We traded Marion for....

[dreamcastrocks]

How to turn a franchise 1 step away from a Finals into a franchise 1 step away from the lottery...

not completely accurate, as we were in the lottery last year....

I don't think that we would have won it all of Colangelo were in charge either for the record.

 

[Covert Rain]

not completely accurate, as we were in the lottery last year....

I don't think that we would have won it all of Colangelo were in charge either for the record.

Mmmmm. I probably agree but JC would not have let Joe Johnson go either. I think we would be in better shape today and maybe a more concrete plan for the future.

 

[devilalum]

Trading Marion for Shaq was a gamble that was intended to improve the team. It didn't save Sarver any money. I don't have a problem with them taking a calculated risk to improve the team.

If you want to play "what if" or trash the front office you should revisit KT and TWO #1s for NOTHING!!!

 

[shazaam6]

Trading Marion for Shaq was a gamble that was intended to improve the team. It didn't save Sarver any money. I don't have a problem with them taking a calculated risk to improve the team. Me either

If you want to play "what if" or trash the front office you should revisit KT and TWO #1s for NOTHING!!! I agree but there is a pattern here.


It is not that we traded for Shaq. It is how Sarver sheds salary, and gets squat back. He buys retail and then sells wholesale, -no he pays to sell. I wish I could go work for Sarver, maybe he would pay me 3/4 of my salary not to work and tell everyone how much money he saved by getting me to agree to get paid not to work. Idiots will soon be separated from their money.

 

[Chaplin]

It is not that we traded for Shaq. It is how Sarver sheds salary, and gets squat back. He buys retail and then sells wholesale, -no he pays to sell. I wish I could go work for Sarver, maybe he would pay me 3/4 of my salary not to work and tell everyone how much money he saved by getting me to agree to get paid not to work. Idiots will soon be separated from their money.

How does the original Shaq trade reflect anything you just wrote? People keep bringing it up for some reason like it's some reasoning for Sarver being cheap. There are so many other reasons, why use one that isn't a reason at all?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

This franchise's nucleus was going nowhere before and after the Marion trade.

 

[shazaam6]

Chap do you mean Marion/Banks for Shaq?..... It doesn't. It was a decent trade and Shaq did better than I expected. But to trade an allstar plus 10 million cash for nothing is ridiculous. Only if I was on a ship that was sinking would I throw assets out the way Sarver does. Maybe that is what is happening.

 

[Covert Rain]

This franchise's nucleus was going nowhere before and after the Marion trade.

How true that is. That is why I don't mind the Shaq trade one bit. Having said that, I don't think Shaq gets traded for what we got in return if JC is still Captain of the ship. I just feel like we could have gotten more somewhere or somehow. Then again maybe I am jaded by the lack of respoect the Sarver/Kerr combo seem to be getting around the league.

 

[elindholm]

But to trade an allstar plus 10 million cash for nothing is ridiculous.

Not quite as ridiculous as the bogus math you're using to describe the trade.

 

[Yuma]

I'm still wondering what we have left after the Larry Nance deal.

West and Johnson retired with the Suns, no compenstation. We turned Thunder Dan into Hot Rod Williams.... I have no idea how Tyrone Corbin got to the Jazz.

Isn't Sarver essentially paying ten million for nobody? We got screwed in that deal.

Don't make me break down the Barkley deal

You beat me to it! LMAO!

 

[Yuma]

And Q is being moved around like a hot potato.

3 teams in 3 weeks! How can trades with a player be done that fast? Time for Larry Coon's FAQ!

 

[Yuma]

How does the original Shaq trade reflect anything you just wrote? People keep bringing it up for some reason like it's some reasoning for Sarver being cheap. There are so many other reasons, why use one that isn't a reason at all?

I agree. I don't think Sarver has been cheap at all. It's his use of the money he's spent that I am not happy about. Like paying for a guy like Banks that CLEARLY wasn't close to being able to play for us.

 

[shazaam6]

Not quite as ridiculous as the bogus math you're using to describe the trade.

Bogus math?

Ok put a positive spin on it for me so I understand how you think because I've explained how I see it.

Bottom line is no all star center and nothing to show for it except minus 10 million this year.

 

[binkar]

Bogus math?

Ok put a positive spin on it for me so I understand how you think because I've explained how I see it.

Bottom line is no all star center and nothing to show for it except minus 10 million this year.

Please go back and read my post in the last page. You can't measure everything that comes of a deal multiple years down the road.

Also, read RyanWB's hilarious way of proving this exact point.

 

[elindholm]

Bottom line is no all star center and nothing to show for it except minus 10 million this year.

Wait, you're serious?

Okay, well basically you're counting the same debit twice. Once the Suns made the trade, they were on the hook for $20 million this season, period. That was indeed a gruesome decision. But trading O'Neal for nothing did not cost them an additional $10 million. You can say that the Suns blew it by giving away O'Neal for nothing, or you can say that they blew it for taking on such a massive contract, but it's simply incorrect to say that they traded O'Neal "plus" $10 million for nothing.

 

[shazaam6]

Yes I am serious.

If I lease a rare huge widescreen TV(Shaq) for two and a half years. Then with one year to go I decide to trade leases with a friend because mine costs a lot and isn't exactly what I want anymore. His is a lesser TV and has lower payments however it doesn't really work.

Since it doesn't work well, the leasing co. agreed take the tv back if I will pay 3/4 of the payments anyway, which is half of what the big screen I had would have cost...End result is I no longer have one of the 3 best tv's in my theater and am still paying half of what it would have cost me.

My point is 10 million still buys a decent TV or Player (Odom caliber) or I could have traded for something else to be determined later(draft pick for instance) but whatever.

Also, trading Marion for 1 1/2 year rental of Shaq only proves my point. If you are ok with nothing to show for Marion, then Shaq is very valuable and we should have something to show after trading him.

On a side note:
Ryanw's example isn't even close. Trading Larry Nance for KJ(12yrs as Suns player), West(8yrs), Corbin(2yrs) and Cleveland's first round pick which became Majerle(8yrs), compared to trading Marion and Banks for Shaq and after 1 1/2 years we have nothing to show for it but a ten million payment this year so it doesn't really compare.

I have nothing further your honor. Move to judgement. I find Sarver guillty of multiple counts of bad trading. Punishment to be determined when all summer moves and Amare situation is concluded, however be advised you are on double secret probation until further notice or your next bonehead move. That is all.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You might want to use a different analogy. A TV's depreciation after a 1.5 year rental is like 60%.

 

[elindholm]

Since it doesn't work well, the leasing co. agreed take the tv back if I will pay 3/4 of the payments anyway, which is half of what the big screen I had would have cost...End result is I no longer have one of the 3 best tv's in my theater and am still paying half of what it would have cost me.

Yes, of course. But you aren't losing additional money in your new deal with the vendor. You are continuing to pay some of the money that you already agreed to pay.

My point is 10 million still buys a decent TV or Player (Odom caliber) or I could have traded for something else to be determined later(draft pick for instance) but whatever.

But no one thinks O'Neal is going to be worth $20 million this season. Even though he was very good last year, he wasn't worth $20 million then either.

Your point is that paying $10 million for nothing is worse than paying $20 million for O'Neal. That's a valid position and it can be argued either way. I'd have to think about what side I come down on.

then Shaq is very valuable and we should have something to show after trading him.

No, O'Neal is not very valuable at $20 million per year. He was a negative asset and the Suns cut their losses. I'm amazed they could move him at all.

compared to trading Marion and Banks for Shaq and after 1 1/2 years we have nothing to show for it but a ten million payment this year

It was unrealistic to expect to have anything to show for it. The Suns overpaid for a depreciating asset. They used up what they could of its remaining value and now are finishing off the payments.

Say you buy a used car on a five-year loan. Then you run it into the ground for the next four years and have to pay someone to haul it away. You still have to make your final year of payments. You got what you could out of the car, but once it had lost its value, there was nothing more to be gained by holding onto it.

By the way, had the Suns not made the Marion-O'Neal trade, and instead let Marion walk this summer, where would they be? They'd have no Marion and they'd still owe $9.2 million to Marcus Banks. So it's very close to a wash.

I find Sarver guillty of multiple counts of bad trading.

Oh definitely. I was just taking issue with your accounting.

 

[shazaam6]

Thanks for taking the time E. You raise valid points about how difficult it may have been to find someone to pay Shaq his salary but it only takes one willing trading partner and Cleveland seemed to be in a predicament. Maybe losing LeBron in the future and they were going to have to pay a lot of money to Wallace, who might not even play. So Cleveland was able turn 14mil liability into an all star for an additional 6 mil at a position of need, expiring after one year too.

We could have done better is all I'm thinking. I don't think Shaq is run into the ground, Wallace maybe, but Shaq will still be effective. We may have just created the Gasol for Kwame deal for Cleveland's benefit. It's all about saving money but this doesn't sit right. We had the working asset they wanted, they had a broken expensive asset. They upgraded to allstar center for about what they would have paid to keep Pavlovic. (They did a two for one, getting rid of junk for an All-Star Co MVP)
______________________________________________________
We are doomed for future trading. Now I laugh at Kerr's "no one was offering value for Amare" ......NOOOOOO

"Hi this is Steve Kerr, I was returning your call about your interest in Amare. First we would like a your starting ...... Are you laughing? Anyway we would also like a first round ...............What's so funny? Hey stop laughing. I'm serious."

"SSS ..S ...Sorry Steve.... I'll have ......to get back to you."

 

[Yuma]

OK, let's not overrate Shaq at his salary. Would a team trade for Shaq if his salary was $10 million. Heck yeah! But at that whopping over $20 million salary, very few teams could absorb that. So we had limited trade partners to start with. Then you factor in his age, and the fact you only get him for a year, and that limits the market more. I am ambivalent about the trade because we needed to dump salary, and we got what we could.

 

[da_suns_fan]

It makes me sick...had we just kept Marion and let his contract expire we would be in much better financial shape to make a major trade.

Instead we are paying 10+ million for NOBODY. NOBODY!!!

 

[binkar]

I can live with the argument that it would have been better just to let Marion's deal expire. However, hindsight is always 20/20. I just don't buy the argument that we got nothing for Marion.

 

[Mainstreet]

I can live with the argument that it would have been better just to let Marion's deal expire. However, hindsight is always 20/20. I just don't buy the argument that we got nothing for Marion.

As Elindholm pointed out, the Suns got rid of Banks with Marion. I just tend to forget about Banks as part of that trade for Shaq. Banks was a terrible acquisition by the Suns orchestrated by Griffin. IMO, Griffin should have minimal influence on player personnel.

 

[Chaplin]

It makes me sick...had we just kept Marion and let his contract expire we would be in much better financial shape to make a major trade.

Instead we are paying 10+ million for NOBODY. NOBODY!!!

If we let Marion's contract expire, how would we be able to make a major trade?? I assume you mean a sign-and-trade...

 

[Gaddabout]

If we let Marion's contract expire, how would we be able to make a major trade??

http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:WAL

Sell! Sell! Sell!