We can't draft AP on Saturday.

[Aikdog]

It just doesn't make fiscal sense when we already have Edge making a lion's share of dough. Amazing how excited everyone was last year when we made the big splash of signing him to a 4 year contract and now it's time to phase in his replacement. Sorry that is just not the case.

First I don't see anyway how we will run 55-60% of the time as said in interviews by Wisenhunt. That is just not possible in the current NFL. Especially when our only two Pro Bowlers on offense are involved in the passing game. Sorry I don't buy it, therefore there isn;t enough carries to support two 7 million dollar backs.

Edge will always be limited in his YPC due to his style and lack of breakaway ability. For our team though, it will work for the next two years (we overpayed him for the fourth unless he pulls a Curtis Martin). Fitz and Boldin are our big play guys, Edge does the subtle things. He is expected to get 3-4 yards on first down or half the yards to a first for second. He is expected to pick up the blitz in passing downs or release for a smart route.

Edge will improve his YPC next year and likely his yards per game given second year improvement in Leinart and any improvement in run blocking (which will require the draft of Thomas or Brown). Put Edge at 4 yards per carry and our offense takes an entirely new dimension.

I like Peterson as a back. He can do a lot for many teams but he just doesn't fit into our plans. Even given the long runs he would gain over Edge, he would have to be seen as only a little better in the run game and
inferior in the passing game (both as a blocker or receiver). Overall he would be marginally better in a best case scenario. This isn't factoring in his durability concerns.

Given these reasons, we shouldn't even consider drafting this guy. There are other backs this year that could be picked in the third to fifth rounds that would fit in nicely as a change of pace back to limit Edge being over-worked. Not to mention that the backs coming out next year will be very strong. It would make much more sense to draft a replacement for Edge in the third year of his contract than his second.

In order to become better next year we need more than marginal improvement at positions through the draft. This would come with the following players (Calvin Johnson will be gone):

Joe Thomas
Levi Brown
Patrick Willis
Laron Landry

That's it. Although we need depth at almost every position, there is not one other player that would be plugged in other that would be considered significantly better than what we have now in the next two years.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I like Edge but,in reality, he doesn't fit Whiz's system very well. Edge isn't a power back.He's a slider,picker type runner who waits to find a hole. He has never played behind a FB in the NFL, and he now lacks the big play ability. I remember a few times last year where he missed key blocks on blitzes by seemingly going the wrong direction and got the QB killed.Plus, he's getting up there in age. You don't get too many chances at a talent like AP. I really like the idea of taking AP and trading Edge for a 1st(no way), 2nd or even 3rd rounder.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

So we pass on Peterson because of the money invested in Edge, but we should consider selecting Laron Landry when we have Wilson on a long term contract, signed Francisco to an extension and signed Holt in free agency.

I have no problem with selecting Peterson if he's BPA available at #5, and will leave it to the coaches to find effective use for him.

YOU NEVER HAVE TOO MANY PLAYMAKERS!

P.S. if Edge averages 4.0 or better per carry at end of year, I couldn't care less that he can't bust a 60 yard run.

I'll expect that out of Peterson.

 

[CtCardinals78]

It just doesn't make fiscal sense when we already have Edge making a lion's share of dough. Amazing how excited everyone was last year when we made the big splash of signing him to a 4 year contract and now it's time to phase in his replacement. Sorry that is just not the case.

First I don't see anyway how we will run 55-60% of the time as said in interviews by Wisenhunt. That is just not possible in the current NFL. Especially when our only two Pro Bowlers on offense are involved in the passing game. Sorry I don't buy it, therefore there isn;t enough carries to support two 7 million dollar backs.

Edge will always be limited in his YPC due to his style and lack of breakaway ability. For our team though, it will work for the next two years (we overpayed him for the fourth unless he pulls a Curtis Martin). Fitz and Boldin are our big play guys, Edge does the subtle things. He is expected to get 3-4 yards on first down or half the yards to a first for second. He is expected to pick up the blitz in passing downs or release for a smart route.

Edge will improve his YPC next year and likely his yards per game given second year improvement in Leinart and any improvement in run blocking (which will require the draft of Thomas or Brown). Put Edge at 4 yards per carry and our offense takes an entirely new dimension.

I like Peterson as a back. He can do a lot for many teams but he just doesn't fit into our plans. Even given the long runs he would gain over Edge, he would have to be seen as only a little better in the run game and
inferior in the passing game (both as a blocker or receiver). Overall he would be marginally better in a best case scenario. This isn't factoring in his durability concerns.

Given these reasons, we shouldn't even consider drafting this guy. There are other backs this year that could be picked in the third to fifth rounds that would fit in nicely as a change of pace back to limit Edge being over-worked. Not to mention that the backs coming out next year will be very strong. It would make much more sense to draft a replacement for Edge in the third year of his contract than his second.

In order to become better next year we need more than marginal improvement at positions through the draft. This would come with the following players (Calvin Johnson will be gone):

Joe Thomas
Levi Brown
Patrick Willis
Laron Landry

That's it. Although we need depth at almost every position, there is not one other player that would be plugged in other that would be considered significantly better than what we have now in the next two years.

Aikdog first off welcome to the board!

I hear what you're saying but I think it's possible. Here's why. Edge's contract was extremely front loaded. Most of his contract I believe was paid last year, so it would be less of a hit for AP this year as compared to last year.

Most successful NFL teams are two RB teams. Edge is not the same runner he was three years ago and won't be the same runner he is today three years from now. I love Edge but the thought of him paired up with AP makes me drool. Just look at what Bush McCalister did.

Pittsburgh did run the ball like 580 times last year. Now I agree we may not run it that much but there is a solid chance we run the ball at least 450 times this year. Edge can't do it all and as much as I like Shipp I don't think he can carry the load the other 150-200 carrys. I certainly don't trust J.J. to do it. He's a bigger disappointment than Rolle.

BTW nice write up!

 

[CtCardinals78]

So we pass on Peterson because of the money invested in Edge, but we should consider selecting Laron Landry when we have Wilson on a long term contract, signed Francisco to an extension and signed Holt in free agency.

I have no problem with selecting Peterson if he's BPA available at #5, and will leave it to the coaches to find effective use for him.

YOU NEVER HAVE TOO MANY PLAYMAKERS!

Yes. Landry is awesome. Francisco is good but can he handle the starting role for all season? Holt is an average/good safety. Landry can play either safety position and would immediatly make our secondary better. Imagine Wilson and Landry as the starters? Potential Pro bowl duo safeties for years to come. He's still on the top of my wishlist followed by AP.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Yes. Landry is awesome. Francisco is good but can he handle the starting role for all season? Holt is an average/good safety. Landry can play either safety position and would immediatly make our secondary better. Imagine Wilson and Landry as the starters? Potential Pro bowl duo safeties for years to come. He's still on the top of my wishlist followed by AP.

I have no real problem with Landry, although I think it unlikely he'll be our selection. My point is merely that the issue of how much money you invest in any one position is somewhat irrelevent. If you can pick up a real quality player through the draft... you pick him, you pay him... and you adjust the payroll somewhere else.

 

[CtCardinals78]

I have no real problem with Landry, although I think it unlikely he'll be our selection. My point is merely that the issue of how much money you invest in any one position is somewhat irrelevent. If you can pick up a real quality player through the draft... you pick him, you pay him... and you adjust the payroll somewhere else.

Completely agree. Wish he would be our pick.

 

[arthurracoon]

AP wont be able to do anything if we dont have a good offensive line

 

[Redsz]

I like Edge but,in reality, he doesn't fit Whiz's system very well. Edge isn't a power back.He's a slider,picker type runner who waits to find a hole.

It seems to me that Edge adapts his running style based on the team he plays for. Edge became a 'slider' because he was merley finding the hole in the zone blocking. At the end of the year when we dumped the zone blocking, he hit the hole much faster to fit with the in-line blocking we used.

He has never played behind a FB in the NFL,

He ran behind one in college, and there is no reason he can't be successful in the NFL doing so.

and he now lacks the big play ability.

He hasn't had that ability for a few years now. Ever since the knee injury he has been a 'grinder'.

I remember a few times last year where he missed key blocks on blitzes by seemingly going the wrong direction and got the QB killed.

I would put that down to learning a new scheme.

Plus, he's getting up there in age.

The guy is like 28-29! Geez, someone call the retirment home a resident has escaped!

 

[Cheesebeef]

if the Chiefs could take Larry Johnson while they had an MVP at RB with Priest Holmes, we can take a guy who's rated MUCH higher than Johnson was considering our RB in the bank is rated much lower than Priest.

 

[blindseyed]

if the Chiefs could take Larry Johnson while they had an MVP at RB with Priest Holmes, we can take a guy who's rated MUCH higher than Johnson was considering our RB in the bank is rated much lower than Priest.

I hate agreeing with you cheese.

 

[Aikdog]

if the Chiefs could take Larry Johnson while they had an MVP at RB with Priest Holmes, we can take a guy who's rated MUCH higher than Johnson was considering our RB in the bank is rated much lower than Priest.

Johnson wasn't chosen with the fifth pick however and Holmes wasn't taking up the cap space % that Edge was. My whole point is that if the player we draft is successful, we will have less of a positive return with Peterson than with our other main choices. By giving more carries to Peterson and taking away throws to Boldin and Fitz as well as decreasing the financial returns from the investment in Edge, we would be doing the offense a injustice. Clearly a non-bust Thomas or Brown at left tackle will do more for our overall team plan then having the best second back in the league.

In today's game, you can't be good at every position and you sure as heck can't overpay at one and expect to have continued success unless it is at QB.

 

[joeshmo]

Johnson wasn't chosen with the fifth pick however and Holmes wasn't taking up the cap space % that Edge was.

By giving more carries to Peterson and taking away throws to Boldin and Fitz as well as decreasing the financial returns from the investment in Edge.

1. Thats because LJ isnt nearly the prospect that Peterson is.

2. The same year LJ was drafted in 2003 is the same offseason they gave Holmes a 4 year extension with a 10 mill signing bonus and 5 Mill per year.

3. Since our base set will no longer be 3 wide sets BJ and Fitz will get more balls thrown their way or at the least similar amounts after handing the ball off more times. If we run the ball over 500 times Boldin and Fitz will get plenty of balls thrown their way and may have fewer catches but will have more TD's with more of a running threat.

 

[PJ1]

I have no real problem with Landry, although I think it unlikely he'll be our selection. My point is merely that the issue of how much money you invest in any one position is somewhat irrelevent. If you can pick up a real quality player through the draft... you pick him, you pay him... and you adjust the payroll somewhere else.

Comparing what we have invested in Francisco to what we pay Edge doesn't make your point. Edge is one of the highest paid backs in the league. In my opinion it does matter where you have your money invested by position. Unless the Cards just don't believe Edge is the answer. It will be tough to move him though.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Comparing what we have invested in Francisco to what we pay Edge doesn't make your point. Edge is one of the highest paid backs in the league. In my opinion it does matter where you have your money invested by position. Unless the Cards just don't believe Edge is the answer. It will be tough to move him though.

why would we have to move him? After this year, you can just cut him and be done with it. Isn't most of his money loaded into the first two years of his deal specifically for that reason?

joe - as usual, you're right on the money.

 

[PJ1]

why would we have to move him? After this year, you can just cut him and be done with it. Isn't most of his money loaded into the first two years of his deal specifically for that reason?

joe - as usual, you're right on the money.

What is the hit if you cut him ?

 

[WildBB]

Johnson wasn't chosen with the fifth pick however and Holmes wasn't taking up the cap space % that Edge was. My whole point is that if the player we draft is successful, we will have less of a positive return with Peterson than with our other main choices. By giving more carries to Peterson and taking away throws to Boldin and Fitz as well as decreasing the financial returns from the investment in Edge, we would be doing the offense a injustice. Clearly a non-bust Thomas or Brown at left tackle will do more for our overall team plan then having the best second back in the league.

In today's game, you can't be good at every position and you sure as heck can't overpay at one and expect to have continued success unless it is at QB.

We'll see Saturday.

 

[Cheesebeef]

to be honest, if Thomas or Peterson are there, I can't fault the Cards for taking either one. But to say you CAN'T take Peterson because of Edge or because he'll alter the offense too much (an offense that hasn't been impressive the last two years even with all the gaudy numbers from Boldin and Fitz) just doesn't jive with me.

however, if they pass on both of those guys, well, then, this team will prove that they continue to have no clue what they're doing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What is the hit if you cut him ?

after this year? Joe?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

to be honest, if Thomas or Peterson are there, I can't fault the Cards for taking either one. But to say you CAN'T take Peterson because of Edge or because he'll alter the offense too much (an offense that hasn't been impressive the last two years even with all the gaudy numbers from Boldin and Fitz) just doesn't jive with me.

however, if they pass on both of those guys, well, then, this team will prove that they continue to have no clue what they're doing.

Exactly, the draft has proven over and over again you take the best player, regardless of position. You can always build around stars, and in this draft Thomas and Peterson seem almost as sure a thing as Calvin Johnson. These three really have the combination of performance and measurables that teams look for. If either is not available, trade down.

 

[BigRedRage]

Edge is a great back, he did more than anyone else could behind our garbage patchwork line and if the line performs under grimm this year and terrelle smith is as lights out at FB as I hope he is edge will actually have a chance to break away. When 75% of the time you have to make a guy miss before you even hit the line of scrimmage its hard to "break away" with anything at all, you still have a whole backfield to deal with.

I agree on not taking peterson but if Joe thomas is not at #5 or even if he is trading down a few picks to get levi and filling more competition would be a better idea IMO. Leron landry is high in my book but hes not really a need along with the Faneca deal, duece and brown are pretty solid there. id rather pay theyr salaries and let them keep improving than to pick that guy up for 2 years.

But what do I know?

 

[BigRedArk]

If Peterson is there you take him! That's it.

 

[Feeble Mcjackson]

first off, it is AD as in "All Day" not AP. he is a football god and plays through anything, never complains, and only wants to win. It has been proven that dual back threats have had much sucess recently.

Plus, i dont really want to draft a guy like Thomas who cares so little about the draft that he is going fishing instead. I cant even wrap my head around that, shows his priorities.

 

[ActingWild]

My biggest fear is I think Graves believes the way to bulid a winner is by trading down and getting more picks. Ala, passing on Suggs to get McDougle later.

The problem is that you can't predict what other teams will do below you so it's much riskier than sitting tight. Which is why we got stuck with BJ and Pace.

If Peterson or Thomas are there and we pass on either of them to trade down I will most likely be banned for the string of $*@%! posts I'll be mashing out afterwards.

Anyway, I've said a few times why Peterson would be the smart choice if Thomas is taken, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Totally_Red]

to be honest, if Thomas or Peterson are there, I can't fault the Cards for taking either one. But to say you CAN'T take Peterson because of Edge or because he'll alter the offense too much (an offense that hasn't been impressive the last two years even with all the gaudy numbers from Boldin and Fitz) just doesn't jive with me.

however, if they pass on both of those guys, well, then, this team will prove that they continue to have no clue what they're doing.[/quote]

My sentiments exactly. Like it or not this is an offense-driven team at the moment (probably one of the reasons Whis opted to come here IMO), and the O-line is still a work in progress. Joe Thomas is not an elite offensive tackle. If he were, the top four teams wouldn't pass on him. But he is very,very good and better than anybody the Cardinals have had at the position in recent memory. He is far and away the best choice if he's there. He has the work ethic and intelligence to be THE long-term answer at a position that has plagued the Cardinals forever.

AD is in the same category. Very, very good but not elite. Edge is nearing the end of his career and doesn't have the breakaway speed that AD does. If JT is gone, and he's still on the board, he's the obvious choice.

If both are gone, then you go defense with the best defensive player on the board in Laron Landry. Landry is much more versatile than Adrian Wilson, and has the outstanding speed to play man-up vs the opposition's #3 WR. He'll probably be a pro-bowler at some point in his career.

The other option if both JT and AD are gone is trading down, and drafting Levi Brown. IMO, a trade down will be difficult because the Redskins may be a better trade-up option for teams looking for Brady Quinn.