Watson got to go

[3rdside]

What Poop Head said - we're embarrassing ourselves and even with the top pick we're destroying anything that would suggest we could do something with it anyway.

 

[pokerface]

What Poop Head said - we're embarrassing ourselves and even with the top pick we're destroying anything that would suggest we could do something with it anyway.

Well maybe. But it's just three games in and he just signed a fresh extension. Plus what does he have to work with? A bunch of players that are younger than a lot of college teams and our best player is a PG...not even an all-star. And I don't see another coach unsinking this Titanic.

 

[3rdside]

I don't know what NBA coach / mgmt contracts are like but if it was me I'd have put buy out clauses in both Watson's and McD's as neither of them deserved extensions based on performance alone.

And it's not exactly a case of saying what does he have to work with I don't think, it's more what he's doing to those who he's got.

 

[Hoop Head]

Ok you have many good points. Not necessarily disagreeing with them either. But there are a lot of realities to digest.

Didn't Watson just sign a three year extension? Is Sarver going to want to eat that?

I believe Watson is in year 2 of his 3 year deal, which was signed in the 2016 offseason. I don't think he signed an extension this offseason. So Sarver would need to eat 2 years, which is questionable. He needs to quit being cheap and pay coaches though, hopefully McD can sell him on that.

I couldn't find anything about a contract he signed during the 2017 offseason but I could be wrong.

Didn't Watson just tank the suns last season? On McD's orders? I mean he's following orders on making the suns lose now he supposed to get canned three games in on this season? For losing?

Tanking last season is last season. I highly doubt he's under orders to tank right now. It's not getting fired for losing so much as getting fired for turning this team into a complete JV squad with no real plan or system for the players. If you've watched the games you can tell his substitution patterns don't make much sense and there is no offensive or defensive system of any sort. The team is playing ISO playground basketball.

Do you know what coaches are to had right now? Experienced proven coaches? Or is it just "Get anyone...just get Watson gone".

I'd assume Triano or Corbin would finish out the season, I don't have a preference on either. George Karl is available, who would be an upgrade but I'm not sure he's the right coach to develop our young players. Jeff Van Gundy's name gets mentioned a lot when coaching jobs are available but he'd require top dollar, which I doubt Sarver pays and he has no ties to McD which makes the likelihood of him coaching the Suns very slim.

Ettore Messina from San Antonio is someone who has been a longtime assistant of Pop's and I think he'd be a great hire even though he doesn't have head coaching experience. Another name that's been mentioned for head coaching jobs is Brent Barry, who is just an analyst now but he's been rumored to be the next Steve Kerr to leave the booth and be a successful head coach since he has a very high BB-IQ. No one is saying he'll win like Kerr because that's an anomaly but he could end up having a nice coaching career. Another candidate would be J.B. Bickerstaff who was a longtime assistant, starting in 2004-05, and he took over for McHale 11 games into the 2015-16 season for them and got them to the playoffs. Reports were he was well liked but then they hired D'Antoni.

More experienced head coaches though, Dave Blatt, Kevin McHale, and Monty Williams are coaches who have had success in the NBA but aren't employed as head coaches now. Williams is an assistant in OKC and I think Blatt is coaching in Europe, head coaching jobs are tough to come by though and they may be interested. Blatt is a long shot given how he was treated in Cleveland but who knows. He was originally hired to turn them around, before Lebron returned, which isn't that different from where we are. Of course Lebron returning changed everything in Cleveland but he did well despite not being someone Lebron liked so he was replaced by Lue.

Just throwing some names out there, we should go for experienced coaches though, who know their X's and O's and can implement real systems on both sides of the ball.

Didn't Booker improve on Watsons watch?
Okay maybe I'm grasping because most haven't improved much...But they are very young and some show flashes. So I don't know there.

Booker came into his own early under Hornacek and Watson hasn't really helped him develop as a player, he's just given him more minutes and a green light. I wouldn't give Watson credit for who Booker is, good or bad, but he may play better defense or at least try harder if he had a better coach.

I'm not claiming Watson is a great coach and if they dumped him I could care less. But nothing is clear...what is our options and what are we expecting? If the suns lose by twenty instead of forty then fans will get happier?

If the Suns were competitive then fans would be happier. Right now they're a joke. Not sure if you've watched any post game interviews with Watson but try to find some from this season and you might be on the fire side a bit more. How little concern he's shown is troubling. You can see a clip from the Clippers game here, what he says makes little to no sense and doesn't sound like a coach who cares how bad his team lost. "We need to sacrifice identity to be a better team." WTF does that mean? He also says the team needs to get closer, as in closer with each other, which doesn't make sense either. Chemistry is one problem but the way he addresses that sounds odd, at best.

http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/suns-routed-again-as-griffin-led-clippers-cruise-102217

 

[pokerface]

I believe Watson is in year 2 of his 3 year deal, which was signed in the 2016 offseason. I don't think he signed an extension this offseason. So Sarver would need to eat 2 years, which is questionable. He needs to quit being cheap and pay coaches though, hopefully McD can sell him on that.

I couldn't find anything about a contract he signed during the 2017 offseason but I could be wrong.



Tanking last season is last season. I highly doubt he's under orders to tank right now. It's not getting fired for losing so much as getting fired for turning this team into a complete JV squad with no real plan or system for the players. If you've watched the games you can tell his substitution patterns don't make much sense and there is no offensive or defensive system of any sort. The team is playing ISO playground basketball.



I'd assume Triano or Corbin would finish out the season, I don't have a preference on either. George Karl is available, who would be an upgrade but I'm not sure he's the right coach to develop our young players. Jeff Van Gundy's name gets mentioned a lot when coaching jobs are available but he'd require top dollar, which I doubt Sarver pays and he has no ties to McD which makes the likelihood of him coaching the Suns very slim.

Ettore Messina from San Antonio is someone who has been a longtime assistant of Pop's and I think he'd be a great hire even though he doesn't have head coaching experience. Another name that's been mentioned for head coaching jobs is Brent Barry, who is just an analyst now but he's been rumored to be the next Steve Kerr to leave the booth and be a successful head coach since he has a very high BB-IQ. No one is saying he'll win like Kerr because that's an anomaly but he could end up having a nice coaching career. Another candidate would be J.B. Bickerstaff who was a longtime assistant, starting in 2004-05, and he took over for McHale 11 games into the 2015-16 season for them and got them to the playoffs. Reports were he was well liked but then they hired D'Antoni.

More experienced head coaches though, Dave Blatt, Kevin McHale, and Monty Williams are coaches who have had success in the NBA but aren't employed as head coaches now. Williams is an assistant in OKC and I think Blatt is coaching in Europe, head coaching jobs are tough to come by though and they may be interested. Blatt is a long shot given how he was treated in Cleveland but who knows. He was originally hired to turn them around, before Lebron returned, which isn't that different from where we are. Of course Lebron returning changed everything in Cleveland but he did well despite not being someone Lebron liked so he was replaced by Lue.

Just throwing some names out there, we should go for experienced coaches though, who know their X's and O's and can implement real systems on both sides of the ball.



Booker came into his own early under Hornacek and Watson hasn't really helped him develop as a player, he's just given him more minutes and a green light. I wouldn't give Watson credit for who Booker is, good or bad, but he may play better defense or at least try harder if he had a better coach.




If the Suns were competitive then fans would be happier. Right now they're a joke. Not sure if you've watched any post game interviews with Watson but try to find some from this season and you might be on the fire side a bit more. How little concern he's shown is troubling. You can see a clip from the Clippers game here, what he says makes little to no sense and doesn't sound like a coach who cares how bad his team lost. "We need to sacrifice identity to be a better team." WTF does that mean? He also says the team needs to get closer, as in closer with each other, which doesn't make sense either. Chemistry is one problem but the way he addresses that sounds odd, at best.

http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/suns-routed-again-as-griffin-led-clippers-cruise-102217

Well good post. Very good.


You know better than me than what coaches are available. I think that assistant to Popovich is an intriguing prospect...just because I worship Pop. I just wonder why the suns settled on Watson to begin with.

I don't know...I still have mixed feelings. I have to concede a team can be too bad. Plus if Watson is acting incoherent somewhat that is troubling. I still think this year is a write off and the talent on this team is questionable. Watson may be in over his head but the team is just kids and we are only three games in.

There is plenty of time to can Watson and the suns aren't going anywhere even if they did. I still think the draft is paramount. To me not drafting in the top four ruins our future more than Watson finishing out the season. But if it's too much then bring someone else in...to make things more respectable and sane.

 

[Hoop Head]

Watson won over our roster during his time as the interim coach, his price tag of being a 1st time Head Coach won over Sarver's checkbook. Him selling the roster and virtually every player endorsing him as our next coach was something that made sense for McD to listen to but also was a mistake that a GM only makes once. The team's input matters but coming off of Hornacek's time we needed someone more experienced.

I admit I wasn't against the hiring initially, after the half season he ran the team when Hornacek was fired but he hasn't shown improvement since then. He may have had a chance to be a decent coach but he became a HC too soon, it doesn't help he was Hornacek's assistant as well since they both are similar in terms of implementing styles of play or a system.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

I never wanted Watson as a coach. Just listening to the man speak was a big turnoff for me. That kumbaya crap might work with college kids or younger but in the pros Im sure it wore thin pretty quick. I think his first year success had more to do with Brian Hill than anything Watson was doing. I noticed a difference in performance when Hill wasnt retained the following season. Watson doesnt know what he's doing and has lost this team and needs to be fired now. Let Corbin finish the season and then start the HC search next year.

 

[SirStefan32]

I actually like Watson's "We are a family, we need to work together, grow together, sing kumbaya" approach. That said, the results are just not there. It's not even about wins and losses. They just look awful. Watson's got to go.

 

[Chaplin]

I actually like Watson's "We are a family, we need to work together, grow together, sing kumbaya" approach. That said, the results are just not there. It's not even about wins and losses. They just look awful. Watson's got to go.

The problem is that it’s all he talks about. Where is the strategy, the actual basketball? All the motivational stuff sounds good for fans, but in reality should that not just be a given? Why does it always have to be mentioned?

Pokerface loves his idea of tanking intentionally by keeping Watson on, but how’s it going to feel when Booker is demanding a trade because he can’t stand playing in this city and this locker room?

Losing is important, sure, but you have to do player development at the same time. If you’re not then it’s worthless. Because if you have the same coach, and you get a good draft pick, let’s say the number one pick, how we can develop that guy also?

 

[SirStefan32]

The problem is that it’s all he talks about. Where is the strategy, the actual basketball? All the motivational stuff sounds good for fans, but in reality should that not just be a given? Why does it always have to be mentioned?

Pokerface loves his idea of tanking intentionally by keeping Watson on, but how’s it going to feel when Booker is demanding a trade because he can’t stand playing in this city and this locker room?

Losing is important, sure, but you have to do player development at the same time. If you’re not then it’s worthless. Because if you have the same coach, and you get a good draft pick, let’s say the number one pick, how we can develop that guy also?

I agree with everything in this post, but your second paragraph is the most important factor to think about. I understand the desire to just keep tanking for years, but people don't think about what losing and getting humiliated on the court night after night does to the psyche of young players.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I agree with everything in this post, but your second paragraph is the most important factor to think about. I understand the desire to just keep tanking for years, but people don't think about what losing and getting humiliated on the court night after night does to the psyche of young players.

You just don't learn how to win in an environment that constantly loses. The best teams who built through the draft were only really bad for a couple seasons and then they put some solid vets around the youngsters and started trending upwards from there. After tanking last year that is the exact direction this team should have gone in, but they opted on sticking with the current roster and even going towards even more youth and that is showing the results right now. Also doesn't help that none of the young players seem to be progressing either.