Warriors and the record

[slinslin]

Why would Draymond Green not play in the 90s, that is total non-sense in my opinion.

 

[slinslin]

Curry trying to dribble through Mahorn and Laimbeer would have been tragic.

How so? Kevin Johnson averaged 28ppg against the Pistons in 89/90 and couldn't shoot 3s like Curry.

 

[Dback Jon]

It was shortened during the 72-10 Bulls season.

Which was a GREAT advantage to the Bulls. Jordan went from shooting around 25% in threes to over 40%. He went back down to the 20% when line was moved back.

Shorter three point line bunched up the D, allowed for the Bulls' mugging style of D to succeed.

Under today's rules, Warriors would win.

 

[Covert Rain]

How so? Kevin Johnson averaged 28ppg against the Pistons in 89/90 and couldn't shoot 3s like Curry.

What does that have to do with anything? KJ grew up and played under that type of play. It molded how he learned to play the game. Curry could probably adapt but that doesn't mean his game would be the same. Just like I don't think KJ coming into the league now would be the same KJ.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't even think the 72 win Bulls team was it's best. It's best was the 1992 squad that won 67 games, with Jordan and Pippen, at 28 and 26 year old, right in the middle of beginning of their peak, peak, peak prime, when the 3 point line was still 23 feet. That, IMO, was the best team of all time... at least from what I've actually watched in the last 30 years.

That team would likely beat this team a lot. The 72 win club? People forget that Jordan was already older, still dominant and easily the best player in the league, but during his first 3 peat, he was playing at levels no one's ever seen before or since.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm glad Steph got his marks but I have to say again the fascination with round numbers drives me nuts. Steph already had the record, 392 was more than 100 ahead of the next guy, who looks exactly like Steph. Why they made such a huge deal out of 400 I don't get.

But that first quarter was impressive, Memphis was face guarding him after the first few minutes and he still got off 9 and made 6. the part I think people miss with him because of the quick release and distance is how good he is at moving without the ball. Sure the NBA allows moving screens and that helps but his ability to get open when everyone on the defense is paying attention to him is astounding.

 

[JCSunsfan]

All due respect tonJordan but Steph is the best shooter the NBA has ever seen and it's not even close. Not saying he is better, but i don't think those Bulls teams would have slowed him down.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't even think the 72 win Bulls team was it's best. It's best was the 1992 squad that won 67 games, with Jordan and Pippen, at 28 and 26 year old, right in the middle of beginning of their peak, peak, peak prime, when the 3 point line was still 23 feet. That, IMO, was the best team of all time... at least from what I've actually watched in the last 30 years.

That team would likely beat this team a lot. The 72 win club? People forget that Jordan was already older, still dominant and easily the best player in the league, but during his first 3 peat, he was playing at levels no one's ever seen before or since.

+1. I agree with you. That team was better. I just don't see Golden State beating that Bulls team.

Out of curiosity I pulled some quick numbers already posted elsewhere but I have not hand a chance to digest or verify theses numbers.

Curry's shot selection:

At the rim 11%
4-6 feet 24%
16-23 ft 9%
3 pointers 55%

In contrast some similar stats for Jordan I found posted from 90-92

In the paint (42.6%)
midrange (49.6%)
3 pointers (7.8%)

Assuming those are accurate, my vote would be for Jordan. I would rather place my bet on a someone seemingly unstoppable in the paint and at midrange verses the guy who appears to be unstoppable from the 3 but relies on that heavily as part of his game.

Damn...it would have been a fun match up to watch regardless.

 

[GatorAZ]

I don't even think the 72 win Bulls team was it's best. It's best was the 1992 squad that won 67 games, with Jordan and Pippen, at 28 and 26 year old, right in the middle of beginning of their peak, peak, peak prime, when the 3 point line was still 23 feet. That, IMO, was the best team of all time... at least from what I've actually watched in the last 30 years.

That team would likely beat this team a lot. The 72 win club? People forget that Jordan was already older, still dominant and easily the best player in the league, but during his first 3 peat, he was playing at levels no one's ever seen before or since.

92' team was up there but 96' was truly the GOAT. #1 in Off RTG and D RTG plus they dominated the playoffs. The 92' wasn't as deep and was worse defensively plus they struggled in the playoffs. Crazy thing about the 96' team is you had the greatest player ever at his highest motivated level possibly ever. Sure he was older but his game was wiser.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It is what is it, lots of opinions and none of them really matter. In the only measurement that does matter, the Warriors are the best regular season team of all time. They replaced the Bulls who used to be the best regular season team of all time.

My personal favorite is (or at least, was) the 86-87 Lakers team and I'd like their chances against any other "greatest" team but they only won 67 games so they lose out too. As has been said many times, you can't compare across eras, you can only compare them against their contemporaries and in that regard, the Warriors are supreme.

 

[Cheesebeef]

92' team was up there but 96' was truly the GOAT. #1 in Off RTG and D RTG plus they dominated the playoffs. The 92' wasn't as deep and was worse defensively plus they struggled in the playoffs. Crazy thing about the 96' team is you had the greatest player ever at his highest motivated level possibly ever. Sure he was older but his game was wiser.

I don't buy his game was wiser. Jordan was already 28, had won a title and was flat out, beyond dominating in every single way, offensively and defensively with the '92 team. And I think that the league was watered down in 1996. The Magic were already completely dysfunctional by the playoffs, with Shaq having one foot out the door. The Sonics were a good team, but other then that, I just don't think the league was all that good during the second 3 peat.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't buy his game was wiser. Jordan was already 28, had won a title and was flat out, beyond dominating in every single way, offensively and defensively with the '92 team. And I think that the league was watered down in 1996. The Magic were already completely dysfunctional by the playoffs, with Shaq having one foot out the door. The Sonics were a good team, but other then that, I just don't think the league was all that good during the second 3 peat.

I'd agree. The league was not as good and Jordan's supporting cast was better. Pippen learning he couldn't carry a team was probably good for them, and Tony Kukoc and Rodman were better 3rd and 4th guys than on the previous 3 peat.

On the same note, the West of this year was clearly the weakest the conference has been in many years.

 

[GatorAZ]

I don't buy his game was wiser. Jordan was already 28, had won a title and was flat out, beyond dominating in every single way, offensively and defensively with the '92 team. And I think that the league was watered down in 1996. The Magic were already completely dysfunctional by the playoffs, with Shaq having one foot out the door. The Sonics were a good team, but other then that, I just don't think the league was all that good during the second 3 peat.

Jordan was more of a post up/mid-range guy into his 30's. He was still athletic but not the same explosive/above the rim scorer he was before retirement.

As for the competition there's not much difference. The East was weak throughout the 90's but the West was stronger during their second 3-peat.

 

[Dude]

I would suggest you don't watch much basketball then if you think the rules don't matter. First off, Golden State is an excellent defensive team in it's own right. But the Bulls perimeter defense wouldn't be anywhere near as effective under the current rules. It's not a little thing, the rules interpretations/changes have greatly assisted the perimeter shooter and to a lesser extent, the player that penetrates from the perimeter.

The advantage the Warriors would have scoring 3 points to the Bulls 2 points time and again cannot be overstated. You could build a championship team around Jordan in any time frame but that team, as it was, wouldn't have a chance in today's rules. Not a chance. The same is probably true the other way around, this Warriors teams would still be very good but not great if they were playing under the rules in the Jordan era. But, IMO, that Bulls team wouldn't even be the second best team in today's game.

Right? M.J. rules. Beat him up. They stopped some of that he gets 6 rings. Today's rules. Pippin is M.J. and M.J. goes for 60 at will. The bulls D was not a big team they could stop and run with G.S.. G.S. could do nothing to stop the bulls.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Right? M.J. rules. Beat him up. They stopped some of that he gets 6 rings. Today's rules. Pippin is M.J. and M.J. goes for 60 at will. The bulls D was not a big team they could stop and run with G.S.. G.S. could do nothing to stop the bulls.

I'm sorry, I can't figure out what you're saying here although I know what your destination is, somewhere in the neighborhood of Curry and the Warriors are overrated. I think you're wrong but we'll never know. All we do know is that Curry is dominating the game right now in much the same way that only a small handful of greats have done in the past.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm sorry, I can't figure out what you're saying here although I know what your destination is, somewhere in the neighborhood of Curry and the Warriors are overrated. I think you're wrong but we'll never know. All we do know is that Curry is dominating the game right now in much the same way that only a small handful of greats have done in the past.

And NO ONE has ever shot like this. Its not just the percentages, its the volume, the contested shots, and the distance.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm sorry, I can't figure out what you're saying here although I know what your destination is, somewhere in the neighborhood of Curry and the Warriors are overrated. I think you're wrong but we'll never know. All we do know is that Curry is dominating the game right now in much the same way that only a small handful of greats have done in the past.

I don't agree that Curry and Warriors are overrated considering where the rules and the league stand today. Even with the record, I think it's just ridiculous to put him in the same sentence as MJ no matter how good of a shooter he is. It's still a stretch IMO to compare it to that Bulls team above. I mean Pippen, The Worm and MJ? Give me those three guys over the Golden State's top 3. That's just me and I HATED the Bulls.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't agree that Curry and Warriors are overrated considering where the rules and the league stand today. Even with the record, I think it's just ridiculous to put him in the same sentence as MJ no matter how good of a shooter he is. It's still a stretch IMO to compare it to that Bulls team above. I mean Pippen, The Worm and MJ? Give me those three guys over the Golden State's top 3. That's just me and I HATED the Bulls.

Well, I can live with being called ridiculous. I absolutely think his brief stretch of greatness compares with MJ's best stretch of greatness. Curry would need to sustain this greatness for several more years to truly be in Jordan's class but for the past 2 seasons, Curry has dominated the league in much the same way Michael did.

And saying Curry is just a good shooter is like saying the sun is warm. Curry is a shooter without equal in the history of the NBA. Think about that, WITHOUT EQUAL, and his skill is by far the single most important skill in the game of basketball. But in addition to being the greatest shooter in the history of the NBA, he is also great at several other aspects of the game. He's a great player plain and simple.

 

[Covert Rain]

Well, I can live with being called ridiculous. I absolutely think his brief stretch of greatness compares with MJ's best stretch of greatness. Curry would need to sustain this greatness for several more years to truly be in Jordan's class but for the past 2 seasons, Curry has dominated the league in much the same way Michael did.

And saying Curry is just a good shooter is like saying the sun is warm. Curry is a shooter without equal in the history of the NBA. Think about that, WITHOUT EQUAL, and his skill is by far the single most important skill in the game of basketball. But in addition to being the greatest shooter in the history of the NBA, he is also great at several other aspects of the game. He's a great player plain and simple.

When Curry has as many rings, has done it constantly over the course of his career I would be willing to have that debate. Considering some of the teams in that era, the superstars in that era and the rules of that time? As much as I love to watch this team and Curry....I just don't see it.

Also, MJ was not only unstoppable around the rim but his midrange game was as well. Give me that guy over a guy that relies on the 3 for 55% of his game today and every day. I concede that he may change my mind by the time his career is over....but not now. I can see Curry possibly going down as the greatest shooter of all time but that is not the same thing as the greatest player of all time.

 

[AzStevenCal]

When Curry has as many rings, has done it constantly over the course of his career I would be willing to have that debate. Considering some of the teams in that era, the superstars in that era and the rules of that time? As much as I love to watch this team and Curry....I just don't see it.

Also, MJ was not only unstoppable around the rim but his midrange game was as well. Give me that guy over a guy that relies on the 3 for 55% of his game today and every day. I concede that he may change my mind by the time his career is over....but not now. I can see Curry possibly going down as the greatest shooter of all time but that is not the same thing as the greatest player of all time.

I'm not in that debate. I agree it's absurd to put Curry's short time at the top up there with Jordan's incredible career. I pointed that out myself.

But I can't understand your choosing to look at shooting distances to make your point. The game has changed and the 3 point shot is like Samuel Colt, it's made size advantages a thing of the past. If there were no 3 point shot, Curry would still be the greatest shooter of all time. But you can bet he'd have a lot more 8 footers in his box scores. The league wants to give him an extra point every time he makes a 30 foot layup, he'd be a fool not to take that extra point. And he's no fool.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm not in that debate. I agree it's absurd to put Curry's short time at the top up there with Jordan's incredible career. I pointed that out myself.

But I can't understand your choosing to look at shooting distances to make your point. The game has changed and the 3 point shot is like Samuel Colt, it's made size advantages a thing of the past. If there were no 3 point shot, Curry would still be the greatest shooter of all time. But you can bet he'd have a lot more 8 footers in his box scores. The league wants to give him an extra point every time he makes a 30 foot layup, he'd be a fool not to take that extra point. And he's no fool.

I can say that because I don't know if you took the 3 point shot away from him and let's say he had to rely 40% more on shooting in the lane or with his back to the basket he is the same guy. I watched Jordan for years go up against HOF defenders, put his back to the basket and swish turnaround jumpers like there was nobody there. I am not sure if you asked Curry do do the same thing...he is as effective as spotting up and shooting the 3 55% of the time. The NBA has never seen a player shoot as well as he does from the 3. What happens when the league adjusts? How will it impact his game? It's hard to tell right now because the 3 point game is the main arsenal he has right now and nobody can stop him from out there.

Maybe he could be just as effective. I would just like to see how his game holds up if he can't rely on the 3 so much. Do you honestly think that defenses won't eventually figure it out or the NBA won't move the 3 point line back? I want to see what happens then before I start making any comparisons to the greatest players of all time. Like I said....he might be perfectly capable of changing my mind.

Until then I am going to enjoy this guy shooting lights out. It's unreal and I am a fan. I am still sore about the trade that didn't happen with the Suns. I swear this franchise is king of "ALMOST".

 

[nashman]

NBA will not move the 3 point line because of one player that's absurd! He is a freak of nature and the best pure shooter the game has ever seen and just put up arguably one of the best seasons for a player ever shattering all sorts of records. I'm just gonna sit back and watch that team and he play amazing fun basketball!

 

[JCSunsfan]

So. This article says that Draymond Green was most effective when playing center. At 6' 7" , championship, maybe two this year. Single season wins record.

What does this say about the center position and the future of the NBA?

http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...Like-NBAs-2nd-Best-Player-When-Playing-Center

 

[Covert Rain]

NBA will not move the 3 point line because of one player that's absurd! He is a freak of nature and the best pure shooter the game has ever seen and just put up arguably one of the best seasons for a player ever shattering all sorts of records. I'm just gonna sit back and watch that team and he play amazing fun basketball!

No they wouldn't. However, I have read that even before Curry turned into the 3 point monster they have been considering moving it back. Much of that talk started when the Suns were making it look easy and other teams followed. Curry might just seal the deal.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm not in that debate. I agree it's absurd to put Curry's short time at the top up there with Jordan's incredible career. I pointed that out myself.

But I can't understand your choosing to look at shooting distances to make your point. The game has changed and the 3 point shot is like Samuel Colt, it's made size advantages a thing of the past. If there were no 3 point shot, Curry would still be the greatest shooter of all time. But you can bet he'd have a lot more 8 footers in his box scores. The league wants to give him an extra point every time he makes a 30 foot layup, he'd be a fool not to take that extra point. And he's no fool.

yeah, even though I think in a series, the Bulls would win more likely then not, Curry is playing at a Jordan-esque level right now. He's just doing things that no one's ever seen. The only games I've watched all season were a couple Suns games, and then big Warrior games, simply to see what he's doing. It's the only reason I'm interested in the playoffs at all is to watch someone play at the level Curry's playing at.