"We are really close" per Coach Whiz

[Chopper0080]

For like the umpteenth time, I will repeat this. In fact, I'll simply cut-and-paste what I already wrote ON THIS PAGE OF THE THREAD. Thanks for proving that you haven't read ANY of my posts.

And I quote...myself: "When did he change? Right around when Skelton came in. Fans on this board were screaming for us to dial down the 4 and 5-wide passing scheme, call in some extra pass protection, and focus more on the run. KW refused to do this early in the season. These were easy, no-brainer fixes, but they run contrary to his 'system', and so he was stubborn and stuck to his guns. When he FINALLY adjusted, gee, it worked out pretty well. Of course, I've mentioned all of this before..."



Yeah, I and MANY others said he should be fired. It is obvious NOW that he shouldn't be fired. He was coaching like dog crap early in the season. I have outlined many times how he has indeed changed his coaching this season, so I am very much not in the wrong. AT THE TIME, he was doing a poor job, and led us to a 1-6 record. We lost close games, sure, but they may not even have been close had he done his job properly. Maybe this time you'll actually READ my reasons instead of IGNORING them.



Agreed on all points, DCR. It is good to see that SOMEONE actually reads what I post before responding to it or taking it out of context.

And this line of thinking is what I have disagreed with from the start of "fire Whis" movement. The difference between earlier in the year and now, is our defense, and the players ability to win one on one battles. I have always argued that the plays were there to make, our players just weren't making them. Now they are making those plays, and we are winning. I don't think our game plans have changed tremendously, though I guess you could argue that we run more two TE formations, though I think that we have been using a FB less now than we did earlier.

My personnal viewpoint lately has been one of patience. I think that we have all seen what constant turnover can do to this franchise, and would like to avoid it at all cost. It is good that, as a fan base, we demand wins and signs of legitimate improvement. However, we have to remember that we have the winningest coach in franchise history at the helm and have had the best 5 year stretch in as long as I can remember. Now is not the time to make wholesale changes, it is time to stay the course and slightly tweak things along the way.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Remind me to pee in your drink the next time you come up to Annapolis ;-)

Bottoms up. Besides, next time I'm there, drinks are on me!

Whiz excells in many of those areas IMO. His system is very good IMO, it just takes dedicated and intelligent players to execute it. It's not in his job description to be a good talent evaluator. That is the responsibility of the scouts and our GM. Clock management is way overrated and very tough to grade without knowing what the staff's though process is at any given time in the game. He is unquestionably a GREAT motivator IMO. When have you ever seen our team come out flat in a big game?? Seeing him elevate them for the playoffs was nothing short of miraculous for me. Fitz and Dockett have both named him as a key reason for re-signing. That alone should tell you something. His in-game adjustments have been very good IMO. How about the second half of the super bowl? How about last week in the SF game? How about when he stuck Warner in in Baltimore to run the 2 minute offense when Leinart was still the starter?

His system is good? I can't say it. To be fair, I can't honestly say what his system is. He came to AZ claiming to want a smashmouth style of play that was tough and disciplined. He hasn't shown that. He did to his credit used the tools (on offense only) that he had during the championship run correctly. With Warner and Boldin left this team, the style of play that brought us centimeters from the SuperBowl frankly was not possible anymore. He held onto that failed notion of an offense for nearly a season and a half before deciding it needed to go. So he gets credit for knowing that the air-it-out offense worked best for our offense for a time, but he also gets the same amount of criticism for not recognizing when it wouldn't work.

I'll simply disagree with you when it comes to clock management. It is vital to have someone call the right plays in the right situation. Not only that, but you have to be prepared for situations when they arise. While there are times you can point out that the right play was called at the right time, you could point to more examples contrary.

Come out flat? All the time. The Cards came out flat to start the SuperBowl before swinging the momentum positively before the first half and giving it back to Pittsburgh with the Harrison INT. I'd say about half of the playoff games we have come out flat with the Green Bay and New Orleans in 09 (technically they weren't flat to start, but definitely was after that Hightower TD) and Carolina in 08 being notable exceptions. Coming out flat can be either side of the ball.

I don't doubt that the re-signings of Fitz and Dockett were due in part to Whisenhunt. On the flip side, Boldin was publicly critical of Whisenhunt and could have been a reason not to re-sign. Dansby/Rolle to an extent too. Although evidence of those two is much weaker than Boldin.

His in game adjustments have been VERY poor with notable exceptions until recently. Those have been talked about a lot already in this thread. The 2nd half of the Superbowl is a notable example. His constant shotgun formations after successfully running on 1st down has been well documented here as well. 2nd and 1 or 2nd and 2 after rushing on 1st down, only to pass the ball for two successive plays is silly and just one example. If it happened rarely, it could be an anomaly.... happened way to many times for that.

Way too long of a post for me.

 

[Chopper0080]

Bottoms up. Besides, next time I'm there, drinks are on me!



His system is good? I can't say it. To be fair, I can't honestly say what his system is. He came to AZ claiming to want a smashmouth style of play that was tough and disciplined. He hasn't shown that. He did to his credit used the tools (on offense only) that he had during the championship run correctly. With Warner and Boldin left this team, the style of play that brought us centimeters from the SuperBowl frankly was not possible anymore. He held onto that failed notion of an offense for nearly a season and a half before deciding it needed to go. So he gets credit for knowing that the air-it-out offense worked best for our offense for a time, but he also gets the same amount of criticism for not recognizing when it wouldn't work.

I'll simply disagree with you when it comes to clock management. It is vital to have someone call the right plays in the right situation. Not only that, but you have to be prepared for situations when they arise. While there are times you can point out that the right play was called at the right time, you could point to more examples contrary.

Come out flat? All the time. The Cards came out flat to start the SuperBowl before swinging the momentum positively before the first half and giving it back to Pittsburgh with the Harrison INT. I'd say about half of the playoff games we have come out flat with the Green Bay and New Orleans in 09 (technically they weren't flat to start, but definitely was after that Hightower TD) and Carolina in 08 being notable exceptions. Coming out flat can be either side of the ball.

I don't doubt that the re-signings of Fitz and Dockett were due in part to Whisenhunt. On the flip side, Boldin was publicly critical of Whisenhunt and could have been a reason not to re-sign. Dansby/Rolle to an extent too. Although evidence of those two is much weaker than Boldin.

His in game adjustments have been VERY poor with notable exceptions until recently. Those have been talked about a lot already in this thread. The 2nd half of the Superbowl is a notable example. His constant shotgun formations after successfully running on 1st down has been well documented here as well. 2nd and 1 or 2nd and 2 after rushing on 1st down, only to pass the ball for two successive plays is silly and just one example. If it happened rarely, it could be an anomaly.... happened way to many times for that.

Way too long of a post for me.

I would love for people to start coming up w/ specific examples of these items, because up to this point, they come across as buzzwords and very vague. Personally I think people get confused with the difference between coming out flat and playing conservatively. Same goes for 2nd half adjustments where people fail to recognize failed opportunities in the first half doesn't mean that the game plan needs to be changed.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

In Wiz I trust. Been on the bandwagon since Day 1, and while there have been rocky moments they shouldnt have been entirely unexpected, and I believe his way works. The hiring of Horton took time, but that was probably the biggest knock against him (DC moves) and he seems to have that handled pretty damn well at this point.

Bottom line is the players love him. Are the detractors aware of the comments Adub, Dockett, Campbell, and Fitz make about the guy? Dockett went as far as to say he would go to whatever team Wiz was coaching. I have read 3-4 comments just in the last 304 weeks abotu how Wiz treats the players and they all respect him. I have never heard a Cardinals coach so unanimoulsy backed. Like Gannon said he is Top 10, maybe Top 5.

Wiz aint the problem. The guy upstairs is.

And I dont mean God. I mean Rod Graves.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I would love for people to start coming up w/ specific examples of these items, because up to this point, they come across as buzzwords and very vague. Personally I think people get confused with the difference between coming out flat and playing conservatively. Same goes for 2nd half adjustments where people fail to recognize failed opportunities in the first half doesn't mean that the game plan needs to be changed.

Specific examples of this team coming out flat and unprepared? Sure. Minnesota this year. The numerous times this year that the offense has been absolutely horrible in the first half of the game. That's been well-chronicled, even on the team website. Horrible defensive lapses the first 6 weeks of the season.

Last year... do you really need examples of a 5-11 team coming out flat? Ok, Atlanta, San Diego, New Orleans, St Louis, SF both times.....

Coming out flat IMO is the combination of failing to execute and being unprepared.

 

[Chopper0080]

Specific examples of this team coming out flat and unprepared? Sure. Minnesota this year. The numerous times this year that the offense has been absolutely horrible in the first half of the game. That's been well-chronicled, even on the team website. Horrible defensive lapses the first 6 weeks of the season.

Last year... do you really need examples of a 5-11 team coming out flat? Ok, Atlanta, San Diego, New Orleans, St Louis, SF both times.....

Coming out flat IMO is the combination of failing to execute and being unprepared.

Disagree that coming out flat is partially failing to execute. Coming out flat is due to not being prepared, which I haven't seen from this team. Failing to execute leads to starting slow, which, due to our offensive line and QB issues, has been a problem. Hard to get into a developed game plan when you have 9 plays in the first Q.

Minnesota was not coming out flat, that was being overmatched up front and turning the ball over. You give a team with Adrian Peterson the ball in the red zone mutliple times in the first half, you are bound to get rolled.

As far as last year, we were a bad team, not a flat team. We came out fired up, but then got steamrolled due to poor play and a lack of talent/execution.

It is very rare that you see a professional football team come out flat, because athletes have egos and the game in it's simplest form is based on emotion and determination.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Disagree that coming out flat is partially failing to execute. Coming out flat is due to not being prepared, which I haven't seen from this team. Failing to execute leads to starting slow, which, due to our offensive line and QB issues, has been a problem. Hard to get into a developed game plan when you have 9 plays in the first Q.

Minnesota was not coming out flat, that was being overmatched up front and turning the ball over. You give a team with Adrian Peterson the ball in the red zone mutliple times in the first half, you are bound to get rolled.

As far as last year, we were a bad team, not a flat team. We came out fired up, but then got steamrolled due to poor play and a lack of talent/execution.

It is very rare that you see a professional football team come out flat, because athletes have egos and the game in it's simplest form is based on emotion and determination.

Which is IMO coming out flat. Just because people want to win and practice and watch film nearly every day doesn't mean that they can't come out flat.