We draft 13th

[Chopper0080]

What? No QB,s in your Top 13? Makes the case that there are really 2 different types of Boards: (1) How much you like each player and (2 Who you think will be drafted highest.

Asuming that 2 QB's will be drafted in the top 10, this could push Foster down to #9" in your ranking and Jamal Adams off your Top 13 Board altogether. And speaking of Adams, some might rank Hooker (who also isn't on your top 13) ahead of Adams.

Differences of opinion are what make the draft fun, no?

I generate those names based on need, scheme fit, and overall talent. These aren't the generic top 13 players in the draft, but they are my top 13 for the Cardinals.

Example is that I know Dalvin Cook and Leonard Fournette are better overall players, but based on need and scheme fit, they aren't as good for the Cardinals. We don't run the ball enough to find value in two top end RBs.

Re: Hooker. He was a red shirt soph so I wasn't certain that he would declare which is why he isn't on the list, but he is in the mix as he is now declared. I would bump one of the CBs down for him.

My guess is that we will see at least 1 RB, QB, and OT taken in the top 13 so, we should have our choice of three or four players from that list.

 

[Chopper0080]

Updated (and now in order)

1. Myles Garrett OLB
2. Jonathan Allen DE
3. Rueben Foster ILB
4. Jamal Adams S
5. Malik Hooker S
6. OJ Howard TE
7. Marlon Humphrey CB
8. Mike Williams WR
9. Quincy Wilson CB
10. Corey Davis WR
11. Sidney Jones CB
12. Derek Barnett OLB
13. Zach Cunningham ILB

...Some will mention Solomon Thomas...my question is, where does he play in a 3-4? 275lbs is pretty small for DE, and really big for OLB.

 

[Bodha]

Updated (and now in order)

1. Myles Garrett OLB
2. Jonathan Allen DE
3. Rueben Foster ILB
4. Jamal Adams S
5. Malik Hooker S
6. OJ Howard TE
7. Marlon Humphrey CB
8. Mike Williams WR
9. Quincy Wilson CB
10. Corey Davis WR
11. Sidney Jones CB
12. Derek Barnett OLB
13. Zach Cunningham ILB

...Some will mention Solomon Thomas...my question is, where does he play in a 3-4? 275lbs is pretty small for DE, and really big for OLB.

The pick is always a balance of BPA and need, as demonstrated by the fact you excluded Fournette and Cook. So why is it you dont do the same with TE? Would it be nice to draft Fournette? Of course. But we dont need him. Would it be nice to draft OJ Howard? Of course. But we dont need him. This is a good list, but TE stands out as a luxury. Id remove Howard altogether. Theres plenty of good TEs later. If you want the value pick, Jake Butt could be grabbed in the mid rounds since hes just got injured in the bowl game. But hes the #2 TE in the nation.

IMO the best CB is Quincy Wilson, followed by Gareon Conley.

Humphry is problematic. Hes very similar to Brandon Williams in that hes more elite athlete than technical corner right now. I do think Humphry has the highest ceiling, but given we already took a ceiling guy (Nkemdiche) last year, itd be safer to shoot for the safe guy (Wilson)

 

[juza76]

Updated (and now in order)

1. Myles Garrett OLB
2. Jonathan Allen DE
3. Rueben Foster ILB
4. Jamal Adams S
5. Malik Hooker S
6. OJ Howard TE
7. Marlon Humphrey CB
8. Mike Williams WR
9. Quincy Wilson CB
10. Corey Davis WR
11. Sidney Jones CB
12. Derek Barnett OLB
13. Zach Cunningham ILB

...Some will mention Solomon Thomas...my question is, where does he play in a 3-4? 275lbs is pretty small for DE, and really big for OLB.

I saw several times jones golden okafor playing thecsame time
Okafor blitzing in the middle
Having 3 great pass rushers is an advantage always

 

[WisconsinCard]

The reason why I think the answer is yes is that the Cardinals want 3 down ILBers and it is pretty hard to find a 245 pound thumper who is also good in coverage. The object of the 34 is to have the front 3 occupy and bottle up the offensive line so that the LBers are free to make plays on the ball. Thus what the cardinals want at ILB are good, fast athletes who are quick to the ball, sure tacklers and sticky in pass coverage.

Agreed 100% and that is exactly why I said when Buc was drafted he'll be a LB and he will never move to safety. It's the new wave of the 3-4 D.

 

[Chopper0080]

The pick is always a balance of BPA and need, as demonstrated by the fact you excluded Fournette and Cook. So why is it you dont do the same with TE? Would it be nice to draft Fournette? Of course. But we dont need him. Would it be nice to draft OJ Howard? Of course. But we dont need him. This is a good list, but TE stands out as a luxury. Id remove Howard altogether. Theres plenty of good TEs later. If you want the value pick, Jake Butt could be grabbed in the mid rounds since hes just got injured in the bowl game. But hes the #2 TE in the nation.

IMO the best CB is Quincy Wilson, followed by Gareon Conley.

Humphry is problematic. Hes very similar to Brandon Williams in that hes more elite athlete than technical corner right now. I do think Humphry has the highest ceiling, but given we already took a ceiling guy (Nkemdiche) last year, itd be safer to shoot for the safe guy (Wilson)

This is where we will disagree. IMO, TE is a huge need, and would be the missing piece to our offense. It would open up the vertical passing game. It would help improve our situational football, specifically in the red zone and on 3rd down. It would open up our play action passing game and provide some easier passing options for Palmer. It would also dictate heavier defensive personnel which would benefit DJ. Gresham has done this a little bit, but OJ would be a true difference maker in my opinion. I agree that we can get bye with limited TEs but I dont think that is best for the team long term.

 

[Chopper0080]

I saw several times jones golden okafor playing thecsame time
Okafor blitzing in the middle
Having 3 great pass rushers is an advantage always

Is this statement referencing Solomon Thomas?

 

[cardncubfan]

Is this statement referencing Solomon Thomas?

That's what I was trying to figure out. He may be referencing the OLB's you had listed. Btw, I think you are spot on about the TE.

 

[WildBB]

Updated (and now in order)

1. Myles Garrett OLB
2. Jonathan Allen DE
3. Rueben Foster ILB
4. Jamal Adams S
5. Malik Hooker S
6. OJ Howard TE
7. Marlon Humphrey CB
8. Mike Williams WR
9. Quincy Wilson CB
10. Corey Davis WR
11. Sidney Jones CB
12. Derek Barnett OLB
13. Zach Cunningham ILB

...Some will mention Solomon Thomas...my question is, where does he play in a 3-4? 275lbs is pretty small for DE, and really big for OLB.

Very nice. Corey Davis was very impressive in that Wisconsin bowl matchup game.

 

[Jetstream Green]

The pick is always a balance of BPA and need, as demonstrated by the fact you excluded Fournette and Cook. So why is it you dont do the same with TE? Would it be nice to draft Fournette? Of course. But we dont need him. Would it be nice to draft OJ Howard? Of course. But we dont need him. This is a good list, but TE stands out as a luxury. Id remove Howard altogether. Theres plenty of good TEs later. If you want the value pick, Jake Butt could be grabbed in the mid rounds since hes just got injured in the bowl game. But hes the #2 TE in the nation.

IMO the best CB is Quincy Wilson, followed by Gareon Conley.

Humphry is problematic. Hes very similar to Brandon Williams in that hes more elite athlete than technical corner right now. I do think Humphry has the highest ceiling, but given we already took a ceiling guy (Nkemdiche) last year, itd be safer to shoot for the safe guy (Wilson)

I agree with you on this one. Since Arians has arrived, we do not use the TE to it's full use and I do not think that is because we do not have the TEs. Gresham I would call a good TE and beyond average and Fells plays well when actually having the ball thrown to him and both still get open. There are four positions which for me would factor in for what the Cardinals need in the first and that is ILB, pass rusher or corner because you can never have enough, and that damn QB of the future which might not be there this draft even if we had the number one. There are some great safeties out there but I was floored by what I saw Harlan Miller do in just two games so quickly to fill our free safety position... WR, with the rules now I think you can get one in the second round or go guard but TE not

 

[slanidrac16]

Can you imagine what another shut down CB would do for this defense? We NEED to go CB.

 

[WildBB]

Can you imagine what another shut down CB would do for this defense? We NEED to go CB.

The one we have although one of the best cover corners still has some issues every so often. One of the most overused football terms. We just need more competition there, imo. A very good cover/ball hawking safety would go a long way for the 3rd down issues this D had this season if available. I like Jefferson, Mathieu and Swearinger but they are all limited as FS in coverages. Better as SS's. Badger as slot cover CB.

 

[Bodha]

This is where we will disagree. IMO, TE is a huge need, and would be the missing piece to our offense. It would open up the vertical passing game. It would help improve our situational football, specifically in the red zone and on 3rd down. It would open up our play action passing game and provide some easier passing options for Palmer. It would also dictate heavier defensive personnel which would benefit DJ. Gresham has done this a little bit, but OJ would be a true difference maker in my opinion. I agree that we can get bye with limited TEs but I dont think that is best for the team long term.

Thats fine. But say CB and TE are equal needs. CB is the higher value position. To take a TE over a CB is to take a C over a LT.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Very nice. Corey Davis was very impressive in that Wisconsin bowl matchup game.

I don't think he was all that impressive but much of that had to do with Wisky putting a safety over on his side of the field most of the day. The late TD on the throw it up for grabs pass, and I mean throw it UP for grabs, made his day look better. I did notice during the program they said Davis, going into that game, had 0 TD's and 0 100yd games facing Big 10 opponents. That may be a red flag against better competition. But also it's easier for Big 10 schools to concentrate on shutting him down as he's their #1 option.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Thats fine. But say CB and TE are equal needs. CB is the higher value position. To take a TE over a CB is to take a C over a LT.

Not if the available TE is much more talented than the available corner.

 

[juza76]

Is this statement referencing Solomon Thomas?

Yes Salomon thomas
I think is versatile, he can play 3 and 4 tecnique

 

[Bodha]

Not if the available TE is much more talented than the available corner.

It has to be a very significant gap. Because based on the value of the position, even a slightly less talented CB is still more valuable than a slightly more talented TE.

looking specifically at OJ Howard vs the best CB in the draft (and that comes down to opinion, I feel its Quincy Wilson) OJ Howard isnt significantly better. IMO, talent for talent, Wilson is better than Howard. Even if its small or equal, then the positional value wins out.

Howard is a phenomenal blocker. And if we are drafting a TE to block for DJ, I understand the reasoning, but you draft blocking TEs in the mid rounds, not the 1st.

If you want a TE to be a receiver, then there are better receiving TEs in this draft over Howard. Adam Breneman had more yards and more TDs. Hes a solid blocker. The one I most want to talk about is David Njoku from Maimi. More yards, more TDs than Howard, but hes also a Vernon Davis type hyper athletic TE. If you want to open up the field with a weapon at TE, then Njoku is your guy. And he can be had in the 2nd.


If the guy was Gronk, and BA was in fact committed to using him as Gronk, then of course im on board. but we're picking #13. Thats practically lotto. If we were picking late 1st, I could understand it. But a TE in lottos needs to be Gronk. And Howard isnt.

 

[Finito]

Gronk wasn't even Gronk coming out he was a second round pick.

Howard scares me I never like guys who are supposed to have all world talent but for whatever reason the production numbers don't match

 

[Bodha]

Gronk wasn't even Gronk coming out he was a second round pick.

And thats why he was a 2nd round pick. Because he wasnt "Gronk" yet. If he were, then hed be a top 10 pick.

I feel the same way about Howard. Howard isnt "Gronk" and therefore should also be a late 1st/2nd round pick.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

And thats why he was a 2nd round pick. Because he wasnt "Gronk" yet. If he were, then hed be a top 10 pick.

I feel the same way about Howard. Howard isnt "Gronk" and therefore should also be a late 1st/2nd round pick.

Gronk had serious back concerns too and that's the main reason he dropped.

 

[Stout]

Actually, the only reason Gronk was a 2nd-round pick was back issues.

 

[Stout]

Damn it, Cbus...jinx

 

[football karma]

Actually, the only reason Gronk was a 2nd-round pick was back issues.

coming off of back surgery where he didnt play a down his junior season

said differently: thats how good he was --- viewed as a late 1, early 2 draft pick after missing a year due to back surgery

 

[Chopper0080]

It has to be a very significant gap. Because based on the value of the position, even a slightly less talented CB is still more valuable than a slightly more talented TE.

looking specifically at OJ Howard vs the best CB in the draft (and that comes down to opinion, I feel its Quincy Wilson) OJ Howard isnt significantly better. IMO, talent for talent, Wilson is better than Howard. Even if its small or equal, then the positional value wins out.

Howard is a phenomenal blocker. And if we are drafting a TE to block for DJ, I understand the reasoning, but you draft blocking TEs in the mid rounds, not the 1st.

If you want a TE to be a receiver, then there are better receiving TEs in this draft over Howard. Adam Breneman had more yards and more TDs. Hes a solid blocker. The one I most want to talk about is David Njoku from Maimi. More yards, more TDs than Howard, but hes also a Vernon Davis type hyper athletic TE. If you want to open up the field with a weapon at TE, then Njoku is your guy. And he can be had in the 2nd.


If the guy was Gronk, and BA was in fact committed to using him as Gronk, then of course im on board. but we're picking #13. Thats practically lotto. If we were picking late 1st, I could understand it. But a TE in lottos needs to be Gronk. And Howard isnt.

I think Howard is valuable because he can do everything similar to Gronk. I'm saying that he will be that type of player, but he has that type of versatility. Also, in a draft class so deep at CB, I would argue that the gap between Howard and the next best TE is bigger than the gap between the best CB and the 3rd or 4th best CB.

If you are of the mind that the offense was the 2nd biggest issue in 2016 after special teams, and your priority tis to improve the offense, I don't see many players better suited to do so more than OJ Howard.

 

[football karma]

i think the 2013 draft is instructive

the Cards desperately needed o-line help. The took an offensive lineman -- Jonathan Cooper, G

if you look at how that first round turned out---

it would have been pretty good if the Cards had taken, for example, Tyler Eifert, TE (who went at 21) or DeAndre Hopkins, WR ( taken at 27 and truly not a need then)