Watching the Twins succeed from afar.....

[JCSunsfan]

I am pro-trade but love Mikal that's why. I want to see him succeed and love what he is doing. You are acting like you can't be both. It was the right move for the Suns to maximize our chances but he is still one of my favorite players.

Why can't you admire what he is doing and still be pro-trade? It's not like loving Mikal requires you hate the trade and constantly remind people it was a bad trade in your opinion.

This

 

[Covert Rain]

And it sucks, I get it. I want it to end too but I can only hold myself responsible. I'm trying to keep any discussion of the deal here in this thread so long as I'm involved.

To each his own. I am going to continue to monitor Bridges because I am a fan. Not going to engage with the back and forth. I will simply put the complainers on ignore if need be. I am not going to tell people what to post and not post.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

So no one is allowed to have an opinion other than yours? I thought you said Steve was the board police?

Why are you arguing with them than? Are they allowed to have an opinion that's different from yours? It's a discussion forum where we discuss our differing opinions and we know what discussion is being had in this thread so we keep coming back to it.

The poster that made this thread was actually for the trade, but like most of us has become a fan of Mikal and Cam and therefor wanted to have a thread to continue to talk about them "from afar". This thread was never designed for people to come in and say "I told you so".

 

[Mainstreet]

But they didn’t have a pile of chips, we had an at the end Paul, solid Bridges, walking injury CJ, no Crowder, arguably a big in DA that would rather be elsewhere? So where is this core that was shaping into a championship team? All of this and they have failed in epic fashion the last two years, were they all of a sudden gonna get better and the rest of the NBA worse? I mean the draft picks are trash anyways as they are late round and Suns wouldn’t use them anyway just trade fodder. With Book and KD and Ayton you can almost interchange the 5 spot and PG and be a very good team for years. KD can jump shoot his way for years not like relies on athleticism for his game. New owner willing to spend get a solid young PG and we good for years…

How would you feel if the Cardinals made this type of trade for a 34 year old star defensive end?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Why are you arguing with them than? Are they allowed to have an opinion that's different from yours? It's a discussion forum where we discuss our differing opinions and we know what discussion is being had in this thread so we keep coming back to it.

The poster that made this thread was actually for the trade, but like most of us has become a fan of Mikal and Cam and therefor wanted to have a thread to continue to talk about them "from afar". This thread was never designed for people to come in and say "I told you so".

Has there been much of that in this thread? If so, I've skipped it. Mikal might be all-time favorite player but KD has him beat in every way but personality. I read this thread because I think fondly of Bridges and CamJ but nothing they do or don't do affects my opinion on the trade.

 

[Mainstreet]

When they made the run the west wasn’t the same let’s be real! The Warriors, Lakers, others were all down that year or in the playoffs at least. Last year we struggled with the Pelicans then got embarrassed by a hot shooting Dallas team, and Brdiges and Cam and many honestly disappeared in the playoffs. Shoot we don’t get past the Pels if CP3 doesn’t put up a historic performance and run himself out of gas … This team NEEDED Durant fact! No minor moves were putting us into honest contention.

When you play the game, you play the cards dealt you. It's as simple as that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The thread was meant to talk about a couple of fan favorites that are no longer on the team. Then once Bridges started to put up some big scoring numbers it has turned into a discussion of why we should have not made the trade because he could have simply been doing this here and we could have made different trades.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think you might be reading more into it than is intended. I know there's been a lot of discussion about "could he have done it here" and "why didn't he do it here" but I don't think most of that is a direct attempt to say "Mikal had a great night so we shouldn't have made the trade". I know it's happened, I just think it's by far the minority of what's been posted here. Just like I think the opposite posts of "see, he had a bad night and that justifies the trade" are a distinct minority.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Has there been much of that in this thread? If so, I've skipped it. Mikal might be all-time favorite player but KD has him beat in every way but personality. I read this thread because I think fondly of Bridges and CamJ but nothing they do or don't do affects my opinion on the trade.

I mean this whole thread has turned into a discussion about why the trade should or shouldn't have happened. It is fueled by him having good games in Brooklyn. Exactly who started it, I'm not sure, but that was ultimately never the intent of the tread even though it may have been obvious that's where it would go.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I mean this whole thread has turned into a discussion about why the trade should or shouldn't have happened. It is fueled by him having good games in Brooklyn. Exactly who started it, I'm not sure, but that was ultimately never the intent of the tread even though it may have been obvious that's where it would go.

Well, then, let's change it. I think Mikal and CamJ are making a weak team slightly better, good for them. And I think it's great that Mikal especially is thriving even when the defense is focused on him. I love the guy but I didn't think he had that in him.

 

[Hoop Head]

The thread was meant to talk about a couple of fan favorites that are no longer on the team. Then once Bridges started to put up some big scoring numbers it has turned into a discussion of why we should have not made the trade because he could have simply been doing this here and we could have made different trades.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone but I am open to discussing things. I don't believe my opinion is the only one that matters or is right, it's my opinion just like how you have your own as well.


Not every post about what Mikal is doing in Brooklyn is calling for the trade to be walked back. Some feel the need to add commentary to posts about what he's doing and that's their prerogative. I can only control what I say. I try and talk about what Mikal is doing elsewhere, or how he was used (or misused) here but when it ends up devolving back to whether he should have been traded and I try and take a step back then because it's all been said, nothing we can do. I only step back in when the discussions changed or someone tries misinterpreting or misrepresenting what I've said.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I'm not trying to argue with anyone but I am open to discussing things. I don't believe my opinion is the only one that matters or is right, it's my opinion just like how you have your own as well.


Not every post about what Mikal is doing in Brooklyn is calling for the trade to be walked back. Some feel the need to add commentary to posts about what he's doing and that's their prerogative. I can only control what I say. I try and talk about what Mikal is doing elsewhere, or how he was used (or misused) here but when it ends up devolving back to whether he should have been traded and I try and take a step back then because it's all been said, nothing we can do. I only step back in when the discussions changed or someone tries misinterpreting or misrepresenting what I've said.

I am all for simply discussing what they are doing now (that's the intent of the thread) and even discussion about how he could have done it here if managed differently. Though I can easily see how people could see that as a way of saying the trade is bad and that Mikal should have just been given more of a chance to create.

 

[nashman]

How would you feel if the Cardinals made this type of trade for a 34 year old star defensive end?

Not the same sport lol, not even remotely the same thing. As previously mentioned KD doesn’t rely on athleticism to be great, football is almost purely that. But if you wanted to compare Brady would be an old guy that people would have given the farm for who won a championship for the Bucs while much older than other NFL players.

 

[nashman]

When you play the game, you play the cards dealt you. It's as simple as that.

Not saying you don’t just being real, that team didn’t win the championship even, but you think a 2 year older broken version of Paul and the same choking crew was gonna get it done with a few small additions? Imo that’s just fantasy land see game 7 or any game where teams just double triple Book and make someone else beat them, and mostly the guys did NOT step up. This team needed a Durant not a Bridges!

 

[Mainstreet]

@Dr. Jones

I know this thread was well-intentioned, but I'd like to see it closed because it has served its purpose. It now serves to divide the forum into two camps.

As I view it, it was meant to follow the progress of Cam Johnson and Mikal Bridges in a positive light.

However, it has turned the Suns forum into a daily battleground about the equity of the trade for Kevin Durant. We are not watching the twins from afar, but rather up close and personal. The discussion is now a wedge dividing posters.

I think any further comments about the twins can still be mentioned in the "Around the NBA Thread" and in general discussion elsewhere.

We need to move forward. I think a thread devoted to them, tends to inflame the situation.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I know you were talking about the injuries to other teams but Dario counts as well.

If Saric didn't go down in the Finals, who is to say the Suns don't win that series. It was a devastating loss to the Suns interior defense and momentum.

To even TRY to equate Dario’s injuries to ANTHONY DAVIS, KAWHI LEONARD AND JAMAL MURRAY is preposterous. Like beyond the most specious of specious arguments ever made.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Giannis' secondest highest scoring game in the finals was game 2. He didn't flip a switch after it. He had 42 points. The only time we contained him was when we had Dario to throw at him in game 1 and Frank also saw time. Why Frank wasn't used more is another issue but without Dario, Giannis ran rampant. Those 5 games he averaged 38, 12 boards, and 5 assists. The 1 game he played against more of a big rotation, 20 points, 17 boards, and 4 assists. So he gobbled up rebounds but at least he didn't beat us scoring. Dario was a difference maker.

To be clear though I don't think Dario specifically leads us to a title. We needed another big to play in his place and Monty didn't trust Frank so Ayton had virtually no rest. Had we had Javale, Jock or Biyombo then I believe we win that series. The Bucks didn't demolish the Suns, the Suns were within seconds and 1-2 possessions of winning games 4 & 5. Game 3 was the only game Milwaukee truly beat the Suns without the game coming down to the final minute.

To give Dario the credit there in Game 1 COMPLETELY IGNORES that Giannis wasn’t even expected to play game 1 because he was still rehabbing from that gruesome looking injury he suffered midway through the ECF and was still getting his legs back under him.

My lord… some of the arguments being made this morning are crazy.

 

[AzStevenCal]

@Dr. Jones

I know this thread was well-intentioned, but I'd like to see it closed because it has served its purpose. It now serves to divide the forum into two camps.

As I view it, it was meant to follow the progress of Cam Johnson and Mikal Bridges in a positive light.

However, it has turned the Suns forum into a daily battleground about the equity of the trade for Kevin Durant. We are not watching the twins from afar, but rather up close and personal. The discussion is now a wedge dividing posters.

I think any further comments about the twins can still be mentioned in the "Around the NBA Thread" and in general discussion elsewhere.

We need to move forward. I think a thread devoted to them, tends to inflame the situation.

I disagree. I think it helps a little to keep this conversation from bubbling up often across the forum. Also, I'm sure a lot of posters have just stopped visiting or contributing to this thread for the various reasons already mentioned. So I see little value in taking extra steps to curb discussion.

 

[Cheesebeef]

When I see posts stating that this trade was an obvious no brainer and anyone against it is fooling themselves then I am going to counter that notion. I'm not going out of my way to continue the debate but when I see posts that crap on the idea of the trade being questionable then I will counter it... because I think the trade was stupid.

I hope I will be proven wrong, but until then I think it was a foolish trade.

What is this forum for if not to debate this kind of stuff?

We went all in. If it doesn't yield a title then it's a freaking dumpster fire. The risk is gargantuan.... people continuously crapping on the stakes of this trade are lying to themselves.

The idea that if we don’t win a title it’s a dumpster fire presumes the team as previously constructed… which choked like DOGS two years in a row with HCA… would have definitely won a title when there is ZERO EVIDENCE that’s true.

 

[Cheesebeef]

How would you feel if the Cardinals made this type of trade for a 34 year old star defensive end?

To equate an MVP performer, still playing at an elite HOF level with a 34 year old star defensive end is the worst argument yet.

Durant isn’t the equivalent of a 34 year old star DE. He’s the equivalent of a 34 year old Aaron freaking Rodgers who totally elevates the ENTIRE TEAM.

When you have to keep making arguments this specious to support your own, maybe think about how bad your argument might be.

 

[Hoop Head]

To give Dario the credit there in Game 1 COMPLETELY IGNORES that Giannis wasn’t even expected to play game 1 because he was still rehabbing from that gruesome looking injury he suffered midway through the ECF and was still getting his legs back under him.

My lord… some of the arguments being made this morning are crazy.

Really just going to misrepresent what I said? I wasn't giving Dario credit specifically. I was refuting the idea Giannis turned it on after game 2, when game 2 was his second highest scoring game. I even said all this but go ahead and spin it how you want though. You're the reason I added the part about not specifically saying Dario Saric the player made us favorites. I don't even know why I'm bothering since you ignored that initially but I take exception to someone claiming I said something I didn't.

 

[Pokinmik]

We have lost a good amount since the trade because Durant hasn't played in every game since the trade, or even half. That's part of why the anti-trade crowd was against the deal, his health is an issue. Yes we've won when he's played but again, he hasn't played much.

Our floor is much lower now because we don't have as much depth and we lost our iron man who could be depended on nightly. We have been blown out and suffered some ugly losses this idea our floor is higher don't hold up. Yes, we're better with Durant right now but Durant is 34 years old and is available to play about as much as Anthony "Street Clothes" Davis. So when people talk like you just did about how much better we are, that will be refuted until KD proves he can stay

We have lost a good amount since the trade because Durant hasn't played in every game since the trade, or even half. That's part of why the anti-trade crowd was against the deal, his health is an issue. Yes we've won when he's played but again, he hasn't played much.

Our floor is much lower now because we don't have as much depth and we lost our iron man who could be depended on nightly. We have been blown out and suffered some ugly losses this idea our floor is higher don't hold up. Yes, we're better with Durant right now but Durant is 34 years old and is available to play about as much as Anthony "Street Clothes" Davis. So when people talk like you just did about how much better we are, that will be refuted until KD proves he can stay healthy.

Since Durant joined the team at Charlotte we’ve played 17 games and haven’t been blown out once besides GS where it kinda got away at the end when they were hot. Our floor has definitely been raised w this decent sample size. Having an alpha like Durant changes the mentality of the whole team even if he misses a game or two. Everyone has more confidence and they can fill in the gaps. Of course if he suffers a major injury then it’s a problem but you can say that about any star player. Until he suffers a major injury in a suns uni I’m not gonna act like like a whiny b*tch.

 

[Hoop Head]

Since Durant joined the team at Charlotte we’ve played 17 games and haven’t been blown out once besides GS where it kinda got away at the end when they were hot. Our floor has definitely been raised w this decent sample size. Having an alpha like Durant changes the mentality of the whole team even if he misses a game or two. Everyone has more confidence and they can fill in the gaps. Of course if he suffers a major injury then it’s a problem but you can say that about any star player. Until he suffers a major injury in a suns uni I’m not gonna act like like a whiny b*tch.

Our record without Durant is worse than it was pre-trade. We've played 27 games since the deal, hes played in 6. A loss is a loss, whether it's by 1 point or 30. They all count the same in the standings. That's why I say our floor is much lower. You can be happy for moral victories or losses by less than some arbitrary number you assign but that's you. I care about where they are in the standings and prior to KD's return they were on a losing streak that somehow they managed to snap against Philly which helped keep the season afloat because they'd just lost 6 of 7, which they didn't do prior the trade.

 

[Pokinmik]

We knew he was already recovering when we traded for him so I don’t really count that but to each their own. All I’m saying is we haven’t had the 30 point losses or down 15 or 20 in the first qtr or halftime type of games. The psyche of the team and the vibes just weren’t there anymore after we basically got exposed by NO and then DAL big time.

If anyone thinks we gave up too much that’s fair. Everyone knows this deal comes down to us winning a title or at least making another deep finals run or two. If we win a title it is absolutely worth it. There’s not much else to say. I was part of the problem even engaging on this topic I’ll bow out of this thread and enjoy the rest of the season.

 

[Covert Rain]

Our record without Durant is worse than it was pre-trade. We've played 27 games since the deal, hes played in 6. A loss is a loss, whether it's by 1 point or 30. They all count the same in the standings. That's why I say our floor is much lower. You can be happy for moral victories or losses by less than some arbitrary number you assign but that's you. I care about where they are in the standings and prior to KD's return they were on a losing streak that somehow they managed to snap against Philly which helped keep the season afloat because they'd just lost 6 of 7, which they didn't do prior the trade.

Who was on this team and how they played before KD was healthy doesn't matter because it has no bearing on how the team is playing now with KD or how they are going to play come the playoffs. NONE. It's just a different team and him being in the lineup even changes our bench. I can buy an argument that the floor might be lower. Having said that? I think the floor didn't lower as much as the celling raised.

 

[Hoop Head]

Who was on this team and how they played before KD was healthy doesn't matter because it has no bearing on how the team is playing now with KD or how they are going to play come the playoffs. NONE.

But it does because you can't guarantee his health and without him it looked we might slip out of the playoffs. So you can think it doesn't matter but it does and it even goes beyond that given how far into the luxury tax we now are because of his contract. He alone is making more than 2 starters did and he's on the books for that going forward. That impacts the level of talent we can surround him with. We're extremely limited in that regard because we don't even have a pick to add cheap young talent and will only have 1 pick in his first 3 seasons when he's most effective.

It's just a different team and him being in the lineup even changes our bench. I can buy an argument that the floor might be lower. Having said that? I think the floor didn't lower as much as the celling raised.

It is a different team now, for better and worse. Hopefully the better outweighs the worse. We don't know yet. It wasn't looking good at first but it certainly has improved over the last week or so.

My whole reply was about the floor being lower. That's what I took exception to. I definitely don't think our floor is higher now and that's what my post was refuting. At least we kind of agree in that regard. I think we can also agree that it's best for everyone if we don't learn what the floor is firsthand.