Warrick & Childress or Jefferson?

[Chaplin]

true. particulary with this suns team. when they're expected to do little they usually outperform. but this is a lot of new players. i really have no idea what to expect.

It certainly makes me want to go out to Palm Springs in September and see this team in the outdoor game.

 

[Joe Mama]

A lot of the defensive rebounds that Amare gets are the easy type where the opponent doesn't crash the boards. Those obviously will be picked up by someone else. Imo, I don't think we'll be out-rebounded any more often without Amare than we were with him, because he was often ineffective in preventing other bigs from getting offensive rebounds. Plus, so much of that depends on other players boxing out. Rebounding is a team effort, so at this point it is extremely difficult to predict how the loss of Amare will impact us in that area.

The numbers indeed tend to mislead in this case. It's true no one on our team approached Amare's rebounding averages, but you would expect your starting PF playing 35 mpg to be your leading rebounder, especially when your center only plays 19 mpg. Lopez, btw, averaged 9.1 boards per-36 minutes, just under Amare's 9.3 average. If we look at per-36 minute defensive rebounding averages, Amare was at 6.4 last year, Frye was at 5.9, Lopez at 5.3 playing alongside Amare. Turkgolu was at 4.8 last season, but that number should come up somewhat just by virtue of playing PF. Warrick was at 4.1 and 4.9 the year before. We have guys capable of getting interior defensive boards. How well they can work together is another story.

I tend to agree. My guess is that Channing Fry'es rebounding numbers increase somewhat dramatically. I saw Gentry talking about that at one of the summer league games the other day (btw I was a little disappointed that he essentially wrote off Frye's postgame improving... oh well). He said something about needing Frye to crash the boards harder this season. I know you can't base things on two games in the playoffs, but against a good Lakers frontcourt he showed that he can grab a bunch of rebounds.

I know how easy it is to buy into the hype in the off-season, but I'm really hopeful that Channing Frye "earns" that contract he got.

Anyhow, I basically agree with the idea that Stoudemire's rebounding is replaceable. Amare scarfs up the easy boards, and whatever he grabs is frequently offset by the number of rebounds he allows because he is out of position on a regular basis. I just talked about Kurt Thomas in another thread. Even though Amare might put up better numbers than Thomas I would rather have KT any day of the week where rebounding is concerned.

Of course once we start playing a lot of zone all this goes out the window. Still, I'm not worried nearly as much about losing Amare Stoudemire's rebounding as his postgame and ability to get to the free-throw line.

Joe

 

[Sunburn]

I tend to agree. My guess is that Channing Fry'es rebounding numbers increase somewhat dramatically. I saw Gentry talking about that at one of the summer league games the other day (btw I was a little disappointed that he essentially wrote off Frye's postgame improving... oh well). He said something about needing Frye to crash the boards harder this season. I know you can't base things on two games in the playoffs, but against a good Lakers frontcourt he showed that he can grab a bunch of rebounds.

I know how easy it is to buy into the hype in the off-season, but I'm really hopeful that Channing Frye "earns" that contract he got.

Anyhow, I basically agree with the idea that Stoudemire's rebounding is replaceable. Amare scarfs up the easy boards, and whatever he grabs is frequently offset by the number of rebounds he allows because he is out of position on a regular basis. I just talked about Kurt Thomas in another thread. Even though Amare might put up better numbers than Thomas I would rather have KT any day of the week where rebounding is concerned.

Of course once we start playing a lot of zone all this goes out the window. Still, I'm not worried nearly as much about losing Amare Stoudemire's rebounding as his postgame and ability to get to the free-throw line.

Joe

Frye will be in the second unit again, doing what he does. I don't see his rebounding numbers increasing all that drastically from last year.

 

[Errntknght]

Cly2tw,

That's debatable. Actually, the US redemption team won the gold medal with a DA offense kinda like SSOL. But he has the best indiv. in the world to implement it. (Actually, this makes him the best coach for the 3 stooges in Miami)

Pity that you didn't debate it... instead of going off an irrelevant tangent.

To win with trackmeet over 48min and SSOL, you need to make sure that your team commit less mistakes than the other. One part is done by your team being used to this speed compared to the opponents. The other is the quality of your indiv. players and whether they in smooth and warmed up on the court. It's hard to have enough good quality on the bench to begin with. Then, it's hard for them to get into the flow without real warmup times, and produce with 5-20 min they are given. That's the dilemma of DA's SSOL. And with Nash and Amare at the core, that's already the best conceivable under normal salary cap situation in NBA. Maybe Miami now could emulate that and win a title with SSOL, given their superior talent.

I can't imagine what you are getting at with the mishmash of ideas lumped into this paragraph. The lead sentence is wrong - fewer mistakes are generally better than more but, as always, you win by scoring more points than you allow your opponents to score.

I do apologize for not emphasizing another flaw in D'Antoni's version of SSOL, his failure to value defense. In case you're wondering I didn't mean to include the lack of D in my attribution of the 'the right idea' to him, sorry for the oversight.

As far as your apparent contention that not warming up and flowing smoothly quickly is a major drawback to subbing enough to keep your players fresh (I'm guessing that was what you meant to say) - I refer you to last season and the success our second unit had without an extended bad stretch when they first took the floor. Personally, I think it is more important that coach have a basic plan of when he is going to make substitutions and which players will join the game, than that the players are physically warmed up. Oh, yes, the players should know what the coaches plan is, so they are mentally ready - don't want to force you to guess about that.

I think its more of ploy on your part than a real dilemma unless your opinion of the Suns bench is very low and you didn't want to come out and say as much. You did go on a good bit about player quality without ever tying it down to specifics... except for the baffling bit about Miami.

 

[mojorizen7]

I still cringe every time I see Turkoglu and PF in the same sentence. We need a quality 4 da*^it. The team is so close. I really feel they could be something special with a solid 4. It's torture. I know there's a lot of time left. I hate being patient.

I gotta agree with you. I think Turk will have a bounce back year regardless of where he plays but yeah,a player that can score around the basket,with good size and rebounding skills puts this roster into a higher tier in terms of success IMO.
Those that continue to spew things like "Jefferson doesn't make sense" or "he doesn't fit the system" or he'll just clog the lane for Nash" can't see the forest through the trees and are incredibly locked into the basketball culture here.

It's really no surprise that FA was focused on resigning and signing tall skinny jump shooters to put around Nashy & Hill....except Warrick cant shoot,bang,play D or rebound(?).

It is nice to see the FO finally realizing that they needed to infuse some defensive scrappyness(Duds,Childress).....FINALLY.

Still,i doubt that even if JRich is moved at the deadline it will be to aquire a PF/big who can bang or rebound....it's just not what happens here.

Aquisitions like AC Green,Kurt Thomas and even the dinosaur that is Shaq are WAY too few and far inbetween for the SUNS. Every year there are players available but these guys arent even on the radar here....

This is a nice looking roster.....a mix of vets and youngsters,tons of offensive firepower,deep,scrappy....but with a big hole in the middle.

Ok....fire away Blind Homers!

 

[SunsTzu]

This is a nice looking roster.....a mix of vets and youngsters,tons of offensive firepower,deep,scrappy....but with a big hole in the middle.

I agree. The only reason I've supported the idea of getting Hedo was because it's the type of move that makes me think there is something else in the works.

If the Suns start the season with the roster they have, then adding Hedo an his contract doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Sunburn]

I gotta agree with you. I think Turk will have a bounce back year regardless of where he plays but yeah,a player that can score around the basket,with good size and rebounding skills puts this roster into a higher tier in terms of success IMO.
Those that continue to spew things like "Jefferson doesn't make sense" or "he doesn't fit the system" or he'll just clog the lane for Nash" can't see the forest through the trees and are incredibly locked into the basketball culture here.

It's really no surprise that FA was focused on resigning and signing tall skinny jump shooters to put around Nashy & Hill....except Warrick cant shoot,bang,play D or rebound(?).

It is nice to see the FO finally realizing that they needed to infuse some defensive scrappyness(Duds,Childress).....FINALLY.

Still,i doubt that even if JRich is moved at the deadline it will be to aquire a PF/big who can bang or rebound....it's just not what happens here.

Aquisitions like AC Green,Kurt Thomas and even the dinosaur that is Shaq are WAY too few and far inbetween for the SUNS. Every year there are players available but these guys arent even on the radar here....

This is a nice looking roster.....a mix of vets and youngsters,tons of offensive firepower,deep,scrappy....but with a big hole in the middle.

Ok....fire away Blind Homers!

With you 100% Mojo. I didn't think it was possible a couple of weeks ago, but with the recent moves I really think we're close. We need that quality big to round out our roster, to collapse defenses inwards to free-up our plethora of shooters, and to have someone for Nash to dish to inside off penetration for easy buckets. We're gonna need that guy in the playoffs and grind it out games. With that guy, I really feel like this team could be devastating. Without that guy, we die by the jumpshot. I don't know why "post player" is such a dirty word to so many around here. It should not be synonymous with anti-Suns. Amare was a post player. He didn't have a back to the basket game, but he caught the ball "in the post", thereby making him a post player. What's the difference between him going to work down there with his back to the basket rather than face up?

I think some people assume a dominant big doesn't suit this team because of what happened with Shaq. But Shaq really wasn't the problem. He was old, past his prime, and could barely move, but even then he wasn't a discredit to the line-up. It was Porter and his ill-conceived system, which made Shaq the entire focus of our offense, ignoring all of our other talents, that temporarily disabled our team. When Gentry took over and incorporated the strengths of Shaq and Nash, the offense ran beautifully, maybe the most beautifully efficient offense of all time, according to John Hollinger.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...PERDiem-090317

The real problem with Shaq was that he couldn't guard the pick and roll. Imagine if we could actually get a big that could do this.

The point is a dominant inside presence is not something this team should fear. We've got the playmakers, shooters, role players, athleticism, and just about everyone and everything else. We just need the beef. One guy could turn this team into something very, very special.

 

[mojorizen7]

I agree. The only reason I've supported the idea of getting Hedo was because it's the type of move that makes me think there is something else in the works.

If the Suns start the season with the roster they have, then adding Hedo an his contract doesn't make a lot of sense.

With you 100% Mojo. We need that quality big to round out our roster, and collapse defenses inwards to free-up our plethora of shooters. We're gonna need that guy in the playoffs and grind it out games. I didn't think it was possible a couple of weeks ago, but with the recent moves I really think we're close. With that guy, I really feel like this team could be devastating. Without that guy, we die by the jumpshot. I don't know why "post player" is such a dirty word to so many around here. It should not be synonymous with anti-Suns. Amare was a post player. He didn't have a back to the basket game, but he caught the ball "in the post", thereby making him a post player. What's the difference between him going to work down there with his back to the basket rather than face up? Some people will say,"Well, what about Shaq?". Well, what about Shaq. Shaq was old, past his prime, and could barely move, and even then he was not a discredit to the team. It was Porter's ill-conceived system, which made Shaq the entire focus of our offense, ignoring all of our other talents, that temporarily disabled our team. When Gentry took over and incorporated the strengths of Shaq and Nash, the offense ran beautifully, maybe the most beautifully efficient offense of all time, according to John Hollinger.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...PERDiem-090317

The real problem with Shaq was that he couldn't guard the pick and roll. Imagine if we could actually get a big that could do this.

The point is a dominant post presence is not something this team should fear. One guy could turn this team into something very, very special.

Absolutely on both counts gentlemen. I believe that Gentry will get the most out of what we've got in place....but it would be a bummer if there isn't another move in the works to get a guy in here that can move people inside,be a "volume rebounder" as Elindholm would say,and help spread the floor for our devastating perimeter shooters.