Wearing Rose Colored Glasses

[Mainstreet]

The suns dont just need productiivity, they need alot out of dragic as a backup PG and Lopez as a center to backup shaq and start if shaq is injured or cant play. It is very rare that rookies come in and take over those kinds of responsibilities, very rare.

You are absolutely correct. The Suns need one of their PGs to surprise (hopefully Dragic) and Lopez to play solid. I venture to say, if the backup PG position does not surprise the Suns are in trouble. Needless to say, the Suns also need Matt Barnes to perform well also.

However, IMO the Suns season rests on the performance they get from the backup PG position. It's a lot to ask from rookies.

 

[nowagimp]

You are absolutely correct. The Suns need one of their PGs to surprise (hopefully Dragic) and Lopez to play solid. I venture to say, if the backup PG position does not surprise the Suns are in trouble. Needless to say, the Suns also need Matt Barnes to perform well also.

However, IMO the Suns season rests on the performance they get from the backup PG position. It's a lot to ask from rookies.

No basketball teams season should rest on the shoulders of a rookie, its highly unlikely that the rook will deliver, and it could possibly hinder his development. The suns season is best served by developing lopez, dragic and singletary. I really dont think the suns have a realistic shot at winning the west, they are not a better team than they were 2 years ago, just older. Basketball is a most difficult sport for the underdog, as underdogs rarely win anything. The suns had their shot in the nash era, probably fell short on the suspensions, the window is just about shut. The failure of the suns to address their outside shooting woes thjis past off season shut that thin crack. Now I am just hoping for a better tomorrow, for the young guys to become something special, for shaqs salary to go away, and nash to retire in dignity.

I even think that if the suns could get value, they should trade Nash to a team that can run(and one that has a backup) so he can go out in style, in 7 seconds or less. Steve did everything that he could, and it just didnt work out. When I see the suns grinding it out this year with nash playing point, it will be sad. Thats not nashs game, and playing a more physical half court, slower style will only make him less effective, get him beat up more in the reg season. I will always remember him running the break and shooting that pull up 3pter, "the dagger", at the end of a close game. MVsteve, one of a kind, I wont forget the incredible comebacks, deadly shooting, the surreal passes. For 4 years, he was the 2nd greatest PG of all time.

 

[elindholm]

General: those of you who like flying under the radar should be pleased with the stein power rankings. The suns are way under the radar at #12.

The Suns aren't title contenders, but #12 is ridiculous. I'd put them somewhere between 6 and 8, most likely.

 

[arwillan]

The Suns aren't title contenders, but #12 is ridiculous. I'd put them somewhere between 6 and 8, most likely.

not a soul in the world can say that with any sort of confidence and reasoning at this point in the year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

not a soul in the world can say that with any sort of confidence and reasoning at this point in the year.

why not?

 

[Mainstreet]

No basketball teams season should rest on the shoulders of a rookie, its highly unlikely that the rook will deliver, and it could possibly hinder his development. The suns season is best served by developing lopez, dragic and singletary. I really dont think the suns have a realistic shot at winning the west, they are not a better team than they were 2 years ago, just older.

I'm just saying if the Suns want to compete in the West they will need to have one of their rookie PGs to come through as a legitimate backup to Nash and Lopez to play solid in the middle. I'm not saying it will happen but that's what it will take.

 

[Irish]

I'm just saying if the Suns want to compete in the West they will need to have one of their rookie PGs to come through as a legitimate backup to Nash and Lopez to play solid in the middle. I'm not saying it will happen but that's what it will take.

Counting on rookies seems pretty optimiistic, but it is not impossible. For example, here are some rookie stats:

Chris Paul - 16.1 ppg, 43.3% 28.2% for three, 7.8 apg - started 78 games with 36 minutes a game.

Deron Williams - 10.8 ppg, 42.1%, 41.6% for three, 4.5 apg (47 starts in 80 games) 28.8 minutes.

TJ Ford - 7.1 ppg, 38.4%, 23.8% for three, 6.5 apg (started 55 games) 26.8 minutes. He did this under Porter.

Tony Parker - 9.2 ppg, 41.9%, 32.3% for three, 4.3 apg (started 72 of 75 games) 29.4 minutes per game. He was a 28th pick

Obviously there are guys who don't have great rookie years. Calderon for example did not really take off until his 3rd year.

In most cases, the success of the point guard is heavily dependent on the team. One guy averaged only 3.3 ppg and 2.1 assists per game on 10.5 minutes per game. But Steve Nash was playing on a team with Jason Kidd, Sam Cassell, and Kevin Johnson; so maybe he had an excuse.

The guys with great rookie years all had was an opportunity to play. Being rookies did not stop them (Parker won the championship his second year).

 

[Cheesebeef]

Counting on rookies seems pretty optimiistic, but it is not impossible. For example, here are some rookie stats:

Chris Paul - 16.1 ppg, 43.3% 28.2% for three, 7.8 apg - started 78 games with 36 minutes a game.

Deron Williams - 10.8 ppg, 42.1%, 41.6% for three, 4.5 apg (47 starts in 80 games) 28.8 minutes.

TJ Ford - 7.1 ppg, 38.4%, 23.8% for three, 6.5 apg (started 55 games) 26.8 minutes. He did this under Porter.

Tony Parker - 9.2 ppg, 41.9%, 32.3% for three, 4.3 apg (started 72 of 75 games) 29.4 minutes per game. He was a 28th pick

Obviously there are guys who don't have great rookie years. Calderon for example did not really take off until his 3rd year.

The guys with great rookie years all had was an opportunity to play. Being rookies did not stop them (Parker won the championship his second year).

if we had rookie a rookie PG who was drafted with 2nd, 3rd pick or 5th pick I could see your point in bringing up Williams, CP or Ford, but we don't. We have a guy taken with 46th... eh, the above so has nothing to do with... forget it.

good point george.

 

[nowagimp]

if we had rookie a rookie PG who was drafted with 2nd, 3rd pick or 5th pick I could see your point in bringing up Williams, CP or Ford, but we don't. We have a guy taken with 46th... eh, the above so has nothing to do with... forget it.

good point george.

Yep those are some rose colored glasses all right.

 

[Mainstreet]

I really think where a player is drafted does not equal production although the probability is higher with first round picks. For example, I think second round pick Daniel Gibson had a solid rookie year but he really blossomed in the playoffs. I just don't think we have enough information about our rookie PGs to know if they can adequately hold down the backup PG position.

The Suns have a star PG in Nash so the backup PG does not have to carry the entire load like being asked to be a starter. He just needs to be able to hold down the fort when Nash rests and run the offense with minimal turnovers. I know asking a rookie PG to do it is asking a lot. However, the Suns FO apparently felt better about Dragic than Pargo (who I really liked), Lue or some of the other veterans that were out there.

Oh well. If one doesn't get drunk with kool-aid it should be fun to watch the rookies. As I have said before, this is one of my favorite parts of the game...watching rookies develop. I'm hoping for some production but I'm not demanding it.

 

[arwillan]

why not?

clearly because we have some new pieces, a new coach, and a whole new philosophy. Nobody knows how well it will work out. Who knows? maybe we'll surprise everyone and dominate the west. Maybe we'll fall to last place and wind up in the lottery. Maybe kobe will get hurt and need micro-fracture surgery which would allow us to essentially walk to the pacific title. Nobody can say anything at this point in the season because nothing in basketball is certain until it's set in stone.

 

[mojorizen7]

I'd put myself in the category of cautiously optimistic about our chances of making a legit run this season(Western Finals appearance is a legit run IMO). Like most of us my biggest concern is age/health. My rose colered glasses tell me that Dragic is going to be effective in the backup role this year, and that Matt Barnes is going to prove to be the steal of FA. The realist in me says that Shaq is going to miss ALOT of games and Lopez is going to struggle mightily. I envision Porter being forced to go small more than he wanted to. Hope i'm wrong about Lopez because IMO his value(in playing well) will prove to be greater than Dragic's as the season plays out.
GO SUNS!!
For the record......
I was very optimistic in '06-'07(year of the suspensions).
I was doom & gloom from the very beginning last year. After the KT trade i rolled my eyes in disgust ,and i'd had enough of D'Antoni.

 

[Cheesebeef]

clearly because we have some new pieces, a new coach, and a whole new philosophy. Nobody knows how well it will work out. Who knows? maybe we'll surprise everyone and dominate the west. Maybe we'll fall to last place and wind up in the lottery. Maybe kobe will get hurt and need micro-fracture surgery which would allow us to essentially walk to the pacific title. Nobody can say anything at this point in the season because nothing in basketball is certain until it's set in stone.

then I guess we should just shut down all opinions on everything until the season is over and then discuss what happened afterward because nobody will really be able to say anything at any point in the season until it's set in stone and the only time anything is set in stone is when someone wins the title.

 

[elindholm]

clearly because we have some new pieces, a new coach, and a whole new philosophy. Nobody knows how well it will work out.

You could say all of the same things about the Knicks. Are they title contenders too? (If your answer is Yes, then everyone must be a title contender, and the term has no meaning.)

 

[Chaplin]

You could say all of the same things about the Knicks. Are they title contenders too? (If your answer is Yes, then everyone must be a title contender, and the term has no meaning.)

That's a ridiculous analogy, because old or no, the Suns have light years more talent on their roster than the Knicks.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's a ridiculous analogy, because old or no, the Suns have light years more talent on their roster than the Knicks.

i agree the Knicks is a ridiculous analogy. What about the Mavs? Do you think they're still title contenders?

 

[Mainstreet]

i agree the Knicks is a ridiculous analogy. What about the Mavs? Do you think they're still title contenders?

IMO, this is a more realistic comparison at least concerning where the teams are in terms of trying to win a title before the window closes. However, I do think the Suns have more talent.

I think the Mavericks took a step back from being title contenders ever since they traded Devin Harris, Diop and two first rounders (plus other parts) to New Jersey. I'm still not sure what they were thinking. I would not have traded Devin Harris for Jason Kidd straight up.

I think the Suns are still in the competiton if they can get help for Nash. I believe the Suns primary problem last season was chemistry. They just did not have the enthusiasm last season and more or less went through the motions. I think part of it was Nash wearing down. He brings a lot of energy and confidence to the floor. There was more but I couldn't quite get a handle on it. I still think Nash has gas left in the tank if he gets some rest.

 

[Irish]

In theory, ANYBODY could be a contender just as few injuries can drop a team into the dregs. In the case of the top teams, the questions have two elements:

1. How Many Things HAVE To Go Right? The Knicks have an extremely long list. The Suns list of things that HAVE to go right is IMHO a lot shorter.

2. What Is The Probability These Things Will Go Right? It is one thing to assume a rookie will make the all star team (unlikely) and another to hope a guy plays at a pre-injury level if recovered.

I'm not predicting a championship, but I don't see it as beyond realistic possiblity either.

 

[suns1fan]

Nice to see something positive like this on the Suns. Great post Irish.

 

[Irish]

Nice to see something positive like this on the Suns. Great post Irish.

I started with some positives and now more people are getting in the mood. I predict some people will go overboard the other direction. People seem to go back and forth a lot on this team.