals organization in hopes that the media will pressure the Cardinals front office to cave into his demands.

Q was the SECOND best receiver in the NFC as judged by players, coaches and fans this past season. Virtually any other receiver in the National Football League with the possible exception of Andre Johnson would not be the best wide receiver on the Cardinals. He actually came back faster than expected from the savage hit in the Meadowlands.

The team needs to honor their word and make him an generous offer before the draft IMO. As Whis said, he laid it on the line for the team, now it's time for the team to step up to the plate and compensate him, not with a Fitz-level contract, but with something in 8-9 million range.

And Boldin should keep his mouth shut and let his agent do the talking.