Warner...

[clif]

There were some "fans" in our section chanting for Leinart in the SF game...where he put up 300 and 3 TDs. Go figure.

I know there will be Leinart chants on Sunday, maybe from jump, because so many fans don't know anything about the game.

The only way I want to see Matt in right now is if Kurt gets hurt...and that should scare the hell out of Matt. We need a freaking Oline in the worst way.

Gosh that is what I hate so much... some people are just freaking idiots.

 

[D-Dogg]

He didn't throw well even when he had time.

This is true...his balls looked like crap all game long. I do put that on the line, because Warner got himself shaken so bad he wanted that hot potato out of his hands and threw some damn bad passes.

I told my wife while we watched his passes go high and off that I felt the best way to get some freedom back there is to stick some perfect passes in there in the face of the rush...make them respect you and they have to back off coverage and not bring the house every time. But that would entail us having some crossing routes with one of the best crossing route runner in the NFL in Boldin....which we didn't run. So instead Kurt tried to go downfield into coverage with a scared arm...and that is a recipie for disaster.

Kurt's decision making was terrible all game long...his throws were bad...he lacked intensity in the huddle and at the line...and I put all of that on the fact he was running for his life and actually scared. Too scared to make a play and while I blame him a little, I can't *really* blame him.

 

[Faithful]

With the way the OL played, I honestly can't blame Warner for his pretty poor game. He made some very stupid decisions, yes, but he was running for his life the whole time and took some pretty big hits. Dude was shellshocked. I was laughing when after he hit BJ for the TD and was jogging backwards and fell over the guy behind him. I told my wife then, "even when he gets off a great pass for a score, the poor guy still ends up on his ass."

It's going to piss me off next weekend when I hear the "We Want Leinart" chants in the stands (and I'm one of the biggest Matt supporters out there)...what they should chant is "We want an O-Line!" If we could get a "We Want an O-Line" chant going through that stadium that would send a good message. Chanting to bring in Leinart makes us look like idiots who don't recognize the actual problem...making us look like the coaching staff.

Well put!

 

[jefftheshark]

The defensive game plan that Seattle employed was very effective against a non-mobile QB. On the play that Warner threw the interception, the middle of the field was empty. He could have run for a 1st down, but chose to throw a wounded duck across his body. Seattle wasn't afraid of Warner's scrambling, because he never did.

This doesn't mean that Warner should be benched, but we should expect every other team we face to see the film of this game and have a blueprint for beating us.

The Shark

 

[conraddobler]

This is true...his balls looked like crap all game long. I do put that on the line, because Warner got himself shaken so bad he wanted that hot potato out of his hands and threw some damn bad passes.

I told my wife while we watched his passes go high and off that I felt the best way to get some freedom back there is to stick some perfect passes in there in the face of the rush...make them respect you and they have to back off coverage and not bring the house every time. But that would entail us having some crossing routes with one of the best crossing route runner in the NFL in Boldin....which we didn't run. So instead Kurt tried to go downfield into coverage with a scared arm...and that is a recipie for disaster.

Kurt's decision making was terrible all game long...his throws were bad...he lacked intensity in the huddle and at the line...and I put all of that on the fact he was running for his life and actually scared. Too scared to make a play and while I blame him a little, I can't *really* blame him.

It's one game, he played poorly under bad conditions, I'm not calling to bench him yet, just saying that Leinart is there and if Kurt were to duplicate that sort of performance with better protection then his seat gets hotter.

I don't like his play under adversity, he gets pretty turtled up, not that I blame him, I'd hide in a corner and rock mumbling big bad men hurt me, but then again I don't do his job for a living either.

 

[JeffGollin]

Kurt had a miserable game. Most of this was due to how horribly our offensive line played, but some of it was simply due to bad decision-making under pressure and starting QB's are paid to make good decisions.

Still - straighten out our pass and run blocking, and KW will be OK.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Warner does have a problem holding on to the ball, but when you are getting hit in the face AND blindsided from two other guys I can kind of understand. It's not like he's getting hit by one guy...he's getting hit by one guy while another is ripping his arms and another hitting him in the side.

His fumbles are a problem, but sometimes those balls are coming out regardless of who is holding them....we can't let that kind of defensive pressure surround the QB, no matter who it is.

This sounds like the Josh apologists who blamed Clown's fumbling on the offensive line when it was poor pocket presence and worse fundamentals as to why he fumbled. Warner has been sacked eight times this year, a distinction he shares with Eli Manning, Matt Hasselbeck, Andrew Walter, Jon Kitna, David Carr, Marc Bulger, and Daunte Culpepper. The problem is all those guys have put the ball on the ground considerably less than Kurt.

 

[mesacardsfan]

Kurts fumbling I am sorry is flat out due to the fact Dlinemen are hitting him freely because of our PATHETIC line. Mao any of the qbs you listed would be just as bad behind our line sorry. Freakin protect him and he will be fine, put Leinart in if you want him killed he would get absolutely killed!

 

[abomb]

They'll get around to it. Right now they're busy firing Dennis Green, spending 10 million dollars, and changing everyone's position. You can only do so much at one time. Maybe they'll get to that on Tuesday.

Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

 

[D-Dogg]

This sounds like the Josh apologists who blamed Clown's fumbling on the offensive line when it was poor pocket presence and worse fundamentals as to why he fumbled. Warner has been sacked eight times this year, a distinction he shares with Eli Manning, Matt Hasselbeck, Andrew Walter, Jon Kitna, David Carr, Marc Bulger, and Daunte Culpepper. The problem is all those guys have put the ball on the ground considerably less than Kurt.

No, that is not the case. Warner isn't getting sacked by one guy and fumbling. He's getting hit by multiple guys, from blindsides and behind, and that causes fumbles. Those guys aren't getting blindside sacked and piled up as often as Kurt has either.

Listen, I'm not making excuses for Kurt....he should hold on to the ball better which he does not do, but on the fumbles I can hardly blame him when he's set to throw and two guys hit him from nowhere.

He has not pocket to have a presence of...that's the OL. I will be very angry if he gets plenty of time and coughs up the ball off a single hits. That isn't the case right now, however, so I'm far more concerned with the problem and the reasons of why he is getting hit multiple times on the same play just after the snap.

When the oline is fixed, Warner's fumblitis will be more of a problem, but as it stands it isn't even on the radar screen as an issue. If you hit Leinart high, low and with a third guy stripping the ball, he's going to drop a lot of them too.

And don't ever compare me to anything that uses Josh McCown apologists in the same sentence...them's fighting words.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

If I actually hear that crap next week I might have to injure someone. Kurt has shown ZERO reason to be benched. I would be totally embarrassed if the fans called for Matt two weeks after Kurt won offensive player of the week!

You cannot blame all of Kurts fumbles on the OLine. What, does he have 4 or 5 fumbles now? If he would have lost all of them, we definitely would be hearing Leinart's name.

Warner threw a couple of ducks in that game, the play where he had Bergen WIDE OPEN down the right seam, but he was scrambling and running left. He did not square his shoulders and threw the ball 5 yards too quickly. A good throw, or even a decent one and that is a TD.

Warner has played ok. There are reasons to want to see Leinart. Warners play would only be a small part of it. To say that there is ZERO reason why Kurt should be benched would be naive.

 

[ChandlerCard]

Kurt got nailed repeatedly when the line missed a block, let a man through, or when he held too long. If the first two could be fixed I'll take the third, since it comes with his very high completion percentage. Also, Kurt plays better in a dome, which may have had some impact. But I'm more pissed that they moved Wells out to tackle, when the plan is to move him back to guard after Ross returns. Why make the change? I would have been happy with the week 1 line performance by comparison!

 

[mesacardsfan]

Color me naive then!!!! Kurt has ZERO reason to be benched are you kidding me? Are you one of those women next to me in the stadium wearing a pink Leinart jersey? Just curious? I mean this is just a rediculous statement, Warner has done nothing to deserved to be benched in favor of a ROOKIE that has never played a real game! Leinart gives us nothing that Warner doesn't give us along with REAL years of experience and former MVP. Where were you last week did he not deserve to be benched last week or you basing this off yesterdays pathetic showing of the whole team? The D waited till the 2nd Qtr to decide to play after putting us in a nice hole 14 to zip. The Oline left their brains at home and look like a bunch of chickens with the heads cut off. Warner is lucky to have survived that debacle yesterday, and I blame bad coaching and the Oline Warner was NOT at fault period.

 

[Russ Smith]

You cannot blame all of Kurts fumbles on the OLine. What, does he have 4 or 5 fumbles now? If he would have lost all of them, we definitely would be hearing Leinart's name.

Warner threw a couple of ducks in that game, the play where he had Bergen WIDE OPEN down the right seam, but he was scrambling and running left. He did not square his shoulders and threw the ball 5 yards too quickly. A good throw, or even a decent one and that is a TD.

Warner has played ok. There are reasons to want to see Leinart. Warners play would only be a small part of it. To say that there is ZERO reason why Kurt should be benched would be naive.

Warner has actually fumbled 7 times in 2 games although one of those was the play where Milford Brown deflected the ball right out of his hand and that was not Kurt's fault at all(against SF).

Speaking of fumbles did the NFL change something with the balls this year I'm seeing a TON of fumbles?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Kurt has always fumbled. Don't act like this is earth shattering news. He plays well enough to live with it.

 

[Russ Smith]

Kurt has always fumbled. Don't act like this is earth shattering news. He plays well enough to live with it.

True I made that comment last week and someone else said I was wrong. What's a concern is the rate, last year he had 9 fumbles in 10 games, this year 6(not counting the one Brown caused) in 2 games. Remember the year he got benched by the Rams because of all the fumbles? That year he fumbled 6 times in 2 games before Bulger took over, same as this year although they lost 3 that year to only 1 this year.

I am really wondering about the balls though because it seems QB's are dropping the ball every game I see. Brees fumbled twice in consecutive drives, remember the preseason game where Rivers was dropping it left and right?

 

[MadCardDisease]

Kurt has always fumbled. Don't act like this is earth shattering news. He plays well enough to live with it.

Very true!

Kurt Warner has insanely small hands and grips the football like no other QB I've seen. He is going to fumble the ball. That's just what you get with Kurt.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

No, that is not the case. Warner isn't getting sacked by one guy and fumbling. He's getting hit by multiple guys, from blindsides and behind, and that causes fumbles. Those guys aren't getting blindside sacked and piled up as often as Kurt has either.

Listen, I'm not making excuses for Kurt....he should hold on to the ball better which he does not do, but on the fumbles I can hardly blame him when he's set to throw and two guys hit him from nowhere.

He has not pocket to have a presence of...that's the OL. I will be very angry if he gets plenty of time and coughs up the ball off a single hits. That isn't the case right now, however, so I'm far more concerned with the problem and the reasons of why he is getting hit multiple times on the same play just after the snap.

When the oline is fixed, Warner's fumblitis will be more of a problem, but as it stands it isn't even on the radar screen as an issue. If you hit Leinart high, low and with a third guy stripping the ball, he's going to drop a lot of them too.

Kurt has had time pretty consistently, he's holding the ball too long and especially so once he is in the grasp of a lineman. Here's a good example - if a second or third guy comes at that point of course he's going to fumble because his ball security is horrendous which has little to do with offensive line play.

I don't recall if he fumbled here, but specifically in the 49ers game I know his costly fumble was a result of him trying to make something happen when he should have tucked the ball and moved onto the next down. He did it again when he called for that intentional grounding during the 49ers game. Now this has always been a problem - it's not merely a coincidence that Warner has played behind terrible o-lines (look at Warner's 2004 numbers vs. Eli Manning's behind same line) that he fumbles and takes sacks. The problem is that we are not the 2001 Rams, so we cannot afford to have that many turnovers and as long as Warner is putting the ball on the ground he's putting the team in jeopardy of losing games.

 

[Ryanwb]

The Cardinals should break huddle with 2 QB's behind the lOS..... take that Rams defense!!!!

 

[Russ Smith]

The Cardinals should break huddle with 2 QB's behind the lOS..... take that Rams defense!!!!

Or maybe line up a guy behind Warner who's only responsibility is to recover fumbles, bad snaps, or tackle defenders who pick up the ball.

Sort of a free safety on offense.

 

[ajcardfan]

Very true!

Kurt Warner has insanely small hands and grips the football like no other QB I've seen. He is going to fumble the ball. That's just what you get with Kurt.

Dave Krieg was a guy who had a similar problem with fumbling due to having smaller hands. Remember how he set a record for fumbles, and sacks, the year he was starting?

 

[D-Dogg]

Mao,

He didn't fumble on that one, but I don't know how he didn't...I remember that play specifically. Yes, his ball security is bad, but most QBs if hit by multiple guys or blindsided will drop the ball whether they have good ball security or not.

Like I mentioned, I know Kurt is a fumbler, and I can live with it to a point. However, he is sure to fumble a lot more with all the blindside hits he takes and the two or three guys hitting him. Right now THAT is the problem, and unless that is fixed, anyone else will fumble the ball a lot too.

I can't wait until Kurt's piss poor ball security really is the issue, because then we have Leinart waiting in the wings. Right now however, Kurt could lock the ball away with two hands and there's a good chance it will come out when he's being batted around like a catnip ball in a crazy old lady's house.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I understand considering the fumbling machines we've had at QB all these years (McCown, Plummer, Warner, Blake), but it's definitely not standard practice for every QB to lose the ball every time he gets sacked from behind. As a matter of fact, fundamentally sound QBs generally don't lose the ball in such instances if they're hit before they go into the throwing motion and do not take as many hits thanks to superior pocket presence.

 

[Mitch]

The reason why teams were loathe to play press man coverage when Josh McCown was at QB...was the treat of the QB run. It takes the romance out of man coverage.

Is it merely coincidence that Josh won almost as many games as he lost as a Cardinal? Even John Fox of the Carolina Panthers was very nervous about having to defend McCown...and he was right...McCown played well against the Panthers

With Warner there is virtually no threat he will run, so teams can load up on the WRs and not worry.

That said, it becomes paramount that the o-line give Warner maximum protection and when they don't as we saw in the 2nd half of the 49er game and all game yesterday...hurried throws and holding the ball too long which leads to fumbles are what the Cardinals are going to get.

Warner's at an age when taking a repeated pounding is not going to make his job any easier or manageable.

What's most perplexing is how out of sorts mentally Warner is, particularly in situations at the end of the halfs. He's also painfully slow in setting up the offense, which causes, IMO, some of the anxiousness and the mistakes that come as a result of it.

 

[BigRedArk]

The reason why teams were loathe to play press man coverage when Josh McCown was at QB...was the treat of the QB run. It takes the romance out of man coverage.

Is it merely coincidence that Josh won almost as many games as he lost as a Cardinal? Even John Fox of the Carolina Panthers was very nervous about having to defend McCown...and he was right...McCown played well against the Panthers

With Warner there is virtually no threat he will run, so teams can load up on the WRs and not worry.

That said, it becomes paramount that the o-line give Warner maximum protection and when they don't as we saw in the 2nd half of the 49er game and all game yesterday...hurried throws and holding the ball too long which leads to fumbles are what the Cardinals are going to get.

Warner's at an age when taking a repeated pounding is not going to make his job any easier or manageable.

What's most perplexing is how out of sorts mentally Warner is, particularly in situations at the end of the halfs. He's also painfully slow in setting up the offense, which causes, IMO, some of the anxiousness and the mistakes that come as a result of it.

Folks on here can bash Josh all they want but one thing he could do is run. He was a tough runner and wasn't afraid to punish the tackler if needed too. Man we should have beat Carolina last year!!! Josh had a pretty good game against them if I remember correctly. Hasn't Warner had a history of concussions too? I wonder if that is taking a toll on him? Especially in games where he gets pounded due to our swiss cheese OL.