Week 14 Snap Counts and Thoughts

[Chopper0080]

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[Chopper0080]

Seems pretty consistent here.

Our offensive rotation is squarely on 11 personnel and the rotation has gotten much tighter. Moore running 44% of snaps and Conner at 96% in a big game shows that the team will increase snap counts for primary offensive players in big games.

Similar mindset on defense. Fotu and Lawrence getting 20% snaps shows they are not viewed as big time contributors. This sort of stagnant progress isn't what you want to see but it is what it is at this point in time.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Seems pretty consistent here.

Our offensive rotation is squarely on 11 personnel and the rotation has gotten much tighter. Moore running 44% of snaps and Conner at 96% in a big game shows that the team will increase snap counts for primary offensive players in big games.

Similar mindset on defense. Fotu and Lawrence getting 20% snaps shows they are not viewed as big time contributors. This sort of stagnant progress isn't what you want to see but it is what it is at this point in time.

Thanks for your efforts this morning Chopper. Appreciate it.

Could I please say that, since this is the first game back from IR for Lawrence, it might be too early to draw conclusions about his ultimate usage.

 

[Chopper0080]

Thanks for your efforts this morning Chopper. Appreciate it.

Could I please say that, since this is the first game back from IR for Lawrence, it might be too early to draw conclusions about his ultimate usage.

It could be. Personally, I think it is a Vance thing. He prefers limited 10 year vets who know what to do but might not be able to do it vs more talented younger players who make mental mistakes yet also can make game changing plays.

Look at the onside kick. Tanner Vallejo/Jordan Hicks doesn't get to that ball. The bigger/faster athlete did and almost changed the game.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Possibly. I'd have to go back at look at Lawrence's usage before he was hurt, but I won't belabor the point.

Again, appreciate your snap count content. It's really good.

 

[Russ Smith]

The Conner thing is of course because Edmonds is out and Kliff doesn't trust Eno or Ward. And conner was brilliant last night I sure hope he's ok.

I kept saying we needed to abandon the run except in the red zone last night and just throw and or let Kyler run, their interior DL was just too good. But I think Kliff was right in keeping conner in he was huge in the pass game, he's a better blocker than either Eno or Ward so you can trust him in blitz pickup, but the Rams weren't blitzing they didn't have to so Kliff just used Conner as a receiver too

if he's healthy and Edmonds is back that % will get closer to 50/50 again and both guys will be better for it.

Very confused with Gardeck he's being used in coverage now I don't see any indication he's good at it but I have to assume he's shown something in practice because Vance keeps doing it?

 

[Chopper0080]

The Conner thing is of course because Edmonds is out and Kliff doesn't trust Eno or Ward. And conner was brilliant last night I sure hope he's ok.

I kept saying we needed to abandon the run except in the red zone last night and just throw and or let Kyler run, their interior DL was just too good. But I think Kliff was right in keeping conner in he was huge in the pass game, he's a better blocker than either Eno or Ward so you can trust him in blitz pickup, but the Rams weren't blitzing they didn't have to so Kliff just used Conner as a receiver too

if he's healthy and Edmonds is back that % will get closer to 50/50 again and both guys will be better for it.

Very confused with Gardeck he's being used in coverage now I don't see any indication he's good at it but I have to assume he's shown something in practice because Vance keeps doing it?

I think Vance is trying to go against tendency with this. Again, Vance annoys the crap out of me so I am biased but playing Vallejo and Gardeck over Zaven Collins tells you all you need to know about the DC and the scheme.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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Not a single defensive snap for Collins?!?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It could be. Personally, I think it is a Vance thing. He prefers limited 10 year vets who know what to do but might not be able to do it vs more talented younger players who make mental mistakes yet also can make game changing plays.

Look at the onside kick. Tanner Vallejo/Jordan Hicks doesn't get to that ball. The bigger/faster athlete did and almost changed the game.

I get your point, but using a play where Collins only read was “go get ball” is a terrible example. Like laughable attempt to support your argument.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think Vance is trying to go against tendency with this. Again, Vance annoys the crap out of me so I am biased but playing Vallejo and Gardeck over Zaven Collins tells you all you need to know about the DC and the scheme.

Or about Collins’ struggles with the mental part of the game. Again Simmons was playing much more at this juncture last year.

 

[Chopper0080]

I get your point, but using a play where Collins only read was “go get ball” is a terrible example. Like laughable attempt to support your argument.

For context when Vin Miller transitioned from Wade Phillips scheme in Denver to Vance's he commented how much more he had to think in Vance's scheme. Wade kept things simple which enabled him to play fast. Vance has carried that over to Arizona which has impacted Simmons and Collins. Vance's scheme places more emphasis on diagnosing and reacting than it does on seeing and attacking. It can cover more on a given play but causes players to play slower. The impact to young players is obvious and has little to do with their cognitive ability. In Vance's scheme, Vallejo's experience is more valuable than Collins athleticism.

 

[Chopper0080]

It's like when they talk about OCs shortening the play book or play calls when they have a young QB. They do that to make things easier on the QB so they can play faster and with more confidence. Other coaches choose not to and it can impact the time a young QB takes to get acclimated. Vance is like the OCs who don't adjust. He just doesn't adjust to make things easier for his young LBs. (I would include the defensive front but I am not as familiar with his shifts compared to other DCs)

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

For context when Vin Miller transitioned from Wade Phillips scheme in Denver to Vance's he commented how much more he had to think in Vance's scheme. Wade kept things simple which enabled him to play fast. Vance has carried that over to Arizona which has impacted Simmons and Collins. Vance's scheme places more emphasis on diagnosing and reacting than it does on seeing and attacking. It can cover more on a given play but causes players to play slower. The impact to young players is obvious and has little to do with their cognitive ability. In Vance's scheme, Vallejo's experience is more valuable than Collins athleticism.

I understand that. But I think you’re phrasing it wrong. It’s not that he undervalues Collins athleticism. I’m sure he’d rather put a superior athlete in the field. But if that superior athlete can’t grasp the defense effectively enough, he’s virtually useless - in fact he’s a detriment.

And I have no idea how you can claim that an inability to grasp assignment or to accurately read and react is anything other than cognitive ability. It is literally 100% cognitive ability.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's like when they talk about OCs shortening the play book or play calls when they have a young QB. They do that to make things easier on the QB so they can play faster and with more confidence. Other coaches choose not to and it can impact the time a young QB takes to get acclimated. Vance is like the OCs who don't adjust. He just doesn't adjust to make things easier for his young LBs. (I would include the defensive front but I am not as familiar with his shifts compared to other DCs)

Right. And they adjust bc the young guys aren’t grasping the entire playbook yet. Collins isn’t capable at present of grasping what he’s supposed to do.

 

[Chopper0080]

Right. And they adjust bc the young guys aren’t grasping the entire playbook yet. Collins isn’t capable at present of grasping what he’s supposed to do.

and I guess that is my point. Collins doesn't have the understanding of Vallejo and Vance is not going to adjust to help him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

and I guess that is my point. Collins doesn't have the understanding of Vallejo and Vance is not going to adjust to help him.

Right. That’s a lack of cognitive ability at present. Can it improve? Of course it can. Let’s hope it does. But it’s still something that’s a present negative. A real life negative.

 

[Chopper0080]

I understand that. But I think you’re phrasing it wrong. It’s not that he undervalues Collins athleticism. I’m sure he’d rather put a superior athlete in the field. But if that superior athlete can’t grasp the defense effectively enough, he’s virtually useless - in fact he’s a detriment.

And I have no idea how you can claim that an inability to grasp assignment or to accurately read and react is anything other than cognitive ability. It is literally 100% cognitive ability.

I am obviously phrasing it wrong. lol.

Vance's scheme is complicated. Complicated schemes are harder for younger players to learn. An even great player like Von Miller has said that Vance's scheme was complex and slowed him down and Von wasn't a rookie during that switch. So, young players like Simmons and Collins will struggle in this scheme but it has more to do with the complexity of the scheme than it has to do with their ability to learn. Vance has also proven that he will not adjust to accommodate them or ease their transition.

My point with the onside kick highlights two of my philosophical differences with Vance.

1- I would prefer my players to do less, faster, than more, slower.

2- Acclimating young players is vitally important to the success of NFL teams. Teams/coaches should adjust to make that transition easier vs putting it all on the 23 year old new millionaire who is beginning their first professional job ever.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I am obviously phrasing it wrong. lol.

Vance's scheme is complicated. Complicated schemes are harder for younger players to learn. An even great player like Von Miller has said that Vance's scheme was complex and slowed him down and Von wasn't a rookie during that switch. So, young players like Simmons and Collins will struggle in this scheme but it has more to do with the complexity of the scheme than it has to do with their ability to learn. Vance has also proven that he will not adjust to accommodate them or ease their transition.

My point with the onside kick highlights two of my philosophical differences with Vance.

1- I would prefer my players to do less, faster, than more, slower.

2- Acclimating young players is vitally important to the success of NFL teams. Teams/coaches should adjust to make that transition easier vs putting it all on the 23 year old new millionaire who is beginning their first professional job ever.

I think their ability to learn is relative and still a factor. Particularly when you consider that Simmons came into the same exact scenario and was seeing a significant amount of, and increasing, snaps at this juncture and Collins is going backward seeing ZERO defensive snaps last night. So complicated or not, Collins has failed to progress in his cognition of the scheme or read and react ability when compared to his direct predecessor in virtually the same exact scenario.

 

[Cardiac]

I think their ability to learn is relative and still a factor. Particularly when you consider that Simmons came into the same exact scenario and was seeing a significant amount of, and increasing, snaps at this juncture and Collins is going backward seeing ZERO defensive snaps last night. So complicated or not, Collins has failed to progress in his cognition of the scheme or read and react ability when compared to his direct predecessor in virtually the same exact scenario.

All possible or our vet backups are now fully understanding VJs scheme and playing faster and not making assignment mistakes like they were last year.

It does concern me that Collins is not getting playing time.

 

[Goodyear Card]

Cardinals’ Week 14 defensive snap counts and observations

Check out how the Cardinals' 58 defensive snaps were divided up in Week 14 against the Rams.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Goodyear Card]

Cardinals’ Week 14 offensive snap counts and observations

Check out how the Cardinals divided up their 78 offensive snaps against the Rams in Week 14.

sports.yahoo.com