Warriors @ Suns 11-9-14

[sunsfan88]

C'mon dude, way to show your condolence. We grieve in different ways. The way IT handle his loss may not be the same way Torrey does his, losing a loved one is never easy.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't intend to say "Well IT could have still had a great game, look what Torrey did!".

Looking back to my post, I can see why it could be interpreted like that.

Yes, I definitely think its normal and humane for him to not be focused on basketball after such an event. Props to him for even suiting up and playing, most guys wouldn't even do that.

Like I said earlier, best wishes.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think you could have said that more respectfully (not just to me, but IT), but that's fine, I have noticed your snarky remarks lately on both forums. Quite unusual of you but I kinda let it go earlier thinking you may be dealing with something in your personal life and you were letting off the steam here.

Are you kidding me? You're such a sanctimonious...

About half of Steve's posts are sarcastic, you just have thin skin.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Bledsoe only 22 mins, 6 PTS and 4 assists?? Ughhh... Glad we won, but man...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AzStevenCal]

Bledsoe only 22 mins, 6 PTS and 4 assists?? Ughhh... Glad we won, but man...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, he's not playing well right now. It's not just his shot either, he's isn't himself on either end of the court.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think you could have said that more respectfully (not just to me, but IT), but that's fine, I have noticed your snarky remarks lately on both forums. Quite unusual of you but I kinda let it go earlier thinking you may be dealing with something in your personal life and you were letting off the steam here.

Anyway, I didn't even know his grandfather passed away. Extremely sorry for him and my best wishes to him and has family. That said, there have been athletes who have used such a tragic event to motivate themselves even more, playing proudly for their loved one they lost

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...-sparks-baltimore-ravens-after-brothers-death

Yeah I could have found a better way to point this out.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah, he's not playing well right now. It's not just his shot either, he's isn't himself on either end of the court.

Steve

Its like two of the three pg's can have a good game, but never all three in one game. Sometimes its only one, but never all three.

 

[Chaz]

I thought Bledsoe had some really good stretches of defense on Curry last night.
3 or 4 possessions in a row he was locked in and really shut him down.

On offense he needs to be aggressive and keep moving when he is in there. He looks a little unsure of how he fits in.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I thought Bledsoe had some really good stretches of defense on Curry last night.
3 or 4 possessions in a row he was locked in and really shut him down.

On offense he needs to be aggressive and keep moving when he is in there. He looks a little unsure of how he fits in.

He did and he played pretty good defense against the Lakers too but I was talking in general, not just last night.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Its like two of the three pg's can have a good game, but never all three in one game. Sometimes its only one, but never all three.

And we need all three to show up. Or maybe it's more accurate to throw Green in there and say we need at least three of them to show up. I still believe they'll figure it out but there's one guy dribbling and a lot of guys standing around. That's not too effective against all the zone we've been facing.

Steve

 

[slinslin]

Our offense looks terrible no matter if it is Thomas, Dragic or Bledsoe running it we are the worst team in terms of ball movement I can remember watching.

I have a hard time identifying any plays that we execute with a purpose other than pick and roll.

 

[sunsfan88]

Its like two of the three pg's can have a good game, but never all three in one game. Sometimes its only one, but never all three.

If you think about it, I don't think it's realistic to expect Thomas, Dragic AND Bledsoe to have good games. There's one ball and there's only 48 mins.

The point of the three headed monster is so that when the defense focuses on one guy (the guy who will have a bad game), the other two can take advantage and get it going. Also, instead of being doomed if one guy just is off, we now have two others to count.

I can't imagine Dragic, Bledsoe and Thomas all scoring 16+ pts (on good efficiency) in one game unless at least one of them does it off of spot up shooting.

 

[BC867]

I should have said . . .

Are you talking about 5'1 Isaiah Thomas? He's as much a combo guard IMO as any of our other combo guards. IMO, they won it because the refs flipped their script and decided to screw the Warriors instead of us. Or they won it because of Tucker's hustle and intensity. Or they won it because Green and Thomas were hot. I don't think Green got hot because there was a traditional point guard next to him. You could put him next to a penguin and if it's Green's time to get hot, he'll burn the nets. But Thomas notwithstanding, you could make the case we won it by going big. The turnaround with Thomas, Green, Tucker, MM15 and Plumlee was fun to watch.

Steve

In retrospect, I should have said "playing the Point" in the 4th quarter, rather than refer to IT as a "pure Point Guard". Roles were defined in the 4th quarter and we blew out the team with the only undefeated record in the NBA.

What was intended to be a tactic to confuse the opposition (alternating Point Guards, not only from game to game but play to play) has confused the Suns offense more.

I am going on record as saying that the experiment of two Guards alternating the Point, no matter how long it is prolonged, is a failure! Even if one or both are shoot-first Guards.

Whether last season or this, the results of Dragic and Bledsoe sharing the Point has resulted in (most of the time) one emerging as the leader for a game, with the other shrinking into the background. It defeats the whole purpose.

And now we are stuck with it until the roster can be reshaped.

Most of the time, basics and tradition exist because it has worked. When your two best players (or, in our case, three) share the same role, it causes confusion, bruised egos and leaves a void in a team looking to advance each year.

 

[elindholm]

I've said it before, but having someone like Green who is a real catch-and-shoot threat makes the PG's job a lot easier. Thomas's and Green's games complement each other in a way that Dragic's and Bledsoe's cannot. That's why the offense has generally looked smoother with Thomas running it than it has with either Dragic or Bledsoe.

 

[BC867]

I was curious about the individual stats of our 3-headed Point position through these first 7 games. There are certainly factors involved beyond stats (home vs. away; competition; matchups; back-to-back; who is playing what position; etc.) But I looked at it as a jumping off point. Here are the raw stats.

...................................................DRAGIC.....BLEDSOE.....THOMAS..
DATE...WHERE....W-L....OPPONENT...PTS/ASST...PTS/ASST....PTS/ASST

10/29...HOME....WON....Lakers............18/2..........16/9...........23/3.....
10/31...HOME....WON....Spurs.............10/1..........12/3...........23/4.....
11/1.....AWAY....LOST...Jazz.................6/1..........10/8...........10-2.....
11/4.....AWAY....WON...Lakers............16/4............6/1...........22/9.....
11/5.....HOME....LOST...Grizzlies...........6/3..........23/4...........15/2.....
11/7.....HOME....LOST...Kings..............22-4..........23-8............3/4.....
11/9.....HOME....WON...Warriers..........19/3...........9-3...........22-7.....

The Suns records for these first 7 games is 4-3 (considering 5 of their first 7 games were at home.

http://www.popcornmachine.net/

Here are the 7-game averages for the 3-headed Point.

PLAYER......MINUTES....POINTS....ASSISTS

DRAGIC........32.1.........14.4..........2.6.....
BLEDSOE......31.0.........14.1..........5.1.....
THOMAS.......24.4.........16.9..........4.4.....

Dragic' minutes per game lead the team. Bledsoe's assists per game lead the team. Thomas' points per game lead the team.

Dragic and Bledsoe both scored in double figures in only 3 of the 7 games.

My reaction? I stick with the opinion that this arrangement is going to blow up. Why?

Dragic has been removed from the role that earned him 3rd Team All NBA last season.

Bledsoe came here to get out of the shadows of a lead Point Guard and has not.

Thomas is showing up both of them because, of the three, only his role is clearly defined. Run the point when he is in the game. His points already lead the other two and his assists per minutes played also lead them.

Still, all the stats in the world are not going to make up for loss of pride and chemistry.

 

[SirStefan32]

While I am glad that other people are coming around to my way of thinking (2PGs and no SG is not an ideal setup) but I wanted to point out one additional thing.

Watch the game, and keep an eye on Hornacek every time the Suns get a rebound or a steal. You'll notice that 80% of the time, he is yelling and motioning for them to run.

I noticed this, and then kept watching who had the ball when he'd start motioning for them to run. Bledsoe appears to have zero interest in running, unless he has a clear path to the basket. Isaiah seems to "forget" that the Suns want to run. I think he is used to playing half-court sets, and sometimes it takes him a second before he realizes he wants to run. Dragic seems to get it, though sometimes he doesn't make the outlet pass (same goes for Bledsoe and IT) to one of the other PGs.

Hornacek needs to make everyone watch the footage of the 80's Lakers. Kurt Rambis was probably the best one out of all of them at getting the rebound and throwing the ball to Magic within a second.

Next game- just watch Hornacek every time the Suns get the ball (rebound, steal, or an unforced turnover.) It is hilarious to watch. "Go, go, go, run, run run" while motioning for them to do so the entire game.

 

[AzStevenCal]

While I am glad that other people are coming around to my way of thinking (2PGs and no SG is not an ideal setup) but I wanted to point out one additional thing.

Watch the game, and keep an eye on Hornacek every time the Suns get a rebound or a steal. You'll notice that 80% of the time, he is yelling and motioning for them to run.

I noticed this, and then kept watching who had the ball when he'd start motioning for them to run. Bledsoe appears to have zero interest in running, unless he has a clear path to the basket. Isaiah seems to "forget" that the Suns want to run. I think he is used to playing half-court sets, and sometimes it takes him a second before he realizes he wants to run. Dragic seems to get it, though sometimes he doesn't make the outlet pass (same goes for Bledsoe and IT) to one of the other PGs.

Hornacek needs to make everyone watch the footage of the 80's Lakers. Kurt Rambis was probably the best one out of all of them at getting the rebound and throwing the ball to Magic within a second.

Next game- just watch Hornacek every time the Suns get the ball (rebound, steal, or an unforced turnover.) It is hilarious to watch. "Go, go, go, run, run run" while motioning for them to do so the entire game.

It happened a lot last year too. Dragic would push the pace like Jeff wanted but Bledsoe wouldn't. He pulled him because of it and I think he's doing it now too. Eric just has to get with the program. I don't think he's intentionally defying the Coach, it's just a big change from what he's used to.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't know if pushing the ball all game and running with it as soon as you get a rebound is such a great idea. I feel like it can tire out the Suns players by the end of the game, and even towards the end of the season. Plus it could lead to less effort on the defensive end if you put in more energy pushing the ball up. Dragic pushes the ball up more than Bledsoe but Bledsoe also spends way more defensive effort than Dragic.

I think Hornacek needs to create some halfcourt plays instead of constantly harping on them to push the ball up. I don't usually agree with slinslin, but he's right...the only play the Suns properly execute in their halfcourt offense is the pick and roll.

That's unacceptable. A professional basketball team must be able to have multiple halfcourt plays that they can go to other than just pick and rolls and iso plays.

Hornacek needs to spend more time practicing halfcourt offense with the players and less time transition basketball. The elite teams in the league who get in transition always also have halfcourt plays that they can go to (Warriors, Spurs etc.). Suns need that too.

 

[Mainstreet]

While I am glad that other people are coming around to my way of thinking (2PGs and no SG is not an ideal setup) but I wanted to point out one additional thing.

Watch the game, and keep an eye on Hornacek every time the Suns get a rebound or a steal. You'll notice that 80% of the time, he is yelling and motioning for them to run.

I noticed this, and then kept watching who had the ball when he'd start motioning for them to run. Bledsoe appears to have zero interest in running, unless he has a clear path to the basket. Isaiah seems to "forget" that the Suns want to run. I think he is used to playing half-court sets, and sometimes it takes him a second before he realizes he wants to run. Dragic seems to get it, though sometimes he doesn't make the outlet pass (same goes for Bledsoe and IT) to one of the other PGs.

Hornacek needs to make everyone watch the footage of the 80's Lakers. Kurt Rambis was probably the best one out of all of them at getting the rebound and throwing the ball to Magic within a second.

Next game- just watch Hornacek every time the Suns get the ball (rebound, steal, or an unforced turnover.) It is hilarious to watch. "Go, go, go, run, run run" while motioning for them to do so the entire game.

Or, have the Suns players watch video of the Suns playing SSOL under coach Mike D'Antoni. Just add some defense to the mix.

 

[devilalum]

Or, have the Suns players watch video of the Suns playing SSOL under coach Mike D'Antoni. Just add some defense to the mix.

SSOL was all Nash. Watch all you want.

 

[SirStefan32]

SSOL was all Nash. Watch all you want.

I agree, BUT Nash required someone to get him the basketball after steals, rebounds, etc.

 

[Mainstreet]

SSOL was all Nash. Watch all you want.

This does not take away from the principles of SSOL, getting the ball up court quickly before the defense gets set, application of proper spacing, plus putting shooters on the court. DA was lucky enough to get Nash to run SSOL but getting quick easy scores was the foundation. So if the Suns want to run, watching video of the DA years in Phoenix can give insight on how to do it.

In regard to Hornacek, IMO he wants to run a similar offense except there are some differences. First, he wants to play a traditional center even if they cannot hit the outside shot; second, he wants the Suns to play defense; and third, Hornacek is willing to use an extended bench.

 

[BC867]

I don't know if pushing the ball all game and running with it as soon as you get a rebound is such a great idea. I feel like it can tire out the Suns players by the end of the game, and even towards the end of the season.

The Suns are in a good position to not be hampered by that consequence. Most of the time all of our starters are not all of our finishers.

Best case in point is Thomas. With Dragic (3rd Team All NBA once Bledsoe went down with injury) and IT dividing the Point (and Bledsoe out of the picture again), they will both be fresh.

And if you want to give each of them more than 24 minutes per game, Dragic could back up Green at the 2-Guard (while developing younger players there). Remember that Green was consistently good last season as a starter.

A 3-Guard rotation of Dragic & Green with IT off the bench would give the Suns much more chemistry than Dragic & Bledsoe as starting Guards, with one of them taking a back seat most of the time.

Of course, the Suns defense coach would have to work with all three to bring them up to the point of defensively acceptable.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns are in a good position to not be hampered by that consequence. Most of the time all of our starters are not all of our finishers.

Best case in point is Thomas. With Dragic (3rd Team All NBA once Bledsoe went down with injury) and IT dividing the Point (and Bledsoe out of the picture again), they will both be fresh.

And if you want to give each of them more than 24 minutes per game, Dragic could back up Green at the 2-Guard (while developing younger players there). Remember that Green was consistently good last season as a starter.

A 3-Guard rotation of Dragic & Green with IT off the bench would give the Suns much more chemistry than Dragic & Bledsoe as starting Guards, with one of them taking a back seat most of the time.

Of course, the Suns defense coach would have to work with all three to bring them up to the point of defensively acceptable.

Bledsoe's defense isn't up to his standards of last season but he's still far superior to our other guards. I know that as a former Celtics fan that you're all about the offense but I still think there's a place for a little defense. And I don't care how much the Suns Defensive Coach works with those guards, they'll likely never be in Bledsoe's class.

Although Dragic carried us once Bledsoe went down, he was pretty special in December too with Eric still in the lineup. We faced and beat some pretty solid teams that month. We were a very good team during that stretch from November 20th (when Goran finally came alive) through the end of 2013, with wins over playoff teams such as Charlotte, Portland, Houston, Toronto, Golden State, Dallas and the Clippers.

I submit he earned his 3rd team recognition almost as much during this stretch as he did in January and February where he continued to excel without Eric. Of course, being left off the All Star game probably had something to do with him making 3rd team all NBA. The suggestion that he was overlooked because he was from Europe got a lot of play here and I'm sure it got even more play in his homeland and overseas in general.

Steve

 

[BC867]

I know that as a former Celtics fan...

Close, Steve. I was a Knicks fan raised in NJ, especially during their heyday of two championships in 1970 and '73.

Willis Reed, Dave DeBusschere, Dollar Bill Bradley, Clyde Frazier, Dick Barnett and then Earl The Pearl. Coached by Red Holzman. The most intelligent team in NBA history.

When I moved to Phoenix five years later in 1978, the first game I saw at the Madhouse on McDowell was the visiting Knicks vs. the Suns.

During the first half, I rooted for my longtime favorites, the Knicks. By the second half, I was rooting for my new hometown favorites, the Suns -- finesse ball and all.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Close, Steve. I was a Knicks fan raised in NJ, especially during their heyday of two championships in 1970 and '73.

Willis Reed, Dave DeBusschere, Dollar Bill Bradley, Clyde Frazier, Dick Barnett and then Earl The Pearl. Coached by Red Holzman. The most intelligent team in NBA history.

When I moved to Phoenix five years later in 1978, the first game I saw at the Madhouse on McDowell was the visiting Knicks vs. the Suns.

During the first half, I rooted for my longtime favorites, the Knicks. By the second half, I was rooting for my new hometown favorites, the Suns -- finesse ball and all.

It was a typo. Yeah, that's the ticket. I knew you were a Knicks fan, I just went brain dead for a minute. I think I swapped your history with the other old really old guy. Us kids make mistakes like that you know? And I've never seen finesse ball. Just that orange thing.

Steve