Week 1 Heroes and Goats

[kerouac9]

Spoiler: Jonathan Cooper is not a goat.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/heroes-and-goats-saintscards/

 

[jbeecham]

Another Goat:

JJ Nelson - Struggled to get away from press coverage & couldn't deal with physical defenders. He gave up on plays without even making an attempt to catch the ball & instead kept looking for flags. He should have been able to torch a weak Saints secondary, but he didn't have a single catch despite being targeted at least 4 times. He's got great speed, but he's not ready to be on the field as a wide receiver yet. He needs to add 25-30 lbs of muscle without losing any speed.

 

[Shaggy]

Another Goat:

JJ Nelson - Struggled to get away from press coverage & couldn't deal with physical defenders. He gave up on plays without even making an attempt to catch the ball & instead kept looking for flags. He should have been able to torch a weak Saints secondary, but he didn't have a single catch despite being targeted at least 4 times. He's got great speed, but he's not ready to be on the field as a wide receiver yet. He needs to add 25-30 lbs of muscle without losing any speed.

He was getting pushed around. There were at least 1 or 2 that could have been called a PI but he needs to push through those and get the leverage he needs to catch those balls. You are right, he does need to get stronger.

 

[Cardiac]

Good read as always K9. Not sure I'd put Bettcher on the Goats list but you're not wrong that things got sloppy at times.

Cards are currently dead last in pass defense (yds allowed per game). Good news is we are first in rush yards allowed and yds per carry.

 

[Shaggy]

Good read as always K9. Not sure I'd put Bettcher on the Goats list but you're not wrong that things got sloppy at times.

Cards are currently dead last in pass defense (yds allowed per game). Good news is we are first in rush yards allowed and yds per carry.

Isn't it like that ever year.

 

[Iceman]

Another Goat:

JJ Nelson - Struggled to get away from press coverage & couldn't deal with physical defenders. He gave up on plays without even making an attempt to catch the ball & instead kept looking for flags. He should have been able to torch a weak Saints secondary, but he didn't have a single catch despite being targeted at least 4 times. He's got great speed, but he's not ready to be on the field as a wide receiver yet. He needs to add 25-30 lbs of muscle without losing any speed.

That's a LOT of weight to add. Not sure he is the type that would be able to gain that. He's so skinny

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Another Goat:

JJ Nelson - Struggled to get away from press coverage & couldn't deal with physical defenders. He gave up on plays without even making an attempt to catch the ball & instead kept looking for flags. He should have been able to torch a weak Saints secondary, but he didn't have a single catch despite being targeted at least 4 times. He's got great speed, but he's not ready to be on the field as a wide receiver yet. He needs to add 25-30 lbs of muscle without losing any speed.

Dude - 25-30 lbs of muscle:

a. is ridiculous given his frame
b. not possible without drugs in one year
c. will impact his speed

I think they said about 10 lbs given his similarity to Smokey, and that won't happen in-season.

 

[kerouac9]

Another Goat:

JJ Nelson - Struggled to get away from press coverage & couldn't deal with physical defenders. He gave up on plays without even making an attempt to catch the ball & instead kept looking for flags. He should have been able to torch a weak Saints secondary, but he didn't have a single catch despite being targeted at least 4 times. He's got great speed, but he's not ready to be on the field as a wide receiver yet. He needs to add 25-30 lbs of muscle without losing any speed.

I'm not going to name a goat on a kid who's coming up to play his first NFL game from UAB. I'm not really sure what expectations were. If anything, I wish here were more polished as a punt returner.

I'm interested to see what the snap counts were for all the defensive personnel. Gunter didn't seem to do much out there, but pro-football-reference says that Josh Mauro started the game at NT. It seemed to me like we were effectively playing a 4-2-5 defense most of the game, just that one of the DEs was playing in a two-point stance. We were leaving the middle of the field open pretty consistently.

 

[GiantCardFan]

I think I remember one play near the endzone, Nelson had 2 guys on him and he wasn't even looking at the football, he just gave up on it.

 

[Iceman]

Can we add how horrible the field looked to the Goat section? I understand that the Cards have been on it for camp, etc. It looked thrown together.

 

[jbeecham]

I never said that I expected him to add 25-30 lbs of muscle during this season. He should be working towards it though. The guy is 5'10 & 156 lbs... he should be able to support 175 - 180 lbs of weight on his frame.

How many top NFL receivers weigh less than 180 lbs?

Again, it's something to build towards if he doesn't want to get shut down at the line of scrimmage on every play... even if he get's past the press coverage then he's been re-routed or the timing of the play is off.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm not going to name a goat on a kid who's coming up to play his first NFL game from UAB. I'm not really sure what expectations were. If anything, I wish here were more polished as a punt returner.

I'm interested to see what the snap counts were for all the defensive personnel. Gunter didn't seem to do much out there, but pro-football-reference says that Josh Mauro started the game at NT. It seemed to me like we were effectively playing a 4-2-5 defense most of the game, just that one of the DEs was playing in a two-point stance. We were leaving the middle of the field open pretty consistently.

Agreed not a goat, but I do think with Floyd playing more and Nelson less the passing game will get MUCH better. Nelson is physically overmatched and he also appears to not always be where Palmer thinks he's supposed to.

Early but I have to admit halfway through the game I was wishing Shipley had stayed over Nelson.

 

[jbeecham]

To answer my own question, I only found 1 receiver in the top 40 in receiving yards (in week 1) that was listed at less than 180 lbs:

Travis Benjamin is listed at 175 lbs.

 

[kerouac9]

Agreed not a goat, but I do think with Floyd playing more and Nelson less the passing game will get MUCH better. Nelson is physically overmatched and he also appears to not always be where Palmer thinks he's supposed to.

Early but I have to admit halfway through the game I was wishing Shipley had stayed over Nelson.

Nelson needs to work on his punt return game and wait until next offseason to learn the WR game in the NFL. I'd honestly rather have any of our top 3 RBs on the field than Nelson.

One other thing that I'll mention here: Carson Palmer was WILDLY lucky that the Saints defenders had hands of stone in this game. 3-4 passes were right in the breadbasket of the guys wearing black, often in situations that would've been pick-sixes.

 

[MrYeahBut]

I never said that I expected him to add 25-30 lbs of muscle during this season. He should be working towards it though. The guy is 5'10 & 156 lbs... he should be able to support 175 - 180 lbs of weight on his frame.

I'm 5'10" 180lb but mine is not muscle... it's from Dryers Rocky Road.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Good read as always K9. Not sure I'd put Bettcher on the Goats list but you're not wrong that things got sloppy at times.

Cards are currently dead last in pass defense (yds allowed per game). Good news is we are first in rush yards allowed and yds per carry.

I agree its harsh to put the rookie coordinator on this list, but he didn't have a good game, was out matched by Peyton, and since I watched the Jets game before the Caridnals game, you can see the drop off from a coaching perspective.

But, again, its the guy's first game, he will learn.

 

[TJ]

Holding Drew Brees, Sean Payton and co. under 19 points in your first game calling plays is commendable and not worthy of "Goat" status. Of course, there were five scoring drives (4 FGs and 1 TD) and over 400 yards given up. Hopefully, JB looks at the film and coaches up his OLBs to be more mindful of the slip screens as they're going up against one of the best in catching the ball in the backfield next Sunday in Forte.

 

[jbeecham]

One other thing that I'll mention here: Carson Palmer was WILDLY lucky that the Saints defenders had hands of stone in this game. 3-4 passes were right in the breadbasket of the guys wearing black, often in situations that would've been pick-sixes.

Brees had the same issue... 1 was intercepted by R. Johnson, but he should've had a 2nd one. Then there was the pass that the blitzing honey badger knocked up into the air & Kareem Martin made a very close diving attempt to intercept. Pretty much every QB has a few throws in every game that could be intercepted. Luckily it worked out for us this time.

 

[Cardiac]

Isn't it like that ever year.

Ha ha. Pretty much since BA has been our HC, Horton as DC didn't care much about stopping the run and focused on the pass.

Ironic because our DB's are very good but most of those yards this year were generated by RB's with screens and outlets.

 

[CFLredzoned]

Gunter didn't seem to do much out there, but pro-football-reference says that Josh Mauro started the game at NT. It seemed to me like we were effectively playing a 4-2-5 defense most of the game, just that one of the DEs was playing in a two-point stance. We were leaving the middle of the field open pretty consistently.

Yeah it looked like he was having a hard time shedding blocks to try and make a play. What happened to those violent hands we heard so much about? Then again, I think it always looks that way to me when I watch an interior lineman. But still, it seemed like he spent alot of time "occupied" and the runner would squirt through right next to him.

Speaking of violent hands, did you see that pass play on I think the first drive where Cameron Jordan grabbed Watford's arms and gave him a quick jerk then push. Completely shocked and immobilized Watford. Almost sacked Palmer but he dodged the bullet. Anyway I think that was a great welcome to the NFL moment for Watford. You could see it on his face. Those 5 seconds were worth more than a month of practice.

 

[Cardiac]

I agree its harsh to put the rookie coordinator on this list, but he didn't have a good game, was out matched by Peyton, and since I watched the Jets game before the Caridnals game, you can see the drop off from a coaching perspective.

But, again, its the guy's first game, he will learn.

Peyton is in the top 3 / 5 offensive minds in the game so sure Bettcher is going to lose some chess pieces during the match. Thing is he never lost his Queen and only allowed 19 points to the chess master.

Jets were up against the GAWD awful Browns so of course they had a better defensive showing. Bettcher made some rookie mistakes but he didn't crap the bed, far from it.

 

[Cardiac]

I didn't hear Gunther's name but wasn't expecting a 4th rd pick outa little junior college to blow up Max Unger and the rest of the Saints very good Oline.

Can't pick on JJ Nelson but can throw jabs at Gunther???? He was part of the squad that held the Saints to 54 yds on a 2.7 yds per rush on the ground.

 

[Russ Smith]

Nelson needs to work on his punt return game and wait until next offseason to learn the WR game in the NFL. I'd honestly rather have any of our top 3 RBs on the field than Nelson.

One other thing that I'll mention here: Carson Palmer was WILDLY lucky that the Saints defenders had hands of stone in this game. 3-4 passes were right in the breadbasket of the guys wearing black, often in situations that would've been pick-sixes.

Yep I wrote that in my comments yesterday, had 3-4 should have been picked throws.

That's another reason I am leery of Nelson, Palmer will force the ball in there and it's clear Nelson doesn't get that in those situations you HAVE to make sure the ball doesn't get picked, you can't give up or try and act to get a penalty. Break up the play.

 

[kerouac9]

Brees had the same issue... 1 was intercepted by R. Johnson, but he should've had a 2nd one. Then there was the pass that the blitzing honey badger knocked up into the air & Kareem Martin made a very close diving attempt to intercept. Pretty much every QB has a few throws in every game that could be intercepted. Luckily it worked out for us this time.

Um... I don't know how you can compare Martin not making what would've been a miraculous INT to Carson hitting four or five guys right in the hands.

In the second and third quarter, Palmer just completely lost the strike zone, and it's lucky that the Saints weren't able to cash in.

 

[Chopper0080]

I always like the write up, and I agree with most. Good wins always come with areas to improve which this one did.