Week 17 Snap Counts and Thoughts

[CardLogic]

Bend don't break philosophy is often hard to watch; it can be frustrating. After 16 games the Cardinals are #5 scoring defense; i.e. - points against; in the NFL! Points are what determine wins or losses. I'll take that and let Joseph worry about yards. . .

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Bend don't break philosophy is often hard to watch; it can be frustrating. After 16 games the Cardinals are #5 scoring defense; i.e. - points against; in the NFL! Points are what determine wins or losses. I'll take that and let Joseph worry about yards. . .

While it is hard to disagree with this, time of possession is a big stat that is often overlooked and is a major factor in games. If defenses cannot get off of the field because they cannot stop the run, it will make all facets of the game suffer.

 

[BigCardsFan]

Bad run defense is a symptom of the Steve Keim drafting philosphy.

His best Dline drafted in the last 8 years is Zach Allen.

 

[daves]

While it is hard to disagree with this, time of possession is a big stat that is often overlooked and is a major factor in games. If defenses cannot get off of the field because they cannot stop the run, it will make all facets of the game suffer.

How's that? Seems it would only make the defense suffer, getting tired from being unable to get off the field. And with a #5 ranking in points against, it seems they're not suffering too much. I can't see how it could possibly negatively impact special teams. I guess you could argue that by not getting off the field sooner, they're allowing the other team's defense to rest more, which gives the offense a tougher time? But of course, the offense gets to rest as well while the defense is on the field, so... .

BTW, the Cardinals currently rank 7th in most offensive time of possession, and their average offensive drive takes 2:56 vs. 2:48 for their opponent's average offensive drive.

...dave

 

[dreamcastrocks]

How's that? Seems it would only make the defense suffer, getting tired from being unable to get off the field. And with a #5 ranking in points against, it seems they're not suffering too much. I can't see how it could possibly negatively impact special teams. I guess you could argue that by not getting off the field sooner, they're allowing the other team's defense to rest more, which gives the offense a tougher time? But of course, the offense gets to rest as well while the defense is on the field, so... .

BTW, the Cardinals currently rank 7th in most offensive time of possession, and their average offensive drive takes 2:56 vs. 2:48 for their opponent's average offensive drive.

...dave

The offense doesn't get in a chance to get in a rhythm because they don't have as many possessions for example.

I also wasn't speaking about the Cardinals specifically. I was, and still am speaking in generalities.

 

[Stout]

How's that? Seems it would only make the defense suffer, getting tired from being unable to get off the field. And with a #5 ranking in points against, it seems they're not suffering too much. I can't see how it could possibly negatively impact special teams. I guess you could argue that by not getting off the field sooner, they're allowing the other team's defense to rest more, which gives the offense a tougher time? But of course, the offense gets to rest as well while the defense is on the field, so... .

BTW, the Cardinals currently rank 7th in most offensive time of possession, and their average offensive drive takes 2:56 vs. 2:48 for their opponent's average offensive drive.

...dave

This is very much a result of our offense holding the ball when they get it, more often than not. Our defense has given up some awful long (time wise) drives.

 

[daves]

This is very much a result of our offense holding the ball when they get it, more often than not. Our defense has given up some awful long (time wise) drives.

Yes, this was my point... the offense is responsible for how long they stay on the field, and is not much affected by how long the defense stays on the field. If the defense allows long drives, that primarily affects THEM, not "all facets of the game". And it may reduce the number of drives by BOTH teams.

Bottom line: If the bend-but-don't-break style of defense leads to longer drives by the opponent, but they don't end up scoring much, who cares? The bottom line is that the D is #5 in points allowed, which is pretty much all that matters.

...dave

 

[ajcardfan]

While it is hard to disagree with this, time of possession is a big stat that is often overlooked and is a major factor in games. If defenses cannot get off of the field because they cannot stop the run, it will make all facets of the game suffer.

True. But Dallas had 45 yards of rushing and were 3 of 11 on 3rd down.

We are not the effing steel curtain. But we have not had a terrible defense this year. Number 9 overall. Number 5 in scoring. We don't have to win with defense. But that certainly keeps us in every game but two where we just didn't show up on both sides of the ball.

 

[reebokalone2001]

It shouldn't be a shock that the game we stopped Zeke is the game you heard Budda's name called the most and Murphy had his worst game. This season, Vance has kept his S's deep. He has chosen to prevent the big pass play than adding Budda in the box to stop the run. Vs Dallas Vance turned Budda loose. You can argue that he did it almost too long but that what changed.

Stopping the run is pretty much gap integrity and tackling. That is why Vance plays Joe Walker over Zaven Collins inside. The problem is that the NFL is more of a passing league and it is tough to learn from the bench.

If the only reason Murphy was competent was that VJ put Baker deep to help, we probably should look for someone else to be our CB #1 or even #2.

 

[reebokalone2001]

Allen, Peters, Lawrence, Hicks.....there are quite a few decent run stoppers in this group.

I think the biggest issue is the damn scheme, not individual players. Vance is much more concerned (rightfully) about stopping the pass than the run.

Maybe that has something to do with him being a CB coach from the get-go.

 

[oaken1]

How's that? Seems it would only make the defense suffer, getting tired from being unable to get off the field. And with a #5 ranking in points against, it seems they're not suffering too much. I can't see how it could possibly negatively impact special teams. I guess you could argue that by not getting off the field sooner, they're allowing the other team's defense to rest more, which gives the offense a tougher time? But of course, the offense gets to rest as well while the defense is on the field, so... .

BTW, the Cardinals currently rank 7th in most offensive time of possession, and their average offensive drive takes 2:56 vs. 2:48 for their opponent's average offensive drive.

...dave

T.O.P. is important...we normally are not too bad... but during that three game skid we dropped a full 3 minutes per game down to 26 minutes...
the offense was giving the ball up too much with INT's and 3 and outs.... but at the same time,...our defense stopped getting turnovers,...so they werent getting the ball back until they got a stop.
just huge focus issues on both sides of the ball during that stretch.

whatever the mental issues are/were..... I really hope they got it beat before the playoffs start....otherwise we are one and done.

 

[Stout]

Yes, this was my point... the offense is responsible for how long they stay on the field, and is not much affected by how long the defense stays on the field. If the defense allows long drives, that primarily affects THEM, not "all facets of the game". And it may reduce the number of drives by BOTH teams.

Bottom line: If the bend-but-don't-break style of defense leads to longer drives by the opponent, but they don't end up scoring much, who cares? The bottom line is that the D is #5 in points allowed, which is pretty much all that matters.

...dave

Oaken hit the nail on the head. It works only when the offense bails it out. When our offense was struggling the defense had almost no chance bailing it out. Because the defense was built purposefully to be passive. Passive defense sucks to watch, and it cannot carry a team. Bend but don't break also puts the players in a certain mindset which is hard to break when you need to get aggressive. Can't always just flip the light switch.